3 ms·

> too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility Banning guns is not the answer. Insti

> too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility Banning guns is not the answer. Instilling that civic responsibility is - the benefits are astronomical.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Supermancho 4y ago
It's believed that the US has 120 guns per 100 people and there are 7 guns per 100 people in Israel[1]. Israel has 10% of the number of gun-related-deaths (reported) that the US has, with some VERY heavy gun control laws - which routinely gets more strict[2]. What's interesting is that the number of people who take a shot at certain political figures is very low in the US, despite politics being so deeply concerning to so many adults. This feels like an adolescent/young-adult problem that's come to light. If there was a force like the Secret Service/FBI that cracked down on a WHIFF of threatening schools and the media coverage was blacked out for a month, we might see progress without getting mired in a gun control debate that won't be solved in our lifetime. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... [2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-s-new-public-security-minister-weighs-tightening-gun-license-applications-1.10023170?v=1635953170971 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-s-new-pu...
xvector 4y ago
Do you see school shootings happening in Europe? Banning guns is clearly the answer. There will always be psychopaths, and these people will not care about "civic responsibility." The only thing that can be done is to restrict their access to guns.
- quantumwannabe 4y ago
  Yes. There are many school shootings in Europe. Here are several from recent years (not an exhaustive list): Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_school_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_school_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg_shooting Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting France: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39292755 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39292755 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_and_Montauban_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_and_Montauban_shootin... Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_school_killing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_school_killing Estonia: https://www.wsj.com/articles/estonia-school-shooting-leaves-teacher-dead-1414424788 https://www.wsj.com/articles/estonia-school-shooting-leaves-... Greece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAED_Vocational_College_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAED_Vocational_College_shooti... Hungary: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8380822.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8380822.stm Poland: https://tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english/poland-two-wounded-including-11-year-old-in-school-shooting-ra939570-2311700 https://tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english/poland-two-wounded-in... Netherlands: https://archive.ph/c6wva https://archive.ph/c6wva Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Polytechnic_College_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Polytechnic_College_mass... Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm_State_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm_State_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moscow_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moscow_school_shooting https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/three-wounded-in-college-shooting-incident-as-student-gunman-shouts-heil-hitler-before-killing-himself/ https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/three-wounded-in... Europe also has had the two deadliest mass shootings of all time: Bataclan (2015, 130 deaths) and Oslo (2011, 77 deaths).
  - xvector 4y ago
    There are orders of magnitude more in the US.
    - quantumwannabe 4y ago
      Please don't move the goalposts. You said: >Do you see school shootings happening in Europe? Implying that school shootings don't happen in Europe. I then listed 20 school shootings that have occurred in Europe over the last 20 years and your response is to claim that there are "orders of magnitude more [school shootings] in the US". "Orders" implies that there is at least 100 times more (as a single order is 10 times more) school shootings in the US than in Europe. That is also not true, even counting events such as "Two boys, aged 11 and 14-years-old were shot in the parking lot of the Searles Elementary School around 1 am" and "An individual who was not a student accidentally shot himself in the leg in the parking lot of Glades Central High School" as school shootings, which Wikipedia and most media do. Even with all the stat padding, there are have only been 365 "school shootings" in the US over the last 22 years (i.e. a single order of magnitude more than my partial list of European school shootings); the actual number of school shootings by the common definition is in the same ballpark as Europe.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Supermancho 4y ago

It's believed that the US has 120 guns per 100 people and there are 7 guns per 100 people in Israel[1]. Israel has 10% of the number of gun-related-deaths (reported) that the US has, with some VERY heavy gun control laws - which routinely gets more strict[2]. What's interesting is that the number of people who take a shot at certain political figures is very low in the US, despite politics being so deeply concerning to so many adults. This feels like an adolescent/young-adult problem that's come to light. If there was a force like the Secret Service/FBI that cracked down on a WHIFF of threatening schools and the media coverage was blacked out for a month, we might see progress without getting mired in a gun control debate that won't be solved in our lifetime. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... [2] https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-s-new-public-security-minister-weighs-tightening-gun-license-applications-1.10023170?v=1635953170971 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-s-new-pu...

xvector 4y ago

Do you see school shootings happening in Europe? Banning guns is clearly the answer. There will always be psychopaths, and these people will not care about "civic responsibility." The only thing that can be done is to restrict their access to guns.

quantumwannabe 4y ago
Yes. There are many school shootings in Europe. Here are several from recent years (not an exhaustive list): Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_school_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_school_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg_shooting Finland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting France: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39292755 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39292755 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_and_Montauban_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_and_Montauban_shootin... Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_school_killing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcelona_school_killing Estonia: https://www.wsj.com/articles/estonia-school-shooting-leaves-teacher-dead-1414424788 https://www.wsj.com/articles/estonia-school-shooting-leaves-... Greece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAED_Vocational_College_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAED_Vocational_College_shooti... Hungary: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8380822.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8380822.stm Poland: https://tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english/poland-two-wounded-including-11-year-old-in-school-shooting-ra939570-2311700 https://tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english/poland-two-wounded-in... Netherlands: https://archive.ph/c6wva https://archive.ph/c6wva Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Polytechnic_College_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Polytechnic_College_mass... Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm_State_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm_State_University_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazan_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moscow_school_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Moscow_school_shooting https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/three-wounded-in-college-shooting-incident-as-student-gunman-shouts-heil-hitler-before-killing-himself/ https://siberiantimes.com/other/others/news/three-wounded-in... Europe also has had the two deadliest mass shootings of all time: Bataclan (2015, 130 deaths) and Oslo (2011, 77 deaths).
- xvector 4y ago
  There are orders of magnitude more in the US.
  - quantumwannabe 4y ago
    Please don't move the goalposts. You said: >Do you see school shootings happening in Europe? Implying that school shootings don't happen in Europe. I then listed 20 school shootings that have occurred in Europe over the last 20 years and your response is to claim that there are "orders of magnitude more [school shootings] in the US". "Orders" implies that there is at least 100 times more (as a single order is 10 times more) school shootings in the US than in Europe. That is also not true, even counting events such as "Two boys, aged 11 and 14-years-old were shot in the parking lot of the Searles Elementary School around 1 am" and "An individual who was not a student accidentally shot himself in the leg in the parking lot of Glades Central High School" as school shootings, which Wikipedia and most media do. Even with all the stat padding, there are have only been 365 "school shootings" in the US over the last 22 years (i.e. a single order of magnitude more than my partial list of European school shootings); the actual number of school shootings by the common definition is in the same ballpark as Europe.