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> What is allows for is: cost cutting. Not having to install a mask, a button, wire harness and QA everything is a massive manufacturing cost saving. It speeds

> What is allows for is: cost cutting. Not having to install a mask, a button, wire harness and QA everything is a massive manufacturing cost saving. It speeds up production and lowers the amount of components that need to be sourced, installed and later made available for replacement as part of a service. I tend to have the same opinion, but at the same time I'm not convinced: - I bought 1 year ago a new car for 80k $ => that's not cheap and in my opinion putting 4 extra buttons (up/down) or 2 extra knobs to control the temperature of the two front seats wouldn't have been an incredible engineering challenge that would have added hundreds of $ to the cost (which was anyway high). - we have ~100 buttons that all work reliably on our keyboards, which are connected to our PCs/notebooks with just a single cable => I admit that in a car there is the extra challenge of temperature variance (car parked in the Sahara or somewhere in Iceland), but I cannot think that that's an engineering wonder (worked fine during the last 100 years). Therefore maybe the trend is driven by designers: make everything shiny & slick, risk of having the own work thrown into the trash when taking a step back to do usability tests vs. physical controls so let's just forget about that.

joe_the_user 4y ago
we have ~100 buttons that all work reliably on our keyboards, which are connected to our PCs/notebooks with just a single cable => I admit that in a car there is the extra challenge of temperature variance I wanted to mention that. Sure, the way auto electronics were traditionally installed was expensive but a keyboard is $20 by itself, a midi music keyboard designed for wear and having buttons and knobs is ~$150. A modular system of instruments and controls that fits around the steering wheel and has a single cable coming out could not be that expensive. Changing to something like would require a lot of adjustment of electronics processes - different chips and voltages to allow the modularity and single cable, I would guess. But touch-screens also need this I would imagine.
- StillBored 4y ago
  The US backup camera fiasco was informative, because IIRC one of the domestic auto manufactures testified it was going to add $800 or some such to the price of a car (can't find a link about it). Which back then was still like 3x or so the cost of an aftermarket system. The law passed anyway, and for years its remained a high priced option, until there were lawsuits about the feds failing to enforce the law and require all cars to have them. There are various links on the web about how even the NHTSA estimated it would be ~$40 added to the price of a new car, something many found high considering the costs of the cameras and how many cars already had LCDs that could be repurposed. Although I suspect the addition of backup cameras has given automakers excuses when it comes to rear visibility.

joe_the_user 4y ago

we have ~100 buttons that all work reliably on our keyboards, which are connected to our PCs/notebooks with just a single cable => I admit that in a car there is the extra challenge of temperature variance I wanted to mention that. Sure, the way auto electronics were traditionally installed was expensive but a keyboard is $20 by itself, a midi music keyboard designed for wear and having buttons and knobs is ~$150. A modular system of instruments and controls that fits around the steering wheel and has a single cable coming out could not be that expensive. Changing to something like would require a lot of adjustment of electronics processes - different chips and voltages to allow the modularity and single cable, I would guess. But touch-screens also need this I would imagine.

StillBored 4y ago
The US backup camera fiasco was informative, because IIRC one of the domestic auto manufactures testified it was going to add $800 or some such to the price of a car (can't find a link about it). Which back then was still like 3x or so the cost of an aftermarket system. The law passed anyway, and for years its remained a high priced option, until there were lawsuits about the feds failing to enforce the law and require all cars to have them. There are various links on the web about how even the NHTSA estimated it would be ~$40 added to the price of a new car, something many found high considering the costs of the cameras and how many cars already had LCDs that could be repurposed. Although I suspect the addition of backup cameras has given automakers excuses when it comes to rear visibility.