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America and Americans have demonstrably done absolutely nothing for decades about what an outsider sees as a severe problem that must be fixed at all costs. If

by grecy 4y ago

America and Americans have demonstrably done absolutely nothing for decades about what an outsider sees as a severe problem that must be fixed at all costs. If America and Americans are not doing anything to fix the problem, they clearly can't think it's much of a problem.

mulmen 4y ago
This is an incredibly ignorant and dismissive comment that is demonstrably false. My city has passed laws in direct response to local school shootings. The state of Idaho has enacted gun control laws that address specific shootings there. There are anti-gun demonstrations. The surviving Sandy Hook parents have made groundbreaking progress toward holding gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their products. The examples are not hard to find. This is a complex issue. We are trying. It is hard. Your dismissive comment isn't fair and it certainly isn't constructive or necessary.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  No, but, your response is exactly what I think is wrong with the whole response. > My city has passed laws in direct response to local school shootings. School shootings, plural. In your city? > The state of Idaho has enacted gun control laws that address specific shootings there. Plural again. > There are anti-gun demonstrations. Plural. And apparently demonstrations are necessary to convince some people it’s a good idea. > The surviving Sandy Hook parents have made groundbreaking progress toward holding gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their products. You can’t hold gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their product, that’s literally what they’re made for. I think it took only a single incident like this in any civilized country to have the entire national/federal government to go “you know what, lets ban/severely restrict this shit”. The US is the only country I know of that has literally hundreds of these incidents, and still hasn’t done anything significant. Hell, maybe it won’t work, I’m open to that possibility, but doing anything is better than doing nothing. By doing nothing you implicitly indicate that this state of affairs is fine. It’s just incredibly frustrating to see half of the responses to these kinds of threads always being “oh no, muh guns”, instead of “lets fix something”.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    > No, but, your response is exactly what I think is wrong with the whole response. I do not speak for any other commenter and I stand by my own comments in this subthread. > School shootings, plural. In your city? In this case I think it was one incident specifically. The tax on ammo and gun sales to fund gun violence research was as I recall a direct response to the Seattle Pacific University shooting. I may be drawing more of a connection there than lawmakers would claim. But the timing was consistent and the event helped push it through. > Plural again. Yes, there have been multiple mass shootings in Moscow, Idaho alone. The state board of education passed specific gun control laws to attempt to limit harm within their jurisdiction. > Plural. And apparently demonstrations are necessary to convince some people it’s a good idea. Yes, that's typically how democracy works and one of the reasons we have free expression. > You can’t hold gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their product, that’s literally what they’re made for. Actually we can hold any manufacturer liable for the harm caused by their products, even if that harm is the stated purpose. Also, that's not the only purpose of these weapons. They do have viable uses for both hunting and recreation. Also, I'm not sure that Remington did claim that their guns are intended to kill people. In any case the manufacturers can be held liable. > I think it took only a single incident like this in any civilized country to have the entire national/federal government to go “you know what, lets ban/severely restrict this shit”. This is a very specific definition of civilized that suits your opinion. No true Scotsman, etc. The US Federal Government does not have absolute authority to enact its will on Americans. This is very deliberate and fundamental to our society. This does not make us powerless. Quite the opposite. California is able to be more progressive in their gun laws than they could be in a system with absolute federal power. > The US is the only country I know of that has literally hundreds of these incidents, and still hasn’t done anything significant. As I mentioned previously there are examples of significant action that has been taken, even recently. While our gun laws are not the most strict in the world they do exist and they are strengthening. > Hell, maybe it won’t work, I’m open to that possibility, but doing anything is better than doing nothing. By doing nothing you implicitly indicate that this state of affairs is fine. Well as I have now said repeatedly, we are doing something. Many somethings in fact. So your assertion that Americans are fine with this state of affairs is clearly false. This gets to the heart of what I have said here. I would hope nobody is told they don't care about the tragedy they are facing. > It’s just incredibly frustrating to see half of the responses to these kinds of threads always being “oh no, muh guns”, instead of “lets fix something”. I don't see how this line is relevant to anything I have said here. Nor how it justifies your replies.
- MrMan 4y ago
  we are not trying
- grecy 4y ago
  > This is a complex issue. We are trying. It is hard. Your dismissive comment isn't fair and it certainly isn't constructive or necessary. No. It isn't. It's a simple problem that every other developed country has solved and they did it basically overnight decades ago. Stop making excuses and start fixing the problem.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    > It's a simple problem that every other developed country has solved and they did it basically overnight decades ago. If you read the rest of this thread you would know this isn't true. You are posting disgusting, ignorant comments about a real problem that people (Americans included, we are people too) are working hard every day to solve. And those people are making real progress. I'm confident and hopeful that in my lifetime I will see the Second Amendment repealed.
    - grecy 4y ago
      > You are posting disgusting, ignorant comments about a real problem It's incredible you're making it about my comments. It has nothing to do with me. Focus on the problem, and fixing it, not the people pointing out there is a problem.
      - mulmen 4y ago
        Everyone knows there is a problem. What do you think your trolling is achieving here?

by grecy 4y ago

mulmen 4y ago

This is an incredibly ignorant and dismissive comment that is demonstrably false. My city has passed laws in direct response to local school shootings. The state of Idaho has enacted gun control laws that address specific shootings there. There are anti-gun demonstrations. The surviving Sandy Hook parents have made groundbreaking progress toward holding gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their products. The examples are not hard to find. This is a complex issue. We are trying. It is hard. Your dismissive comment isn't fair and it certainly isn't constructive or necessary.

Aeolun 4y ago
No, but, your response is exactly what I think is wrong with the whole response. > My city has passed laws in direct response to local school shootings. School shootings, plural. In your city? > The state of Idaho has enacted gun control laws that address specific shootings there. Plural again. > There are anti-gun demonstrations. Plural. And apparently demonstrations are necessary to convince some people it’s a good idea. > The surviving Sandy Hook parents have made groundbreaking progress toward holding gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their products. You can’t hold gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their product, that’s literally what they’re made for. I think it took only a single incident like this in any civilized country to have the entire national/federal government to go “you know what, lets ban/severely restrict this shit”. The US is the only country I know of that has literally hundreds of these incidents, and still hasn’t done anything significant. Hell, maybe it won’t work, I’m open to that possibility, but doing anything is better than doing nothing. By doing nothing you implicitly indicate that this state of affairs is fine. It’s just incredibly frustrating to see half of the responses to these kinds of threads always being “oh no, muh guns”, instead of “lets fix something”.
- mulmen 4y ago
  > No, but, your response is exactly what I think is wrong with the whole response. I do not speak for any other commenter and I stand by my own comments in this subthread. > School shootings, plural. In your city? In this case I think it was one incident specifically. The tax on ammo and gun sales to fund gun violence research was as I recall a direct response to the Seattle Pacific University shooting. I may be drawing more of a connection there than lawmakers would claim. But the timing was consistent and the event helped push it through. > Plural again. Yes, there have been multiple mass shootings in Moscow, Idaho alone. The state board of education passed specific gun control laws to attempt to limit harm within their jurisdiction. > Plural. And apparently demonstrations are necessary to convince some people it’s a good idea. Yes, that's typically how democracy works and one of the reasons we have free expression. > You can’t hold gunmakers liable for deaths caused by their product, that’s literally what they’re made for. Actually we can hold any manufacturer liable for the harm caused by their products, even if that harm is the stated purpose. Also, that's not the only purpose of these weapons. They do have viable uses for both hunting and recreation. Also, I'm not sure that Remington did claim that their guns are intended to kill people. In any case the manufacturers can be held liable. > I think it took only a single incident like this in any civilized country to have the entire national/federal government to go “you know what, lets ban/severely restrict this shit”. This is a very specific definition of civilized that suits your opinion. No true Scotsman, etc. The US Federal Government does not have absolute authority to enact its will on Americans. This is very deliberate and fundamental to our society. This does not make us powerless. Quite the opposite. California is able to be more progressive in their gun laws than they could be in a system with absolute federal power. > The US is the only country I know of that has literally hundreds of these incidents, and still hasn’t done anything significant. As I mentioned previously there are examples of significant action that has been taken, even recently. While our gun laws are not the most strict in the world they do exist and they are strengthening. > Hell, maybe it won’t work, I’m open to that possibility, but doing anything is better than doing nothing. By doing nothing you implicitly indicate that this state of affairs is fine. Well as I have now said repeatedly, we are doing something. Many somethings in fact. So your assertion that Americans are fine with this state of affairs is clearly false. This gets to the heart of what I have said here. I would hope nobody is told they don't care about the tragedy they are facing. > It’s just incredibly frustrating to see half of the responses to these kinds of threads always being “oh no, muh guns”, instead of “lets fix something”. I don't see how this line is relevant to anything I have said here. Nor how it justifies your replies.
MrMan 4y ago
we are not trying
grecy 4y ago
> This is a complex issue. We are trying. It is hard. Your dismissive comment isn't fair and it certainly isn't constructive or necessary. No. It isn't. It's a simple problem that every other developed country has solved and they did it basically overnight decades ago. Stop making excuses and start fixing the problem.
- mulmen 4y ago
  > It's a simple problem that every other developed country has solved and they did it basically overnight decades ago. If you read the rest of this thread you would know this isn't true. You are posting disgusting, ignorant comments about a real problem that people (Americans included, we are people too) are working hard every day to solve. And those people are making real progress. I'm confident and hopeful that in my lifetime I will see the Second Amendment repealed.
  - grecy 4y ago
    > You are posting disgusting, ignorant comments about a real problem It's incredible you're making it about my comments. It has nothing to do with me. Focus on the problem, and fixing it, not the people pointing out there is a problem.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      Everyone knows there is a problem. What do you think your trolling is achieving here?