17 ms·

ultrasonic washer are by far the best way to wash fruits & veges of these things, in Korea ultrasonic washer-sinks are picking up in popularity. https://www.yo

by treme 4y ago

ultrasonic washer are by far the best way to wash fruits & veges of these things, in Korea ultrasonic washer-sinks are picking up in popularity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-JZkiGigDw&t=261s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-JZkiGigDw&t=261s research citation https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688301/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688301/

DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Maybe a stupid question but this removes surface pesticide residue, is there any evidence of how much that is percentage wise versus 'absorbed' pesticide inside the fruit?
hetspookjee 4y ago
It makes me sad that we need ultrasonic washers for fruit and vegetables.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  We don’t spray pesticides on fruit to make people sad. Without them then fruit would be inaccessible to many people.
  - tuyiown 4y ago
    > Without them then fruit would be inaccessible to many people. This is just a lucky side effect, I'm 100% sure that main goal is for the pesticides industry just take their cut on the producers margin. By growing those margins, sure, but it's not something that should be forgotten.
    - biorach 4y ago
      No, the main goal of the pesticides industry is to supply chemicals that kill of various pests (insects, fungi etc) that would otherwise destroy a significant proportion of the harvest. Without these pesticides food would be significantly more expensive and less accessible to many people. I agree that we should talk about moving away from chemical dependent farming but we need to be aware of the full picture in order to avoid glib solutions.
      - tuyiown 4y ago
        I realize I should have been more nuanced, but you should too. The increase of production is undeniable, I'm not challenging that, and introduction of pesticides in the second half the the 20th century lowered drastically the cost of living of many. But the pesticide industry has become predatory, and their concerns have not been public welfare for a very long time.
        biorach 4y ago
        Their concerns were never public welfare. They are companies. Their concerns are profit and market share. I think what you are saying is that they have turned to predatory behaviour in order to grow profits and protect market share. Your point would have been better made if you had said just that, with examples.
  - jtdev 4y ago
    Where I live, fruit and vegetable farmers are routinely required to discard significant portions of the harvest per USDA mandates… maybe we could find some middle ground between poisoning people for obscene harvests and allowing pests to decimate crops?
  - fbanon 4y ago
    Without pesticides we could create more resistant cultivars.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
      I think we do both.
    - mecsred 4y ago
      Without antibiotics we could cultivate more resistant humans. That's probably not a situation anyone wants, pencillin was huge for a reason. Now looking into alternate forms of resistances while still enjoying modern treatments, theres an idea.
      - fbanon 4y ago
        Bad analogy. Cultivating more resistant humans would raise a bunch of ethical questions.
        mecsred 4y ago
        That's the point of the analogy. Use of pesticides in some part allows us to have stable and cheap access to food. There are similar ethical arguments to be had about restricting pesticides.
        yeahwhatever10 4y ago
        Most wealthy westerns only see/know abundance. Pesticides, GMOs, these things prevent famine in most of the world.
    - outworlder 4y ago
      > Without pesticides we could create more resistant cultivars. Doesn't follow. We can create them today. Pretty sure farmers would be very happy on not having to dedicate resources to pest control. It's probably not even feasible long term. Pests can and do adapt. The main problem is monoculture. Also, those resistant cultivars are probably not going to do so well when it comes to other variables: shelf life, taste, etc.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  For most of agricultural history people didn't eat raw vegetables at all, and only some raw fruits. Before the advent of modern agriculture night dirt was a common fertilizer and a serious vector for disease. It's still unsafe to ear raw fruits and vegetables in parts of the world with bad sanitization. I know a few people who have gotten seriously ill consuming fresh pressed fruit juice in North Africa.
  - Baloo 4y ago
    It's a nice anecdote, but I've lived and travelled in various African countries and never been sick from consuming fruit, vegetables or pressed juice. I'd be much more worried about eating poorly butchered and stored meat. The idea people throughout history didn't eat raw fruits and vegetables is also quite wrong. Again, after living in rural communities, they largely eat what they can get - which includes a lot of raw fruits and vegetables. Of course meat is important, but no more important than nuts, berries, tubers etc.
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      Here's a 2017 study from Egypt about the frequency of parasite cysts on fresh produce[1]. Here's another about salmonella generally in North Africa[2]. Both irrigation and washing of produce use water that may not be safe to drink. This isn't some anecdotal issue I'm bringing up. [1] https://aeji.journals.ekb.eg/article_17804.html https://aeji.journals.ekb.eg/article_17804.html [2] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2017.01569/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2017.0156...
    - raverbashing 4y ago
      The only anecdote here is yours, because food-borne diseases are very common and a significant source of misery across the developing world (That is, if you don't have undetected Helminthiase or some other disease)
    - outworlder 4y ago
      > It's a nice anecdote, but I've lived and travelled in various African countries and never been sick from consuming fruit, vegetables or pressed juice. That's all and good, but how do you even know that? One can live with parasites for quite a while before noticing any symptoms. I come from a 'third world' country. We really wash our fruits and specially our vegetables. Even though they might come from large farming operations, you can still have people without proper sanitization handling them after taking a dump. Heck, there are still places where you cannot enter a body of water without worms piercing your skin and having a party in your intestines. Our elementary school curriculum was pretty extensive on diseases and specially parasites. > The idea people throughout history didn't eat raw fruits and vegetables is also quite wrong. They did. People also died a lot. Although a berry growing somewhere in the wilderness will probably have less of a chance of carrying diseases or parasites that infect humans (on the account of not having encountered other humans). After farming? All bets are off.
gruez 4y ago
>ultrasonic washer are by far the best way to wash fruits & veges of these things Is this claim backed by anything? Or is it just a claim by the manufacturer?
- treme 4y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688301/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688301/
lm28469 4y ago
The trend of "we fucked up big time and need to create additional waste to take negate our fuck ups" is really worrying. Installing ultra sonic cleaners, reverse osmosis machines, AC units, &c. in every single of our houses/flats won't be sustainable
- gumby 4y ago
  It's the same school of thought that says that one should lower taxes and invest less in road fixing and schools. Instead, cars wear out faster/need more repairs and wealthier parent pay for tutors to make up the difference. 40+ years of externalizing costs has taken its toll.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    IMO the issue is ideologies vs actuaries/statisticians ... It's shocking how both the "left"/"right" agree on many values, but also so disagree on how to achieve them. Eg: Both sides care about children, productive economy, value of education
    - andai 4y ago
      Using education as an example, I think great harm has come as a result of making it a government monopoly. Not sure how it is in the US but in Europe there's not really a free market with regards to how children are taught. So there's no room for a competitor to come in and say "we can do it better", because when this happens (and it does happen occasionally) they are just shut down by police. The school I went to was a Dalton school (though basically only in name, as explained below), one of the pioneering futuristic school systems developed in the early 20th century which said that people would learn more if they are allowed to learn about what they actually care about. My school had a copy of the original book describing the Dalton school system in the library. Almost everything described in the Dalton school from 1905 would be illegal if it were done today. My point is, I'm fairly left-leaning but I support a radical deregulation of education on all levels: this seems to be one area where we should let the free market take care of things. And of course, if it turns out that a different way of teaching works better, there's nothing (except inertia) stopping the public schools from adopting the same methodology, making it universally available.
hammock 4y ago
Can you give a specific product recommendation? I did a search and got a lot of junk or questionable results.
- Tade0 4y ago
  My experience so far is: don't go for the €100/$100 one. I bought one because my relative wanted to have this particular model in his 3D printing... cave (for lack of a better word) and it broke down after a few weeks.
- treme 4y ago
  It's just starting to get early adopter traction in an early adopter country, so it'll probably be a while until you can find something locally. https://www.rahatsmall.com/ https://www.rahatsmall.com/ http://www.livinghertz.com/ http://www.livinghertz.com/ are apparently 2 popular consumer brands in Korea. I just searched aliexpress for "ultrasonic food cleaner", they probably work but no idea how they compare. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001039347867.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1c964ddeIPs0TF&algo_pvid=383cd42f-b850-4d37-85ab-ea0dd186810c&algo_exp_id=383cd42f-b850-4d37-85ab-ea0dd186810c-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000013683861495%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21%2116.51%21%21%214.22%21%21%402103255b16534099646532857ed141%2110000013683861495%21sea https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001039347867.html?spm=a2g0o...
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    I see some 10W models, 50W models and 100W models - how much power is appropriate?
    - hammock 4y ago
      Here is what I saw for an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner: >As a general rule of thumb, you will require between 50watts to 100 watts per gallon for your ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to achieve efficient cleaning.
sschueller 4y ago
If that worked why would the industry not do this before they put it on the shelve? Organic salad I can buy here (Switzerland) comes marked as pre-washed and ready to eat in many cases.
- treme 4y ago
  because most consumers won't be able to tell the difference while they incur cost of extra process. They have pre-washed salads in NA too, but I doubt those are washed using ultrasonic devices.

by treme 4y ago

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

Maybe a stupid question but this removes surface pesticide residue, is there any evidence of how much that is percentage wise versus 'absorbed' pesticide inside the fruit?

hetspookjee 4y ago

It makes me sad that we need ultrasonic washers for fruit and vegetables.

nemo44x 4y ago
We don’t spray pesticides on fruit to make people sad. Without them then fruit would be inaccessible to many people.
- tuyiown 4y ago
  > Without them then fruit would be inaccessible to many people. This is just a lucky side effect, I'm 100% sure that main goal is for the pesticides industry just take their cut on the producers margin. By growing those margins, sure, but it's not something that should be forgotten.
  - biorach 4y ago
    No, the main goal of the pesticides industry is to supply chemicals that kill of various pests (insects, fungi etc) that would otherwise destroy a significant proportion of the harvest. Without these pesticides food would be significantly more expensive and less accessible to many people. I agree that we should talk about moving away from chemical dependent farming but we need to be aware of the full picture in order to avoid glib solutions.
    - tuyiown 4y ago
      I realize I should have been more nuanced, but you should too. The increase of production is undeniable, I'm not challenging that, and introduction of pesticides in the second half the the 20th century lowered drastically the cost of living of many. But the pesticide industry has become predatory, and their concerns have not been public welfare for a very long time.
      - biorach 4y ago
        Their concerns were never public welfare. They are companies. Their concerns are profit and market share. I think what you are saying is that they have turned to predatory behaviour in order to grow profits and protect market share. Your point would have been better made if you had said just that, with examples.
- jtdev 4y ago
  Where I live, fruit and vegetable farmers are routinely required to discard significant portions of the harvest per USDA mandates… maybe we could find some middle ground between poisoning people for obscene harvests and allowing pests to decimate crops?
- fbanon 4y ago
  Without pesticides we could create more resistant cultivars.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    I think we do both.
  - mecsred 4y ago
    Without antibiotics we could cultivate more resistant humans. That's probably not a situation anyone wants, pencillin was huge for a reason. Now looking into alternate forms of resistances while still enjoying modern treatments, theres an idea.
    - fbanon 4y ago
      Bad analogy. Cultivating more resistant humans would raise a bunch of ethical questions.
      - mecsred 4y ago
        That's the point of the analogy. Use of pesticides in some part allows us to have stable and cheap access to food. There are similar ethical arguments to be had about restricting pesticides.
        yeahwhatever10 4y ago
        Most wealthy westerns only see/know abundance. Pesticides, GMOs, these things prevent famine in most of the world.
  - outworlder 4y ago
    > Without pesticides we could create more resistant cultivars. Doesn't follow. We can create them today. Pretty sure farmers would be very happy on not having to dedicate resources to pest control. It's probably not even feasible long term. Pests can and do adapt. The main problem is monoculture. Also, those resistant cultivars are probably not going to do so well when it comes to other variables: shelf life, taste, etc.
ch4s3 4y ago
For most of agricultural history people didn't eat raw vegetables at all, and only some raw fruits. Before the advent of modern agriculture night dirt was a common fertilizer and a serious vector for disease. It's still unsafe to ear raw fruits and vegetables in parts of the world with bad sanitization. I know a few people who have gotten seriously ill consuming fresh pressed fruit juice in North Africa.
- Baloo 4y ago
  It's a nice anecdote, but I've lived and travelled in various African countries and never been sick from consuming fruit, vegetables or pressed juice. I'd be much more worried about eating poorly butchered and stored meat. The idea people throughout history didn't eat raw fruits and vegetables is also quite wrong. Again, after living in rural communities, they largely eat what they can get - which includes a lot of raw fruits and vegetables. Of course meat is important, but no more important than nuts, berries, tubers etc.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    Here's a 2017 study from Egypt about the frequency of parasite cysts on fresh produce[1]. Here's another about salmonella generally in North Africa[2]. Both irrigation and washing of produce use water that may not be safe to drink. This isn't some anecdotal issue I'm bringing up. [1] https://aeji.journals.ekb.eg/article_17804.html https://aeji.journals.ekb.eg/article_17804.html [2] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2017.01569/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2017.0156...
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    The only anecdote here is yours, because food-borne diseases are very common and a significant source of misery across the developing world (That is, if you don't have undetected Helminthiase or some other disease)
  - outworlder 4y ago
    > It's a nice anecdote, but I've lived and travelled in various African countries and never been sick from consuming fruit, vegetables or pressed juice. That's all and good, but how do you even know that? One can live with parasites for quite a while before noticing any symptoms. I come from a 'third world' country. We really wash our fruits and specially our vegetables. Even though they might come from large farming operations, you can still have people without proper sanitization handling them after taking a dump. Heck, there are still places where you cannot enter a body of water without worms piercing your skin and having a party in your intestines. Our elementary school curriculum was pretty extensive on diseases and specially parasites. > The idea people throughout history didn't eat raw fruits and vegetables is also quite wrong. They did. People also died a lot. Although a berry growing somewhere in the wilderness will probably have less of a chance of carrying diseases or parasites that infect humans (on the account of not having encountered other humans). After farming? All bets are off.

gruez 4y ago

>ultrasonic washer are by far the best way to wash fruits & veges of these things Is this claim backed by anything? Or is it just a claim by the manufacturer?

treme 4y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688301/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4688301/

lm28469 4y ago

The trend of "we fucked up big time and need to create additional waste to take negate our fuck ups" is really worrying. Installing ultra sonic cleaners, reverse osmosis machines, AC units, &c. in every single of our houses/flats won't be sustainable

gumby 4y ago
It's the same school of thought that says that one should lower taxes and invest less in road fixing and schools. Instead, cars wear out faster/need more repairs and wealthier parent pay for tutors to make up the difference. 40+ years of externalizing costs has taken its toll.
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  IMO the issue is ideologies vs actuaries/statisticians ... It's shocking how both the "left"/"right" agree on many values, but also so disagree on how to achieve them. Eg: Both sides care about children, productive economy, value of education
  - andai 4y ago
    Using education as an example, I think great harm has come as a result of making it a government monopoly. Not sure how it is in the US but in Europe there's not really a free market with regards to how children are taught. So there's no room for a competitor to come in and say "we can do it better", because when this happens (and it does happen occasionally) they are just shut down by police. The school I went to was a Dalton school (though basically only in name, as explained below), one of the pioneering futuristic school systems developed in the early 20th century which said that people would learn more if they are allowed to learn about what they actually care about. My school had a copy of the original book describing the Dalton school system in the library. Almost everything described in the Dalton school from 1905 would be illegal if it were done today. My point is, I'm fairly left-leaning but I support a radical deregulation of education on all levels: this seems to be one area where we should let the free market take care of things. And of course, if it turns out that a different way of teaching works better, there's nothing (except inertia) stopping the public schools from adopting the same methodology, making it universally available.

hammock 4y ago

Can you give a specific product recommendation? I did a search and got a lot of junk or questionable results.

Tade0 4y ago
My experience so far is: don't go for the €100/$100 one. I bought one because my relative wanted to have this particular model in his 3D printing... cave (for lack of a better word) and it broke down after a few weeks.
treme 4y ago
It's just starting to get early adopter traction in an early adopter country, so it'll probably be a while until you can find something locally. https://www.rahatsmall.com/ https://www.rahatsmall.com/ http://www.livinghertz.com/ http://www.livinghertz.com/ are apparently 2 popular consumer brands in Korea. I just searched aliexpress for "ultrasonic food cleaner", they probably work but no idea how they compare. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001039347867.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1c964ddeIPs0TF&algo_pvid=383cd42f-b850-4d37-85ab-ea0dd186810c&algo_exp_id=383cd42f-b850-4d37-85ab-ea0dd186810c-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000013683861495%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21%2116.51%21%21%214.22%21%21%402103255b16534099646532857ed141%2110000013683861495%21sea https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001039347867.html?spm=a2g0o...
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  I see some 10W models, 50W models and 100W models - how much power is appropriate?
  - hammock 4y ago
    Here is what I saw for an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner: >As a general rule of thumb, you will require between 50watts to 100 watts per gallon for your ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to achieve efficient cleaning.

sschueller 4y ago

If that worked why would the industry not do this before they put it on the shelve? Organic salad I can buy here (Switzerland) comes marked as pre-washed and ready to eat in many cases.

treme 4y ago
because most consumers won't be able to tell the difference while they incur cost of extra process. They have pre-washed salads in NA too, but I doubt those are washed using ultrasonic devices.