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I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it re

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe any reactions just don't make mainstream news.

throwaway4good 4y ago
The short answer is that the Uyghur cause has been mostly promoted by American neo-conservative pro-Israel interests. (This maybe changing though.)
duairc 4y ago
> I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. You're not imagining this — Muslim countries support China. See this map of a UN vote to condemn China's treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang[1]. You'll notice that every Muslim country that didn't abstain defended China. In fact the only countries that condemned China are countries that are militarily allied with the United States. If you look at any of the "NGOs" that push the narrative that China is oppressing Muslims in Xinjiang, every single one of them is funded either by the National Endowment for Democracy[2][3][4] (an arm of the US State Department notorious for pushing regime change in countries the US doesn't like) or the Australian Strategic Policy Initiative, which in turn is sponsored by several US arms manufacturers[5], such as Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc. — all of whom would profit massively from a war with China, for which this narrative is manufacturing consent. Even the site that spawned this discussion seems to be associated with Adrian Zenz. A lot of the claims in Xinjiang can be traced back to his "work". He's a fundamentalist Christian bigot, is a fellow at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation" and claims to have been sent on a mission by God himself to destroy the Communist Party of China. His "work" has been thoroughly debunked many times over.[6] Frankly, the narrative is bullshit. The Muslim world that has suffered massively at the hands of US imperialism can see right through it and votes accordingly. China has never invaded or bombed any Muslim country. The US has no credibility in the Muslim world. [1]: https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map/index.html?initialWidth=703&childId=av-2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map-EN6ID&parentTitle=More%20countries%20join%20condemnation%20of%20China%20over%20Xinjiang%20abuses&parentUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2F2020%2F10%2F08%2Fun-statement-china-uighurs-xinjiang https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statement... [2]: https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-china-2021/ https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-chin... [3]: https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congress/ https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congre... [4]: https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on-work-of-ned-grantees/ https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on... [5]: https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors [6]: https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad0babb9fb.html https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad...
throwawaywig 4y ago
Only people who don't know anything about Chinese demography are surprised at the loss of Islamic reaction. Uighurs are not the only Muslim populace of China. The largest Muslim populace is the Hui Chinese Muslims. They are adherent of Islam, but they fully conform to Chinese culture and language, and they are devoid of religio-political goals. The activity against the Uighurs is not anti-Muslim, it is anti-non-Chinese, and anti-potential-separatists. See more: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people [2]: https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/ https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-is... [3]: https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim-minorities/ https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim... I am sure most of you haven’t heard the word "Hui" before. They are 10.5 million strong, and they practice Sufism, a much softer and non-radical version of Islam. They face no re-education camps at all. What China doing is wrong. Period. But it is not anti-Islam.
dr_faustus 4y ago
I also find that interesting in contrast to the constant outrage about the situation of Palestinians in Israel which certainly has many highly problematic aspects but to me still seems to be a far cry from the situation of Muslims in China or the treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia. It seems to be quite hypocritical by the governments of Muslim countries.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  - Paradigma11 4y ago
    You bomb, torture and kill them till you get a dictatorial regime that is subservient to you?
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. That seems to be a very high bar if we compare it with USA/NATO/EU/Chinese endeavours in any of Muslim regions. The grandparent made it sound like the devastation were ongoing, which it's not. Stopping the violence is a good thing. If you don't acknowledge it, you can't even tell failure from success and all of your (Xinjiang and otherwise) efforts would be misguided.
      - Jataman606 4y ago
        Russia started war in Chechnya (first indirectly by arming opposition, then by literally starting war). Spinning it to say that they tried to win the war to turn Chechnya to peaceful region is very disingenuous.
      - watwut 4y ago
        > You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. Not starting that war in the first place would be even better. > Stopping the violence is a good thing. Not committing it in the first place is even better.
DocTomoe 4y ago
This may be related to the relatively lax response of western governments as compared to the 'full out riot control' approach China takes [1]. As for the international level, China is following a carrot and stick approach there [2] - and they have a long memory [3] [1] For a contemporary example in that region, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio... [2] https://ecfr.eu/publication/china_great_game_middle_east/ https://ecfr.eu/publication/china_great_game_middle_east/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#Turkey_and_People's_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Turkey_relations...
- vmception 4y ago
  > This may be related to the relatively lax response of western governments as compared to the 'full out riot control' approach China takes Narrator: its not There are some other comments here on it
md_ 4y ago
Some of it might have to do with both covert and overt influence by China on foreign powers. https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uighur-exiles-turkey-intimidation/ https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uigh... goes into a little detail here: "China also employs diplomatic pressure and financial incentives to secure foreign assistance in its efforts to persecute Uighurs abroad. Imran Khan, the prime minister of Pakistan—one of China’s principal allies and the recipient of billions of dollars in loans as part of the Belt and Road Initiative—has said he accepts China’s explanation of the events in Xinjiang, despite frequently speaking out against Islamophobia elsewhere. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia, which is China’s largest oil supplier, defended the CCP’s “right” to carry out “anti-terrorism and de-extremization work” during a 2019 trip to Beijing, where he signed a multibillion-dollar trade deal. The kingdom was one of the thirty-seven nations that signed on to a letter to the UN Human Rights Council praising China’s “remarkable achievements in the field of human rights.” Saudi Arabia, along with other countries such as Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, have extradited Uighurs at China’s request, and the Associated Press reported last year on the alleged existence of a secret Chinese-run black site in Dubai, where abducted Uighurs had been detained. After an injection of Chinese funds into Turkey’s crisis-hit economy and shipments of vaccines during the height of the pandemic, even Erdoğan appears to have muted his once-strident criticism. Over the past two years, Turkish police have detained over one hundred Uighurs, including a number of activists, and deported several others."
- tigerlily 4y ago
  > Turkish police have detained over one hundred Uighurs Seems unbelievable considering Uighurs are, well, Turkic. Due in no small part to Genghis Khan of course.
  - MrPatan 4y ago
    Would it surprise you to find that Turkish police detain lots and lots of other Turkic people?
oreally 4y ago
IIRC china invited many nations to xinjiang, not just muslims but some western-aligned countries too. The muslim countries and said it was fine and no major mistreatment was going on, while I believe some western countries refused to go, claiming some sort of taint. So if you believe something, then you get invited to see what's going on, and you refuse, what does that say about you? It's the makings of a thought bubble. Edit: Wow downvotes! Looks like I might have spoken to some of your hearts
- rich_sasha 4y ago
  It's very, very hard to know what's really going on in a totalitarian / authoritarian country, even when they let you in and explore unreservedly. Famously, the Red Cross inspected one Nazi concentration camp and gave it the thumbs up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_Ghetto_and_the_Red_Cross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_Ghetto_and_the_... Needless to say, there was nothing good about that camp, or any of the other ones.
  - oreally 4y ago
    First, how can you get closer to the truth without ever going to the damn place? Second, I agree there's a capability of falsification from either side, be it china or a news outlet. But neither does it translate to guilt on either side. In the absence of such you'll have to consider from the first principles, and you'll find the US/west/people involve have a lot more incentive to keep china down. As such the better entities to trust are the third parties, ala the muslim states.
    - rich_sasha 4y ago
      I'm quite wary of "taking sides"; what's public is alarming, I mostly take it at face value, but don't add weight. I'm not saying the truth is somewhere between the extremes, I suspect the accusations are right, but I don't confuse my suspicion with proof. If something has no value as evidence, then you should disregard it. If China is a murderous totalitarian state, it will show beautiful, pristine "reeducation camps" to outsiders. If it is not a murderous totalitarian state, it will also show beautiful, pristine "reeducation camps". You can totally learn about something without physically going there. Satellite imagery, intelligence-gathering... in fact for sure you can learn a lot more from document caches or finding insiders willing to talk than seeing some kind of "micro" insight into these camps. If I find a small handful of victims, well who knows, maybe they were unlucky. If I find a document specifying how to torment those incarcerated en masse, that's a smoking gun.
enaaem 4y ago
That’s why, as a westerner, I consider the Uyghur issue not to be ‘our’ problem. It’s terrible what’s happening there, but there are more than 2 billion muslims in the world who can do something about it.
- tjpnz 4y ago
  When human rights are being violated it's everyone's problem.
- blisterpeanuts 4y ago
  “…who can do something about it.” What can they do, specifically?
  - powerapple 4y ago
    They can BUY products from Xinjiang, instead of boycott it, raising the living standard of the region and people will be better off, have more choices. They can open border to people from Xinjiang if they want to go for a short term solution. The evil of everything is poverty, nothing else. No religion, no politics. Thinking how America was the paradise for immigrants in the past, no one hates immigrants when economy is good.
- cies 4y ago
  Kinda sad that you cannot see humans as humans, but need to see every one by their religion-label (what ever that means).
  - enaaem 4y ago
    What’s happening to the Uyghurs is definitely a humanitarian catastrophe. The Chinese are eradicating muslims from their territory and if the Muslim world are not willing to do anything about it, than there is little the West can do. You can’t fight other peoples battles they are not willing to fight themselves. We have seen this observation over and over again in human history.
- Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
refurb 4y ago
I think the reason is pretty clear - Western nations can be pressured and people can voice their opinion and protest their own government's actions. Only a little over 30 years ago China rolled out its military and crushed its own citizens beneath tank treads, then denied the whole thing happened. Public condemnation against China will do nothing, so Islamic countries don't even try. Plus I would throw in a bit of geopolitcal posturing in that 1) going against China might look a little too much aligning with the US and 2) not pissing off China keeps some sort of partnership with China and it's deep pockets open in the future.
- trasz 4y ago
  Only a little over 30 years ago USA rolled out its police to blow up its own citizens, razing entire city block: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing. They didn't need to deny or cover up anything, obviously nobody got punished for this, because the victims were black. So, yeah, while the Western people can certainly voice their opinion, it's often because their opinion doesn't matter. ("According to an article in The Lancet, between 1980 and 2018, more than 30,000 were killed by the police", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enfor...)
  - refurb 4y ago
    Did you read your own link? The "Aftermath" section where several courts condemned those actions and awarded substantial awards to the victims. The City apologized. Independent commissions condemned the decision. Can you please list all of the acts of restitution that the Chinese government has done since 1989? Oh, and ignoring all that, you're posting an awful lot of whataboutisms. I count about 9 of them so far. What game are you playing?
    - cies 4y ago
      While you are right, I think GP still has a point. Those responsible for the MOVE massacre walked from it. The broader point I think GP tries to make is: the west should not be so quick to point fingers, especially not while it's own fingers are covered in blood. The US likes to same "human rights violations" about other nations, but then commits many themselves every year, and claims to be above the The Hague court. I also believe the US has not right to use those terms while it is still misbahaving on such a large scale.
EvilSpark 4y ago
mytailorisrich 4y ago
> The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region Not really. Islam has been present in China for over a thousand years, and the Uyghurs do not represent the majority of muslims in the country, which are actually the Hui (ethnic Chinese who converted) and outside of Xinjiang. For the Chinese government this is a question of national unity against separatist movements, which is a more ethnic than religious problem, and political control. I'm thinking that they actually prefer Islam, which is unstructured, to the Catholic Church (hence action they regularly take against it) although, obviously from a communist stand-point no religion at all is the best option, and so Islam is not really singled out. Many muslim countries also have strategic interests in having good relations with China, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan, and thus abstain from raising any issues, not least since China has also the advantage of not being involved in the Middle East and of keeping a neutral stance there. Now, there are anti-Chinese terrorist attacks in Pakistan but everyone tries hard to keep a lid of them for these reasons. If anything, and cynically, the West would very much like muslim extremists to turn their attention more towards China because obviously that would be destabilising for China, and so the anti-islam narrative is pushed at every turn.
truthwhisperer 4y ago
thematrixturtle 4y ago
It's more complicated than that. The majority of China's Muslims are Hui, who are ethnically Han Chinese and thus not considered an existential threat to the state. The Uyghurs, on the other hand, are genetically and linguistically different, live in territory that was not originally Chinese (Xinjiang literally means "New Territory") and would genuinely prefer to have their own state. Of course, the CCP is very averse to any power structures they don't completely control and thus regularly cracks down on all sorts of organized religion (Christian churches, Falun Gong, etc).
- throwaway290 4y ago
  > Hui Muslims employed by the state, unlike Uyghurs, are allowed to fast during Ramadan. The number of Hui going on Hajj is expanding and Hui women are allowed to wear veils, but Uyghur women are discouraged from wearing them. Muslim ethnic groups in different regions are treated differently by the Chinese government with regard to religious freedom. Religious freedom exists for Hui Muslims, who can practice their religion, build mosques and have their children attend them; more controls are placed on Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Hui religious schools are allowed, and an autonomous network of mosques and schools run by a Hui Sufi leader was formed with the approval of the Chinese government. So yeah, this is not directed at Muslims so much as it's directed at people of Uyghur ethnicity very specifically. It almost looks like CCP would like to keep the territory, but without the inconvenient indigenous people. And they use a mix of apartheid (which just by itself is already an internationally recognized crime against humanity) and a bunch of activities at least adjacent to genocide to get there.
tsss 4y ago
Religion is only an excuse for hate and violence. Most of the population has already found their favorite enemy in the west, primarily USA, Germany, Israel. State actors and other powerful people have nothing to gain by antagonizing China, who doesn't give a damn. Wait until there is a border dispute between China and Pakistan and suddenly the Muslim world will care about Xinjiang.
- ciphol 4y ago
  Good thing then that we have atheist countries like China who never use violence against anyone...
throwaway052422 4y ago
Conversely, I've seen many people in the U.S. argue that terrorist attacks from extremists justified a harsh national security response when the attacks happen to countries like the United States or Israel. Then these same people completely ignore the numerous terrorist attacks from extremists that China has faced[1], and say a strong national security response is completely unjustified. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Terrorist_incidents_by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Terrorist_i...
- ciphol 4y ago
  Nobody argues that attacks on the US or Israel justify the US or Israel putting their Muslim population into camps like China does.
  - throwaway052422 4y ago
    Many neutral observers agree that Gaza has been turned into a defacto open air concentration camp, a small plot of land that Israel and Egypt keep people and supplies from freely moving about, and assert military control over. Naturally, people sympathetic to the government will try to paint it in a better light, but the same is true with Xinjiang. Things are never 100% the same, so people can always argue "When _I_ do it it's different." For instance, people in Xinjiang are Chinese citizens, and when they leave the camps they can go anywhere in China, and have the same legal rights. People in Gaza, conversely, are supposed to be members for life, with restricted rights, and this is to be a generational condition (many children are stuck in Gaza as well).
rayiner 4y ago
My impression is that most Muslims don’t real care about Muslims from other ethnic groups. Pakistan and Bangladesh, for example, are happy to suck up to China for the business opportunities. Similarly, the gulf states took few Syrian refugees during the recent crises: https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Syrian-refugees-why-won-t-the-oil-rich-Gulf-States-take-them-in_a3477.html https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Syrian-refugees-why-wo.... More generally, Arabs regard non-Arab Muslims as barely human—e.g. holding Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in near slavery conditions: https://sports.yahoo.com/qatar-world-cup-unpaid-workers-slavery-fifa-amnesty-international-193121993.html https://sports.yahoo.com/qatar-world-cup-unpaid-workers-slav...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >My impression is that most Muslims don’t real care about Muslims from other ethnic groups. It's the same reason most "Muslims" don't "care" about Al Qaeda and ISIS. Many Muslim populations, just like the Chinese, are negatively affected by Uighur terrorist and extremist groups. "Southeast Asia is witnessing evolving security risks from Chinese Uyghurs' involvement in military activities in the region." https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/26351495.pdf https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/26351495.pdf
  - Sporktacular 4y ago
    Yet more muslims have died fighting AQ and ISIS than any other religious group. Weird right?
    - ashwagary 4y ago
      >more muslims have died fighting AQ and ISIS than any other religious group I think we are making the same point. Some of the largest muslim countries (Indonesia, Pakistan) don't have sympathy for many Chinese Uyghur groups because once they leave China, they train with ISIS/Al Qaeda then plan and commit terrorist acts around Asia. Many believe the Chinese are doing them a favor with their detention and deradicalization programs.
eternalban 4y ago
The Xinjiang matter is bound up with: (a) the understanding that China is a rising superpower that the West wishes to contain; (b) it has nothing to do with the religion itself (given that China and Islam have a long history of coexistence); (c) that the strain of Islam of concern to Chinese authorities is the same strain used by West to conjure up the Taliban (which then gave us ISIS); and (d) knowledge of the fact that even as way back as the 4th 'Rightly Guided' khalif (Ali ibn abu Taleb) Muslim authorities themselves tended to view extremist and radical views of Islam with concern. There is a strange belief in the West that Muslims have been historically permissive to extremists religious positions whereas the actual facts are entirely contrary. Two other hot button 'types' that you refer to are: 1 - Explicit derogatory attacks on Islam. 2 - Resisting a colonization effort that has had brutally adverse and tragic consequences for both Muslim and Christian populations of the contested colonial grounds.
berdario 4y ago
Part of the problem is that it's difficult to trust any of these documents. It seems that in this latest dump there are some that are blatantly forged. Even if the others are genuine, this calls into question the veracity of the others https://twitter.com/Cinqscories/status/1529035490032340993 https://twitter.com/Cinqscories/status/1529035490032340993
- jhugasd 4y ago
  Wow those are really bad fakes... You would think they at least hire someone to write simplified chinese
- glenstein 4y ago
  A lot of what's going on in that tweet you cited is hard to decipher without stepping back and taking stock of the context. For instance, I don't know what to make of the significance of a cursor being visible in a document that is dumped (it might be a big deal, or it might not be at all) and I don't know how motivated the party is here to use that to prove a particular argument, or what it should or shouldn't prove. In this case, you apparently have to be already bought in with the idea that BBC and Le Monde have a history of using fabricated info from the U.N., and that a reporter is untrustworthy for reasons explained at length in an entirely different twitter thread that you'd have to read to understand. After being that bought in, the fact that BBC, Le Monde, and/or this reporter are involved is treated as evidence in and of itself that the new info is unreliable. You have to agree with all that to even start in the middle and begin going through this analysis. To state it plainly, whenever I see something like this that starts so deep in the middle of unexplained context, I treat it like an "indicator" (in the sense of an economic indicator) against the argument, because it feels like I'm being asked to skip critical steps.
  - fps_doug 4y ago
    "I don't believe it because I'm missing context" is a weak argument to make. The tweets read like the author isn't a native English speaker. The traditional vs. simplified characters accusation should be relatively easy to confirm if you want to put in at least a little effort. Looking up characters as someone who isn't familiar with them at all might be cumbersome but is absolutely possible. But then again you wonder why such blatant mistakes would be made in the first place, if this was done by someone at least halfway professional.
qiskit 4y ago
> I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation What international muslim community? And if one existed, why would the international muslim community care about US/European funded anti-china propaganda which has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with ethnic separatism. We hate muslims. Killed millions of muslims. We hate chinese people. Killed millions of chinese people. But somehow we care about chinese muslims? How does that work? Why is it we are trying to pit chinese and muslims against each other? > The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region Did china become zionist all of a sudden? Also, I thought it was a genocide? What happened to the millions of uyghurs that was "exterminated"? What happened to the death camps? What happened to the millions of organs? They are trying to extinguish separatism. > But maybe any reactions just don't make mainstream news. Because it's literally manufactured propaganda that nobody believes. There are vlogs of muslims traveling to china all over social media. First it was a genocide. Millions dead. Death camps all over china. That proved to be nonsense. Then it was cultural genocide. That proved to be nonsense. Now it's religious genocide. Which is even more laughable. The ughyurs aren't even the largest muslim ethnic group in china. If you ever doubted that the media/news/etc were truly propaganda, just look into the uyghur "genocide". The media with the government agencies invented a genocide.
vmception 4y ago
Okay this is some amusing and problematic cognitive dissonance. The West gets attacked because of its military occupations in Mesopotamia. That is the criteria for Jihad. Any random teenage edgelord that happens to be Muslim can always take the pedantic “its my duty” approach at any time. The vast majority do not, any slight provocation from then on encourages that sentiment. China’s approach avoids this because they have no military occupation of traditionally muslim lands. That approach has worked better for China’s national security while operating in islamic areas, they invest and have been masterful at it. The Western/US approach never factored in its own national security, or any attempt at understanding Islam, and its been a disaster for its people and a boon to its defense contractors. The key point is that its never been about “rising up on behalf of all muslims being oppressed” its always been about “excising a cancer from traditionally islamic lands”. And that makes inaction towards Xinjiang and the plight of the Uighurs make way more sense, than the fundamentally rocky assumption that action from some unspecified Muslim people is expected to occur. Secondly, some Uighars have already done the terror attacks within China, over “small things”. Long before the massive dragnet and crackdown. This is where China’s identity politics come into play, that some other commenters have pointed out. China’s domestic stance and behavior isn't really about Muslims, its about “territorial unity” with an undercurrent of ethnic discrimination. But ultimately the Uighers are on their own, and East Turkistan isn't going to be a thing.
deleted 4y ago
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_tik_ 4y ago
I am from a Muslim country. There are a few reasons that I can think of: China is not targeting Islam but the separatist movement. There are few Muslim ethnic groups in China. The other is Hui. The hui enjoys normal religious life without any prosecutions. The problem of Radical Islam. The rise of Radical Islam the last few years. Some of this group preaches violence and seperatism. Many Moslim feel unconfortable with the Radical Islam and prefer the govt to deal with them. The Hui Muslim does not get long well with Uighur Muslim. The Hui are motsly Sufi and anti Salafi. Most Muslim distrust western politic and news.
DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
I think there's a lot of suspicion in most Muslim countries towards the motives of the US government when it accuses China of genocide. Over the last 20 years, the US has waged war in predominantly Muslim countries. A conservative estimate is that the US is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslim civilians over the last 20 years, in wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and many other countries. Add to that US support for Israel, and US support for Saudi Arabia's horrific war in Yemen, and the US has essentially no credibility when it claims to be oh so concerned with the rights of Muslims in China. In this light, the US' accusations against China over Xinjiang look like cynical political posturing. The obviously hyperbolic nature of the accusations (including deploying the word "genocide," despite the complete lack of evidence that any mass killing is occurring) just make the US' posture on this issue look even more cynical and crass.

throwaway4good 4y ago

The short answer is that the Uyghur cause has been mostly promoted by American neo-conservative pro-Israel interests. (This maybe changing though.)

duairc 4y ago

> I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. You're not imagining this — Muslim countries support China. See this map of a UN vote to condemn China's treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang[1]. You'll notice that every Muslim country that didn't abstain defended China. In fact the only countries that condemned China are countries that are militarily allied with the United States. If you look at any of the "NGOs" that push the narrative that China is oppressing Muslims in Xinjiang, every single one of them is funded either by the National Endowment for Democracy[2][3][4] (an arm of the US State Department notorious for pushing regime change in countries the US doesn't like) or the Australian Strategic Policy Initiative, which in turn is sponsored by several US arms manufacturers[5], such as Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc. — all of whom would profit massively from a war with China, for which this narrative is manufacturing consent. Even the site that spawned this discussion seems to be associated with Adrian Zenz. A lot of the claims in Xinjiang can be traced back to his "work". He's a fundamentalist Christian bigot, is a fellow at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation" and claims to have been sent on a mission by God himself to destroy the Communist Party of China. His "work" has been thoroughly debunked many times over.[6] Frankly, the narrative is bullshit. The Muslim world that has suffered massively at the hands of US imperialism can see right through it and votes accordingly. China has never invaded or bombed any Muslim country. The US has no credibility in the Muslim world. [1]: https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map/index.html?initialWidth=703&childId=av-2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map-EN6ID&parentTitle=More%20countries%20join%20condemnation%20of%20China%20over%20Xinjiang%20abuses&parentUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2F2020%2F10%2F08%2Fun-statement-china-uighurs-xinjiang https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statement... [2]: https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-china-2021/ https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-chin... [3]: https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congress/ https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congre... [4]: https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on-work-of-ned-grantees/ https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on... [5]: https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors [6]: https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad0babb9fb.html https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad...

throwawaywig 4y ago

Only people who don't know anything about Chinese demography are surprised at the loss of Islamic reaction. Uighurs are not the only Muslim populace of China. The largest Muslim populace is the Hui Chinese Muslims. They are adherent of Islam, but they fully conform to Chinese culture and language, and they are devoid of religio-political goals. The activity against the Uighurs is not anti-Muslim, it is anti-non-Chinese, and anti-potential-separatists. See more: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people [2]: https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/ https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-is... [3]: https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim-minorities/ https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim... I am sure most of you haven’t heard the word "Hui" before. They are 10.5 million strong, and they practice Sufism, a much softer and non-radical version of Islam. They face no re-education camps at all. What China doing is wrong. Period. But it is not anti-Islam.

dr_faustus 4y ago

I also find that interesting in contrast to the constant outrage about the situation of Palestinians in Israel which certainly has many highly problematic aspects but to me still seems to be a far cry from the situation of Muslims in China or the treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia. It seems to be quite hypocritical by the governments of Muslim countries.

thriftwy 4y ago
- Paradigma11 4y ago
  You bomb, torture and kill them till you get a dictatorial regime that is subservient to you?
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. That seems to be a very high bar if we compare it with USA/NATO/EU/Chinese endeavours in any of Muslim regions. The grandparent made it sound like the devastation were ongoing, which it's not. Stopping the violence is a good thing. If you don't acknowledge it, you can't even tell failure from success and all of your (Xinjiang and otherwise) efforts would be misguided.
    - Jataman606 4y ago
      Russia started war in Chechnya (first indirectly by arming opposition, then by literally starting war). Spinning it to say that they tried to win the war to turn Chechnya to peaceful region is very disingenuous.
    - watwut 4y ago
      > You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. Not starting that war in the first place would be even better. > Stopping the violence is a good thing. Not committing it in the first place is even better.

DocTomoe 4y ago

This may be related to the relatively lax response of western governments as compared to the 'full out riot control' approach China takes [1]. As for the international level, China is following a carrot and stick approach there [2] - and they have a long memory [3] [1] For a contemporary example in that region, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi_rio... [2] https://ecfr.eu/publication/china_great_game_middle_east/ https://ecfr.eu/publication/china_great_game_middle_east/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#Turkey_and_People's_Republic_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Turkey_relations...

vmception 4y ago
> This may be related to the relatively lax response of western governments as compared to the 'full out riot control' approach China takes Narrator: its not There are some other comments here on it

md_ 4y ago

Some of it might have to do with both covert and overt influence by China on foreign powers. https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uighur-exiles-turkey-intimidation/ https://harpers.org/archive/2022/04/the-spies-next-door-uigh... goes into a little detail here: "China also employs diplomatic pressure and financial incentives to secure foreign assistance in its efforts to persecute Uighurs abroad. Imran Khan, the prime minister of Pakistan—one of China’s principal allies and the recipient of billions of dollars in loans as part of the Belt and Road Initiative—has said he accepts China’s explanation of the events in Xinjiang, despite frequently speaking out against Islamophobia elsewhere. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia, which is China’s largest oil supplier, defended the CCP’s “right” to carry out “anti-terrorism and de-extremization work” during a 2019 trip to Beijing, where he signed a multibillion-dollar trade deal. The kingdom was one of the thirty-seven nations that signed on to a letter to the UN Human Rights Council praising China’s “remarkable achievements in the field of human rights.” Saudi Arabia, along with other countries such as Egypt and the United Arab Emirates, have extradited Uighurs at China’s request, and the Associated Press reported last year on the alleged existence of a secret Chinese-run black site in Dubai, where abducted Uighurs had been detained. After an injection of Chinese funds into Turkey’s crisis-hit economy and shipments of vaccines during the height of the pandemic, even Erdoğan appears to have muted his once-strident criticism. Over the past two years, Turkish police have detained over one hundred Uighurs, including a number of activists, and deported several others."

tigerlily 4y ago
> Turkish police have detained over one hundred Uighurs Seems unbelievable considering Uighurs are, well, Turkic. Due in no small part to Genghis Khan of course.
- MrPatan 4y ago
  Would it surprise you to find that Turkish police detain lots and lots of other Turkic people?

oreally 4y ago

IIRC china invited many nations to xinjiang, not just muslims but some western-aligned countries too. The muslim countries and said it was fine and no major mistreatment was going on, while I believe some western countries refused to go, claiming some sort of taint. So if you believe something, then you get invited to see what's going on, and you refuse, what does that say about you? It's the makings of a thought bubble. Edit: Wow downvotes! Looks like I might have spoken to some of your hearts

rich_sasha 4y ago
It's very, very hard to know what's really going on in a totalitarian / authoritarian country, even when they let you in and explore unreservedly. Famously, the Red Cross inspected one Nazi concentration camp and gave it the thumbs up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_Ghetto_and_the_Red_Cross https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_Ghetto_and_the_... Needless to say, there was nothing good about that camp, or any of the other ones.
- oreally 4y ago
  First, how can you get closer to the truth without ever going to the damn place? Second, I agree there's a capability of falsification from either side, be it china or a news outlet. But neither does it translate to guilt on either side. In the absence of such you'll have to consider from the first principles, and you'll find the US/west/people involve have a lot more incentive to keep china down. As such the better entities to trust are the third parties, ala the muslim states.
  - rich_sasha 4y ago
    I'm quite wary of "taking sides"; what's public is alarming, I mostly take it at face value, but don't add weight. I'm not saying the truth is somewhere between the extremes, I suspect the accusations are right, but I don't confuse my suspicion with proof. If something has no value as evidence, then you should disregard it. If China is a murderous totalitarian state, it will show beautiful, pristine "reeducation camps" to outsiders. If it is not a murderous totalitarian state, it will also show beautiful, pristine "reeducation camps". You can totally learn about something without physically going there. Satellite imagery, intelligence-gathering... in fact for sure you can learn a lot more from document caches or finding insiders willing to talk than seeing some kind of "micro" insight into these camps. If I find a small handful of victims, well who knows, maybe they were unlucky. If I find a document specifying how to torment those incarcerated en masse, that's a smoking gun.

enaaem 4y ago

That’s why, as a westerner, I consider the Uyghur issue not to be ‘our’ problem. It’s terrible what’s happening there, but there are more than 2 billion muslims in the world who can do something about it.

tjpnz 4y ago
When human rights are being violated it's everyone's problem.
blisterpeanuts 4y ago
“…who can do something about it.” What can they do, specifically?
- powerapple 4y ago
  They can BUY products from Xinjiang, instead of boycott it, raising the living standard of the region and people will be better off, have more choices. They can open border to people from Xinjiang if they want to go for a short term solution. The evil of everything is poverty, nothing else. No religion, no politics. Thinking how America was the paradise for immigrants in the past, no one hates immigrants when economy is good.
cies 4y ago
Kinda sad that you cannot see humans as humans, but need to see every one by their religion-label (what ever that means).
- enaaem 4y ago
  What’s happening to the Uyghurs is definitely a humanitarian catastrophe. The Chinese are eradicating muslims from their territory and if the Muslim world are not willing to do anything about it, than there is little the West can do. You can’t fight other peoples battles they are not willing to fight themselves. We have seen this observation over and over again in human history.
Jon_Lowtek 4y ago

refurb 4y ago

I think the reason is pretty clear - Western nations can be pressured and people can voice their opinion and protest their own government's actions. Only a little over 30 years ago China rolled out its military and crushed its own citizens beneath tank treads, then denied the whole thing happened. Public condemnation against China will do nothing, so Islamic countries don't even try. Plus I would throw in a bit of geopolitcal posturing in that 1) going against China might look a little too much aligning with the US and 2) not pissing off China keeps some sort of partnership with China and it's deep pockets open in the future.

trasz 4y ago
Only a little over 30 years ago USA rolled out its police to blow up its own citizens, razing entire city block: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing. They didn't need to deny or cover up anything, obviously nobody got punished for this, because the victims were black. So, yeah, while the Western people can certainly voice their opinion, it's often because their opinion doesn't matter. ("According to an article in The Lancet, between 1980 and 2018, more than 30,000 were killed by the police", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enfor...)
- refurb 4y ago
  Did you read your own link? The "Aftermath" section where several courts condemned those actions and awarded substantial awards to the victims. The City apologized. Independent commissions condemned the decision. Can you please list all of the acts of restitution that the Chinese government has done since 1989? Oh, and ignoring all that, you're posting an awful lot of whataboutisms. I count about 9 of them so far. What game are you playing?
  - cies 4y ago
    While you are right, I think GP still has a point. Those responsible for the MOVE massacre walked from it. The broader point I think GP tries to make is: the west should not be so quick to point fingers, especially not while it's own fingers are covered in blood. The US likes to same "human rights violations" about other nations, but then commits many themselves every year, and claims to be above the The Hague court. I also believe the US has not right to use those terms while it is still misbahaving on such a large scale.

EvilSpark 4y ago

mytailorisrich 4y ago

> The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region Not really. Islam has been present in China for over a thousand years, and the Uyghurs do not represent the majority of muslims in the country, which are actually the Hui (ethnic Chinese who converted) and outside of Xinjiang. For the Chinese government this is a question of national unity against separatist movements, which is a more ethnic than religious problem, and political control. I'm thinking that they actually prefer Islam, which is unstructured, to the Catholic Church (hence action they regularly take against it) although, obviously from a communist stand-point no religion at all is the best option, and so Islam is not really singled out. Many muslim countries also have strategic interests in having good relations with China, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan, and thus abstain from raising any issues, not least since China has also the advantage of not being involved in the Middle East and of keeping a neutral stance there. Now, there are anti-Chinese terrorist attacks in Pakistan but everyone tries hard to keep a lid of them for these reasons. If anything, and cynically, the West would very much like muslim extremists to turn their attention more towards China because obviously that would be destabilising for China, and so the anti-islam narrative is pushed at every turn.

truthwhisperer 4y ago

thematrixturtle 4y ago

It's more complicated than that. The majority of China's Muslims are Hui, who are ethnically Han Chinese and thus not considered an existential threat to the state. The Uyghurs, on the other hand, are genetically and linguistically different, live in territory that was not originally Chinese (Xinjiang literally means "New Territory") and would genuinely prefer to have their own state. Of course, the CCP is very averse to any power structures they don't completely control and thus regularly cracks down on all sorts of organized religion (Christian churches, Falun Gong, etc).

throwaway290 4y ago
> Hui Muslims employed by the state, unlike Uyghurs, are allowed to fast during Ramadan. The number of Hui going on Hajj is expanding and Hui women are allowed to wear veils, but Uyghur women are discouraged from wearing them. Muslim ethnic groups in different regions are treated differently by the Chinese government with regard to religious freedom. Religious freedom exists for Hui Muslims, who can practice their religion, build mosques and have their children attend them; more controls are placed on Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Hui religious schools are allowed, and an autonomous network of mosques and schools run by a Hui Sufi leader was formed with the approval of the Chinese government. So yeah, this is not directed at Muslims so much as it's directed at people of Uyghur ethnicity very specifically. It almost looks like CCP would like to keep the territory, but without the inconvenient indigenous people. And they use a mix of apartheid (which just by itself is already an internationally recognized crime against humanity) and a bunch of activities at least adjacent to genocide to get there.

tsss 4y ago

Religion is only an excuse for hate and violence. Most of the population has already found their favorite enemy in the west, primarily USA, Germany, Israel. State actors and other powerful people have nothing to gain by antagonizing China, who doesn't give a damn. Wait until there is a border dispute between China and Pakistan and suddenly the Muslim world will care about Xinjiang.

ciphol 4y ago
Good thing then that we have atheist countries like China who never use violence against anyone...

throwaway052422 4y ago

Conversely, I've seen many people in the U.S. argue that terrorist attacks from extremists justified a harsh national security response when the attacks happen to countries like the United States or Israel. Then these same people completely ignore the numerous terrorist attacks from extremists that China has faced[1], and say a strong national security response is completely unjustified. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Terrorist_incidents_by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Terrorist_i...

ciphol 4y ago
Nobody argues that attacks on the US or Israel justify the US or Israel putting their Muslim population into camps like China does.
- throwaway052422 4y ago
  Many neutral observers agree that Gaza has been turned into a defacto open air concentration camp, a small plot of land that Israel and Egypt keep people and supplies from freely moving about, and assert military control over. Naturally, people sympathetic to the government will try to paint it in a better light, but the same is true with Xinjiang. Things are never 100% the same, so people can always argue "When _I_ do it it's different." For instance, people in Xinjiang are Chinese citizens, and when they leave the camps they can go anywhere in China, and have the same legal rights. People in Gaza, conversely, are supposed to be members for life, with restricted rights, and this is to be a generational condition (many children are stuck in Gaza as well).

rayiner 4y ago

My impression is that most Muslims don’t real care about Muslims from other ethnic groups. Pakistan and Bangladesh, for example, are happy to suck up to China for the business opportunities. Similarly, the gulf states took few Syrian refugees during the recent crises: https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Syrian-refugees-why-won-t-the-oil-rich-Gulf-States-take-them-in_a3477.html https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Syrian-refugees-why-wo.... More generally, Arabs regard non-Arab Muslims as barely human—e.g. holding Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in near slavery conditions: https://sports.yahoo.com/qatar-world-cup-unpaid-workers-slavery-fifa-amnesty-international-193121993.html https://sports.yahoo.com/qatar-world-cup-unpaid-workers-slav...

deleted 4y ago
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ashwagary 4y ago
>My impression is that most Muslims don’t real care about Muslims from other ethnic groups. It's the same reason most "Muslims" don't "care" about Al Qaeda and ISIS. Many Muslim populations, just like the Chinese, are negatively affected by Uighur terrorist and extremist groups. "Southeast Asia is witnessing evolving security risks from Chinese Uyghurs' involvement in military activities in the region." https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/26351495.pdf https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/26351495.pdf
- Sporktacular 4y ago
  Yet more muslims have died fighting AQ and ISIS than any other religious group. Weird right?
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    >more muslims have died fighting AQ and ISIS than any other religious group I think we are making the same point. Some of the largest muslim countries (Indonesia, Pakistan) don't have sympathy for many Chinese Uyghur groups because once they leave China, they train with ISIS/Al Qaeda then plan and commit terrorist acts around Asia. Many believe the Chinese are doing them a favor with their detention and deradicalization programs.

eternalban 4y ago

The Xinjiang matter is bound up with: (a) the understanding that China is a rising superpower that the West wishes to contain; (b) it has nothing to do with the religion itself (given that China and Islam have a long history of coexistence); (c) that the strain of Islam of concern to Chinese authorities is the same strain used by West to conjure up the Taliban (which then gave us ISIS); and (d) knowledge of the fact that even as way back as the 4th 'Rightly Guided' khalif (Ali ibn abu Taleb) Muslim authorities themselves tended to view extremist and radical views of Islam with concern. There is a strange belief in the West that Muslims have been historically permissive to extremists religious positions whereas the actual facts are entirely contrary. Two other hot button 'types' that you refer to are: 1 - Explicit derogatory attacks on Islam. 2 - Resisting a colonization effort that has had brutally adverse and tragic consequences for both Muslim and Christian populations of the contested colonial grounds.

berdario 4y ago

Part of the problem is that it's difficult to trust any of these documents. It seems that in this latest dump there are some that are blatantly forged. Even if the others are genuine, this calls into question the veracity of the others https://twitter.com/Cinqscories/status/1529035490032340993 https://twitter.com/Cinqscories/status/1529035490032340993

jhugasd 4y ago
Wow those are really bad fakes... You would think they at least hire someone to write simplified chinese
glenstein 4y ago
A lot of what's going on in that tweet you cited is hard to decipher without stepping back and taking stock of the context. For instance, I don't know what to make of the significance of a cursor being visible in a document that is dumped (it might be a big deal, or it might not be at all) and I don't know how motivated the party is here to use that to prove a particular argument, or what it should or shouldn't prove. In this case, you apparently have to be already bought in with the idea that BBC and Le Monde have a history of using fabricated info from the U.N., and that a reporter is untrustworthy for reasons explained at length in an entirely different twitter thread that you'd have to read to understand. After being that bought in, the fact that BBC, Le Monde, and/or this reporter are involved is treated as evidence in and of itself that the new info is unreliable. You have to agree with all that to even start in the middle and begin going through this analysis. To state it plainly, whenever I see something like this that starts so deep in the middle of unexplained context, I treat it like an "indicator" (in the sense of an economic indicator) against the argument, because it feels like I'm being asked to skip critical steps.
- fps_doug 4y ago
  "I don't believe it because I'm missing context" is a weak argument to make. The tweets read like the author isn't a native English speaker. The traditional vs. simplified characters accusation should be relatively easy to confirm if you want to put in at least a little effort. Looking up characters as someone who isn't familiar with them at all might be cumbersome but is absolutely possible. But then again you wonder why such blatant mistakes would be made in the first place, if this was done by someone at least halfway professional.

qiskit 4y ago

> I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation What international muslim community? And if one existed, why would the international muslim community care about US/European funded anti-china propaganda which has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with ethnic separatism. We hate muslims. Killed millions of muslims. We hate chinese people. Killed millions of chinese people. But somehow we care about chinese muslims? How does that work? Why is it we are trying to pit chinese and muslims against each other? > The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region Did china become zionist all of a sudden? Also, I thought it was a genocide? What happened to the millions of uyghurs that was "exterminated"? What happened to the death camps? What happened to the millions of organs? They are trying to extinguish separatism. > But maybe any reactions just don't make mainstream news. Because it's literally manufactured propaganda that nobody believes. There are vlogs of muslims traveling to china all over social media. First it was a genocide. Millions dead. Death camps all over china. That proved to be nonsense. Then it was cultural genocide. That proved to be nonsense. Now it's religious genocide. Which is even more laughable. The ughyurs aren't even the largest muslim ethnic group in china. If you ever doubted that the media/news/etc were truly propaganda, just look into the uyghur "genocide". The media with the government agencies invented a genocide.

vmception 4y ago

Okay this is some amusing and problematic cognitive dissonance. The West gets attacked because of its military occupations in Mesopotamia. That is the criteria for Jihad. Any random teenage edgelord that happens to be Muslim can always take the pedantic “its my duty” approach at any time. The vast majority do not, any slight provocation from then on encourages that sentiment. China’s approach avoids this because they have no military occupation of traditionally muslim lands. That approach has worked better for China’s national security while operating in islamic areas, they invest and have been masterful at it. The Western/US approach never factored in its own national security, or any attempt at understanding Islam, and its been a disaster for its people and a boon to its defense contractors. The key point is that its never been about “rising up on behalf of all muslims being oppressed” its always been about “excising a cancer from traditionally islamic lands”. And that makes inaction towards Xinjiang and the plight of the Uighurs make way more sense, than the fundamentally rocky assumption that action from some unspecified Muslim people is expected to occur. Secondly, some Uighars have already done the terror attacks within China, over “small things”. Long before the massive dragnet and crackdown. This is where China’s identity politics come into play, that some other commenters have pointed out. China’s domestic stance and behavior isn't really about Muslims, its about “territorial unity” with an undercurrent of ethnic discrimination. But ultimately the Uighers are on their own, and East Turkistan isn't going to be a thing.

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_tik_ 4y ago

I am from a Muslim country. There are a few reasons that I can think of: China is not targeting Islam but the separatist movement. There are few Muslim ethnic groups in China. The other is Hui. The hui enjoys normal religious life without any prosecutions. The problem of Radical Islam. The rise of Radical Islam the last few years. Some of this group preaches violence and seperatism. Many Moslim feel unconfortable with the Radical Islam and prefer the govt to deal with them. The Hui Muslim does not get long well with Uighur Muslim. The Hui are motsly Sufi and anti Salafi. Most Muslim distrust western politic and news.

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago

I think there's a lot of suspicion in most Muslim countries towards the motives of the US government when it accuses China of genocide. Over the last 20 years, the US has waged war in predominantly Muslim countries. A conservative estimate is that the US is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslim civilians over the last 20 years, in wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and many other countries. Add to that US support for Israel, and US support for Saudi Arabia's horrific war in Yemen, and the US has essentially no credibility when it claims to be oh so concerned with the rights of Muslims in China. In this light, the US' accusations against China over Xinjiang look like cynical political posturing. The obviously hyperbolic nature of the accusations (including deploying the word "genocide," despite the complete lack of evidence that any mass killing is occurring) just make the US' posture on this issue look even more cynical and crass.