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I was all aboard the DuckDuckGo train until a few weeks ago when they went nuts[0] and went to Google. Not that Google is any better, but if I'm going to get ce

I was all aboard the DuckDuckGo train until a few weeks ago when they went nuts[0] and went to Google. Not that Google is any better, but if I'm going to get censorship either way I might as well get a decent browsing experience. DuckDuckGo at this point provides 0 value. I haven't had the time to look for something else, I feel like I'll move away from Google in the next few weeks. It's not as easy on iPhones however as Safari forces you into using like ~5 hardcoded search engines and I can't find something to replace Safari with that doesn't suck. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30627892

Retric 4y ago
The point of search engines is to rank websites not simply to hold a giant index. As such down-ranking disinformation seems completely appropriate, what exactly is your concern?
- theandrewbailey 4y ago
  DDG's downranking was the result of politics, not of merit or technical reasons. Furthermore, what one person's 'disinformation' is another's lived experience. Hell, it might be the accepted truth tomorrow.
  - 8note 4y ago
    Merit is inherently political. The way you grant it is a function of your politics
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- somenameforme 4y ago
  "Breaking News: Ukraine ended its “combat mission” in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated, signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over." [1] In the article originally linked [2]: "Ukrainian officials said that evacuations from the Azovstal steel factory had begun. The military said that 264 service members, 53 of them “seriously injured,” had been taken by bus to areas controlled by Russian forces." That is how the NYTimes, alongside the rest of the corporate media - in unison, chose to describe the recent mass surrender of thousands of Ukrainian forces in Mauripol where the most intense fighting to date had occurred. That is literal and intentional disinformation intended to mislead readers. Of course don't expect the corporate media to get down-ranked anytime soon. Because "disinformation" isn't about disinformation, it's about publishing anything that runs contrary to the narrative of the day, a narrative that disturbingly often now ends up being completely false. [1] - https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1526336507430182912 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1526336507430182912 [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20220516233043/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/16/world/europe/azovstal-mariupol.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220516233043/https://www.nytim...
- allarm 4y ago
  Not op, but here’s my concerns and suggestions: 1. It’s a search engine, not a news aggregator with curated content. If there’s a lot of “disinformation” results on the top so be it, it’s the state of the current information space. Ones goal may be to specifically look for the propaganda articles for curiosity purposes. 2. It probably make sense to use something like google does with pictures - be able to un-filter the “disinformation” links by implicitly allowing it. Maybe marking the results with warning tags/labels would help as well. 3. If there’s such filter exists it would make sense to filter not only the specific country news, but all of them. 4. It’s difficult to me to believe that they are able to do this filtering/downranking right. It’s very difficult task to be objective in absence of trusted sources (except the 2+2=5 situations, probably).
babypuncher 4y ago
I think you misunderstand the purpose of a search engine. They would be borderline worthless if they did not make any attempt to sort results by relevance and quality. It is why SEO is such a big industry, because everyone and their mother wants to convince Google that their website is both high quality and highly relevant for a given search term.
- someotherperson 4y ago
  Relevance and quality !== political pandering. This is the exact Tweet: > Like so many others I am sickened by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create. #StandWithUkraine > At DuckDuckGo, we've been rolling out search updates that down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation How about Chinese disinformation? Saudi disinformation? WaPo/CNN/Fox News disinformation? How about Australian or Indonesian disinformation? This sort of selective attack is exclusively political and has nothing to do with improving a search experience. It is one thing to downrank spam, it's a whole other thing to down rank things based on the political views of the CEO.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    I would hope that they de-prioritize all domains known to be tied to nefarious state-sponsored misinformation. However the fact that you lump in reputable news sources like the Washington Post with Kremlin-sponsored blogspam really hurts your argument that DDG is not playing fair here.
    - someotherperson 4y ago
      WaPo is reputable to you. Until the DDG CEO decides that it leans too left or that its headlines are too controversial, and because it isn't neutral enough it should be downranked in favor of centrist publications.
richardsocher 4y ago
For mobile iOS, we've have gotten very positive feedback on the you.com iOS app that's both browser and search: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/you-com-search-and-browser/id1600782099 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/you-com-search-and-browser/id1... Let me know what you think, we're always trying to improve it and still in beta.
- someotherperson 4y ago
  Hi, your FAQ page is difficult to use from within your browser. It also appears like I’m forced to use You as the search engine and can’t change it - is that right?
  - richardsocher 4y ago
    Thanks for the feedback. We should simplify the mobile FAQ layout to make it easier to read. You are right, our current browser+search app supports our search engine. We should allow users to change it. I'll add it to our backlog!

Retric 4y ago

The point of search engines is to rank websites not simply to hold a giant index. As such down-ranking disinformation seems completely appropriate, what exactly is your concern?

theandrewbailey 4y ago
DDG's downranking was the result of politics, not of merit or technical reasons. Furthermore, what one person's 'disinformation' is another's lived experience. Hell, it might be the accepted truth tomorrow.
- 8note 4y ago
  Merit is inherently political. The way you grant it is a function of your politics
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
somenameforme 4y ago
"Breaking News: Ukraine ended its “combat mission” in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated, signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over." [1] In the article originally linked [2]: "Ukrainian officials said that evacuations from the Azovstal steel factory had begun. The military said that 264 service members, 53 of them “seriously injured,” had been taken by bus to areas controlled by Russian forces." That is how the NYTimes, alongside the rest of the corporate media - in unison, chose to describe the recent mass surrender of thousands of Ukrainian forces in Mauripol where the most intense fighting to date had occurred. That is literal and intentional disinformation intended to mislead readers. Of course don't expect the corporate media to get down-ranked anytime soon. Because "disinformation" isn't about disinformation, it's about publishing anything that runs contrary to the narrative of the day, a narrative that disturbingly often now ends up being completely false. [1] - https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1526336507430182912 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1526336507430182912 [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20220516233043/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/16/world/europe/azovstal-mariupol.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220516233043/https://www.nytim...
allarm 4y ago
Not op, but here’s my concerns and suggestions: 1. It’s a search engine, not a news aggregator with curated content. If there’s a lot of “disinformation” results on the top so be it, it’s the state of the current information space. Ones goal may be to specifically look for the propaganda articles for curiosity purposes. 2. It probably make sense to use something like google does with pictures - be able to un-filter the “disinformation” links by implicitly allowing it. Maybe marking the results with warning tags/labels would help as well. 3. If there’s such filter exists it would make sense to filter not only the specific country news, but all of them. 4. It’s difficult to me to believe that they are able to do this filtering/downranking right. It’s very difficult task to be objective in absence of trusted sources (except the 2+2=5 situations, probably).

babypuncher 4y ago

I think you misunderstand the purpose of a search engine. They would be borderline worthless if they did not make any attempt to sort results by relevance and quality. It is why SEO is such a big industry, because everyone and their mother wants to convince Google that their website is both high quality and highly relevant for a given search term.

someotherperson 4y ago
Relevance and quality !== political pandering. This is the exact Tweet: > Like so many others I am sickened by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create. #StandWithUkraine > At DuckDuckGo, we've been rolling out search updates that down-rank sites associated with Russian disinformation How about Chinese disinformation? Saudi disinformation? WaPo/CNN/Fox News disinformation? How about Australian or Indonesian disinformation? This sort of selective attack is exclusively political and has nothing to do with improving a search experience. It is one thing to downrank spam, it's a whole other thing to down rank things based on the political views of the CEO.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I would hope that they de-prioritize all domains known to be tied to nefarious state-sponsored misinformation. However the fact that you lump in reputable news sources like the Washington Post with Kremlin-sponsored blogspam really hurts your argument that DDG is not playing fair here.
  - someotherperson 4y ago
    WaPo is reputable to you. Until the DDG CEO decides that it leans too left or that its headlines are too controversial, and because it isn't neutral enough it should be downranked in favor of centrist publications.

richardsocher 4y ago

For mobile iOS, we've have gotten very positive feedback on the you.com iOS app that's both browser and search: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/you-com-search-and-browser/id1600782099 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/you-com-search-and-browser/id1... Let me know what you think, we're always trying to improve it and still in beta.

someotherperson 4y ago
Hi, your FAQ page is difficult to use from within your browser. It also appears like I’m forced to use You as the search engine and can’t change it - is that right?
- richardsocher 4y ago
  Thanks for the feedback. We should simplify the mobile FAQ layout to make it easier to read. You are right, our current browser+search app supports our search engine. We should allow users to change it. I'll add it to our backlog!