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Cookie banner has ruined the whole web. - Does not protect people (99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them) - Cost money to company (so cost

by fbn79 4y ago

Cookie banner has ruined the whole web. - Does not protect people (99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them) - Cost money to company (so cost to customers). A simpler browser extension where you manage your preference once far all (default) with the possibility to personilize x site (think like you do for camera permission) would have solved the problem in a real way and without all the hussle.

croon 4y ago
> Cookie banner has ruined the whole web. No, all websites that have cookie banners do so because they were already ruining the web, the only thing you can blame GDPR for in that regard is visualizing it.
Radim 4y ago
That's something the article should have mentioned: 4 years on, and people still think GDPR is about cookies – and even responsible for the intrusive consent pop-ups! It is a testament to the power of the adtech giants and all the other shitty shady businesses, how they managed to twist the narrative. And that's on HN, a presumably tech savvy audience. What chance does the "normal" population stand?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Lots of people on HN work for advertising companies such as Google, Facebook etc, tech savvy or not has little to do with it.
  - GiorgioG 4y ago
    I don't work for an adtech company and I think GDPR has made the web demonstrably worse for everyone. I'd rather void EU clients altogether than put up a cookie banner/popup.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      1. GDPR isn't about cookies, or cookie banners 2. It's not GDPR that made it worse but ad-tech and similar leeches who want to continue vacuuming up all available data without reprecussions
    - adhesive_wombat 4y ago
      Here's a genius hack around the GDPR: don't abuse people's data and you don't need a banner at all!
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      If that is your response then you haven't begun to understand the reason why the GDPR exists in the first place. You don't have to put up a cookie banner/popup. Have a look at my website: jacquesmattheij.com , no banner, no popup and yet 100% GDPR compliant.
titaniczero 4y ago
GDPR is about personal data, not just cookies. I agree they should have thought better of that cookie law, which is a different one. But GDPR really was and is on point.
happymellon 4y ago
And if they did that it would also make them GDPR compliant. They chose to put up cookie banners as a way of making to seem like the people making the laws told them to do it. > 99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them This is silly. The rule is that people are allowed to opt 𝚘̶𝚞̶𝚝̶ in to tracking. Just because some companies use cookies for this doesn't mean that cookies are banned. If you are using cookies to store your website's settings then that is perfectly fine.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  Opting-in should be a client feature, not a website feature... make browsers block cookies by default, and then add a button next to the title bar to accept cookies for this webpage (for them to remember the login).
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    GDPR is not just about cookies. In fact cookies are already next-to-useless for tracking because modern browsers have countermeasures against it (which unfortunately does hinder legitimate usage like cross-domain SSO). The GDPR is about data processing consent as a whole, regardless of how the data was collected. It includes data that you can’t withhold such as your IP address, browser fingerprint, etc.
  - happymellon 4y ago
    Other people tracking you has nothing to do with the browser. They need explicit permission to track you. The browser doing absolutely nothing is what most people want. The website can set whatever cookies it wants for the activity of the website itself.
- TamDenholm 4y ago
  > The rule is that people are allowed to opt out of tracking Sorry to correct you, but the rule is that people are allowed to opt-in to tracking. This fundamental misunderstanding is kinda the problem...
  - 4y ago
martin_a 4y ago
Cookie banners just make visible how hard you and your private data have been fucked all over the internet in all the years. It creates visibility where there was none.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Indeed, kind of like the graphic disease labels on cigarette packs. It doesn't directly stop people smoking, but it does raise awareness of what can happen.
gspr 4y ago
> Does not protect people (99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them) Fake cookie banners are illegal under the GDPR. Seriously, in what other aspects of life do people respond to terrible enforcement by saying the law is the problem? (Of course there exists a bunch of stupid laws that are also terribly enforced, but here the objective of the GDPR is not stupid – it's merely a matter of terrible enforcement) > Cost money to company (so cost to customers) Most regulation comes with a cost. The fact that this does, too, is kinda meaningless on its own. Food safety regulation comes at a cost – that, in itself, is not an argument against such regulation. > A simpler browser extension where you manage your preference once far all (default) with the possibility to personilize x site (think like you do for camera permission) would have solved the problem in a real way and without all the hussle. Are you seriously arguing that legislation to enforce such privacy standardization would be easier to enforce than the current GDPR? By all means, what you're proposing sounds great – better than the GDPR even – but massively harder to do.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > in what other aspects of life do people respond to terrible enforcement by saying the law is the problem? Every other case where the law is widely broken and selectively enforced? From low-level traffic offenses to drug legalization.
nikeee 4y ago
> 99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them Note that cookies that are technically required to serve the site don't need a cookie banner. This is something many people get wrong. Other people shift to LocalStorage instead. But the actual legislation does not distinguish between cookies and local storage (and similar techniques). Also, there must be a "reject all" button which should appear visually equivalent to the "accept all" button. Rejecting all has to be as easy as accepting all. Additional clicks are not legal.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  Another thing that is often ignored is that you have to wait for someone to consent before you give them cookies. Many sites just create the cookies when you open the page, then throw the banner, then whether you accept or reject, it makes no difference. Talk about compliance theater.
solarkraft 4y ago
> 99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them That's illegal, then.
gpderetta 4y ago
GDPR notices are obnoxious, but they are not the only source of popups, not even the most annoying (most of them are converging to standard patterns, so you can dismiss them quickly). These days many sites have a constant barrage of all kind of popups, browser notifications requests, registration nags, adverts and so on, often on a delayed trigger.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  > GDPR notices are obnoxious, They're not obnoxious because GDPR made them that way, they're obnoxious because companies who think they have a right to unfettered and undisclosed abuse of people's data (because that's what they were used to) are trying to pretend that the law is the problem and not their malfeasance. A fully compliant GDPR banner has two buttons, of equal prominence: reject all, and accept all. That's it. Any obnoxiousness is on thy implementor, and it's likely illegal. Another fully compliant solution is to only collect the data you actual need and then you don't even need a banner at all.
  - gpderetta 4y ago
    Of course! I'm just pointing out that getting rid of GDPR wouldn't get rid of the popups.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
corrral 4y ago
> Cost money to company (so cost to customers) You can't necessarily raise prices just because your costs go up.
nannePOPI 4y ago

by fbn79 4y ago

croon 4y ago

> Cookie banner has ruined the whole web. No, all websites that have cookie banners do so because they were already ruining the web, the only thing you can blame GDPR for in that regard is visualizing it.

Radim 4y ago

That's something the article should have mentioned: 4 years on, and people still think GDPR is about cookies – and even responsible for the intrusive consent pop-ups! It is a testament to the power of the adtech giants and all the other shitty shady businesses, how they managed to twist the narrative. And that's on HN, a presumably tech savvy audience. What chance does the "normal" population stand?

jacquesm 4y ago
Lots of people on HN work for advertising companies such as Google, Facebook etc, tech savvy or not has little to do with it.
- GiorgioG 4y ago
  I don't work for an adtech company and I think GDPR has made the web demonstrably worse for everyone. I'd rather void EU clients altogether than put up a cookie banner/popup.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    1. GDPR isn't about cookies, or cookie banners 2. It's not GDPR that made it worse but ad-tech and similar leeches who want to continue vacuuming up all available data without reprecussions
  - adhesive_wombat 4y ago
    Here's a genius hack around the GDPR: don't abuse people's data and you don't need a banner at all!
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    If that is your response then you haven't begun to understand the reason why the GDPR exists in the first place. You don't have to put up a cookie banner/popup. Have a look at my website: jacquesmattheij.com , no banner, no popup and yet 100% GDPR compliant.

titaniczero 4y ago

GDPR is about personal data, not just cookies. I agree they should have thought better of that cookie law, which is a different one. But GDPR really was and is on point.

happymellon 4y ago

And if they did that it would also make them GDPR compliant. They chose to put up cookie banners as a way of making to seem like the people making the laws told them to do it. > 99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them This is silly. The rule is that people are allowed to opt 𝚘̶𝚞̶𝚝̶ in to tracking. Just because some companies use cookies for this doesn't mean that cookies are banned. If you are using cookies to store your website's settings then that is perfectly fine.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
Opting-in should be a client feature, not a website feature... make browsers block cookies by default, and then add a button next to the title bar to accept cookies for this webpage (for them to remember the login).
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  GDPR is not just about cookies. In fact cookies are already next-to-useless for tracking because modern browsers have countermeasures against it (which unfortunately does hinder legitimate usage like cross-domain SSO). The GDPR is about data processing consent as a whole, regardless of how the data was collected. It includes data that you can’t withhold such as your IP address, browser fingerprint, etc.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Other people tracking you has nothing to do with the browser. They need explicit permission to track you. The browser doing absolutely nothing is what most people want. The website can set whatever cookies it wants for the activity of the website itself.
TamDenholm 4y ago
> The rule is that people are allowed to opt out of tracking Sorry to correct you, but the rule is that people are allowed to opt-in to tracking. This fundamental misunderstanding is kinda the problem...
- 4y ago

martin_a 4y ago

Cookie banners just make visible how hard you and your private data have been fucked all over the internet in all the years. It creates visibility where there was none.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Indeed, kind of like the graphic disease labels on cigarette packs. It doesn't directly stop people smoking, but it does raise awareness of what can happen.

gspr 4y ago

> Does not protect people (99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them) Fake cookie banners are illegal under the GDPR. Seriously, in what other aspects of life do people respond to terrible enforcement by saying the law is the problem? (Of course there exists a bunch of stupid laws that are also terribly enforced, but here the objective of the GDPR is not stupid – it's merely a matter of terrible enforcement) > Cost money to company (so cost to customers) Most regulation comes with a cost. The fact that this does, too, is kinda meaningless on its own. Food safety regulation comes at a cost – that, in itself, is not an argument against such regulation. > A simpler browser extension where you manage your preference once far all (default) with the possibility to personilize x site (think like you do for camera permission) would have solved the problem in a real way and without all the hussle. Are you seriously arguing that legislation to enforce such privacy standardization would be easier to enforce than the current GDPR? By all means, what you're proposing sounds great – better than the GDPR even – but massively harder to do.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> in what other aspects of life do people respond to terrible enforcement by saying the law is the problem? Every other case where the law is widely broken and selectively enforced? From low-level traffic offenses to drug legalization.

nikeee 4y ago

> 99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them Note that cookies that are technically required to serve the site don't need a cookie banner. This is something many people get wrong. Other people shift to LocalStorage instead. But the actual legislation does not distinguish between cookies and local storage (and similar techniques). Also, there must be a "reject all" button which should appear visually equivalent to the "accept all" button. Rejecting all has to be as easy as accepting all. Additional clicks are not legal.

karaterobot 4y ago
Another thing that is often ignored is that you have to wait for someone to consent before you give them cookies. Many sites just create the cookies when you open the page, then throw the banner, then whether you accept or reject, it makes no difference. Talk about compliance theater.

solarkraft 4y ago

> 99% are just fake. If you reject cookies you keep get them That's illegal, then.

gpderetta 4y ago

GDPR notices are obnoxious, but they are not the only source of popups, not even the most annoying (most of them are converging to standard patterns, so you can dismiss them quickly). These days many sites have a constant barrage of all kind of popups, browser notifications requests, registration nags, adverts and so on, often on a delayed trigger.

adhesive_wombat 4y ago
> GDPR notices are obnoxious, They're not obnoxious because GDPR made them that way, they're obnoxious because companies who think they have a right to unfettered and undisclosed abuse of people's data (because that's what they were used to) are trying to pretend that the law is the problem and not their malfeasance. A fully compliant GDPR banner has two buttons, of equal prominence: reject all, and accept all. That's it. Any obnoxiousness is on thy implementor, and it's likely illegal. Another fully compliant solution is to only collect the data you actual need and then you don't even need a banner at all.
- gpderetta 4y ago
  Of course! I'm just pointing out that getting rid of GDPR wouldn't get rid of the popups.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

corrral 4y ago

> Cost money to company (so cost to customers) You can't necessarily raise prices just because your costs go up.

nannePOPI 4y ago