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The Xinjiang Police Files

382 points by int_10h 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rasphino 4y ago
I am Chinese. I took a look at some of these "key documents", but I don't know what is wrong. 1. For the "Education Training Center" or the so-called "Re-education Camp", the intake rules from "Vocational Skills Education Training Center Intake Examination and Registration System"[1] says: "对符合规定条件应予收押的犯罪嫌疑人、被告人，应当对其人身和携带的物品进行严格检查，对女性的人身检查，应当由女工作人员进行。". From Google translation (if you don't understand Chinese lol), it means "Criminal suspects and defendants who meet the prescribed conditions and should be taken into custody shall be subject to strict inspections of their persons and their belongings, and the physical inspection of women shall be carried out by female staff members." (btw the english version of this document is not so accurate). I think it is very clear that those detainee are criminal suspects or defendants, so my question is, is it wrong to detain these guys? 2. About the environment of the "Education Training Center". From "System for Vocational Skill Education and Training Center Detainees Leaving the School for Medical Treatment"[2], the detainees can leave the "camp" for medical treatment, but need to be escorted, and cannot contact with other people. From "Education and Training Center Management System for Calls to Relatives (Trial Implementation)"[3], the detainees can call their relatives every 10 days. What surprises me is the rule 6, which says when the detainee's family is in need, the grassroot (草根, the community office) needs to find a solution to help them and gets back to the detainee. Anything wrong about this? [1]: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Vocational-Skills-Education-Training-Center-Intake-Examination-and-Registration-System.pdf https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/... [2]: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/System-for-Vocational-Skill-Education-and-Training-Center-Detainees-Leaving-the-School-for-Medical-Treatment.pdf https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/... [3]: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Education-and-Training-Center-Management-System-for-Calls-to-Relatives-Trial-Implementation.pdf https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/...
- redwood 4y ago
  Circular logic without due process. You don't just become a criminal because a totalitarian government says you're one, at least not by the standards of the rest of us. In other words: careful just because you're Han doesn't mean you won't be next
bradleykingz 4y ago
The hacker must have trouble walking around... y'know, because of his gigantic balls? All jokes aside, I wonder how denialists will react to this. And I'm curious how China will attempt to explain this away. Can't wait for more detailed reports to come out. BBC's report [1] has been particularly interesting so far. I wonder what happens next. 1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- trasz 4y ago
  - sofixa 4y ago
    > It’s just that it’s not all that different from prison Except for it's reason for existence ( forced cultural assimilation aka genocide) and it's methods, which include forced sterilisations alongside the regular torture?
    - Koiwai 4y ago
      There's no valid evidence of that.
      - ninjin 4y ago
        Well, I am sure that independent investigators will be welcomed with open arms any moment now to set the record straight. I am being facetious of course, because wherever these kinds of events transpire (and regardless of the alleged perpetrator) there seemingly magically pops up barriers to establishing what is actually going on.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        What would be valid evidence? The post we're discussing, alongside the years of reporting, seem pretty valid to me.
GameOfFrowns 4y ago
- chrischen 4y ago
  Could you explain his controversy (I wasn't able to find anything on a quick Google search)?
  - oreally 4y ago
    Here's a quora: https://www.quora.com/How-credible-are-Adrian-Zenz-one-of-the-primary-publishers-of-Chinese-mistreatment-of-Uighurs-and-his-findings https://www.quora.com/How-credible-are-Adrian-Zenz-one-of-th... and a quote: " Zenz’ academic qualifications, much touted, don’t stand up to much scrutiny. His h-index is 12, about a quarter of the 40 that a ‘good’ academic should have, especially a mid-career 47-year old. His roles are all with anti-China think tanks, not academic positions. He’s in a bubble of anti-Communism and anti-China funding and thinking, not in academia. " And I recall a whole google doc on Adrian Zenz's research somewhere on reddit too. And to add in a more geopolitical element, China is the rising power to western hegemony, and this is part of the west's image smearing techniques - pick an story that pushes a narrative you want against an adversary, and don't verify it thoroughly. Points like 'the US has bombed muslim countries for a decade and now they're suddenly like 'oh we love muslims'' still stand strong. Be aware of that.
    - signatoremo 4y ago
      H-index is about number of academic publications, which isn’t very relevant to this topic, as it’s exceedingly difficult, not to mention dangerous, to gather data about Xinjang. > this is part of the west's image smearing techniques Smearing techniques aren’t solely employed by the west, as attempts to attack the author’s character in this thread can attest
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      At the end of the day, if all the claims about Xinjiang are false and everything is really peachy and rosey as the CCP claims it to be, then they should allow 100% absolute freedom of the press to go in and check it out. That will however never happen because it's clearly obvious there is something to hide. So far all the CCP has done is allow some journalists to go to specific areas, are followed and controlled and forced to abide by rules and procedures designed to ensure that the CCP sets the narrative. Influencers are taken on tours to the same places, shown the exact same things, etc, and all this happens 100 miles away from where the re-education camps are apparently located. So who do we believe? The guy who is waving a flag saying "guys look at whats going on" or the guy who is saying "you can't come and see here, that guy is lying, hes a liar! He has no credentials, he's western propaganda, hes fake news. There's no need to come here and see anything cos he's lying"
acgt 4y ago
Hard to watch. Reminder me of the torturing at Guantánamo Bay detention camp.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  How so? It seems to be to completely different levels.
  - dillondoyle 4y ago
    Completely different scale, they are a government perpetrating genocide on their own citizens, could go on and on how they aren't the same. But the top photo of prisoner with hood and handcuffs and brutish looking military/security look very similar to some of the gross photos we saw of abuse at gitmo. Might be me putting too much emotion onto it but the guard with the bat looks like a smirk, like how the criminals at gitmo enjoyed abusing and taking those photos.
    - DFHippie 4y ago
      I think you're confusing Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib. It's the latter where sadistic guards took photos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone... Ugh. The pictures in that article are horrendous. The "patriots" will say (and in fact do say -- see the linked article about Lyndie England) that the real crime is not the acts committed but making them public. The same is true of course in China with Tiananmen Square or in Russia with the current military operation. It's funny how self-declared patriots seem to specialize in making the rest of the world hate and revile their country.
      - dillondoyle 4y ago
        I am you're right ;( Sad that you can confuse those. the photos from gitmo aren't nearly as bad, probably because there aren't many. Most I've seen are just those through the fence photos, again looks too similar to China's concentration camps.
__alexs 4y ago
Every great nation is built on unspeakably evil things like this. It seems almost like it's part of the cost of entry to being a super power. This isn't an apology for China. It's about time they moved to the 'maturity' stage of an empires life.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
4ggr0 4y ago
I hope that this is a genuine leak showing what's going on there. Just don't like the organisation behind this leak, at all, and don't really trust them. But as long as this leak is objective I can ignore this aspect. Really sickening to see what's going on in Xinjiang. EDIT: I said it's sickening to see what's going on and i strongly oppose what China is doing in Xinjang, am I really getting downvotes just because I don't like the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation"?
- Maakuth 4y ago
  I suppose it would be helpful if you provided some grounds on why you do not trust this foundation. There are other messages in this discussion showing distrust in the foundation and Dr. Zenz, but none provide background for that.
  - throwaway4good 4y ago
    They are untrustworthy because they are driven by strong anti-communist ideology.
    - ginko 4y ago
      Surely being opposed to authoritarian single-party rule isn't enough to be considered untrustworthy.
    - Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
      It's a false believe that only those who declare neutrality can tell the truth and everything said by anyone with an agenda must be a lie made to further their goals. On the contrary those who strive for/against something have the energy required to uncover truth, to tell it again and again even when facing opposition. Yes we want neutral journalism, but that means to look at all sides and verify the facts, it does not mean to completely disregard something because a source is not neutral. It does not mean to disregard facts because they align with some ideology. We also want neutral judges, but when the accused says they did not do the crime, and accuser says they did, and the evidence says they did, the neutral judge should not disregard the evidence because it aligns with one side. That is not what neutrality means.
throwaway4good 4y ago
Both Zenz and “Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation” are colored by heavy ideology and this campaign is obviously timed with the UN human rights chiefs current visit in Xinjiang. The latter has some promise of shining light on the actual situation and provide some marginal improvements on the ground, whereas the former … well … won’t rest until China is split into a million pieces post soviet style.
shellfishgene 4y ago
I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe any reactions just don't make mainstream news.
- throwaway4good 4y ago
  The short answer is that the Uyghur cause has been mostly promoted by American neo-conservative pro-Israel interests. (This maybe changing though.)
- duairc 4y ago
  > I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. You're not imagining this — Muslim countries support China. See this map of a UN vote to condemn China's treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang[1]. You'll notice that every Muslim country that didn't abstain defended China. In fact the only countries that condemned China are countries that are militarily allied with the United States. If you look at any of the "NGOs" that push the narrative that China is oppressing Muslims in Xinjiang, every single one of them is funded either by the National Endowment for Democracy[2][3][4] (an arm of the US State Department notorious for pushing regime change in countries the US doesn't like) or the Australian Strategic Policy Initiative, which in turn is sponsored by several US arms manufacturers[5], such as Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc. — all of whom would profit massively from a war with China, for which this narrative is manufacturing consent. Even the site that spawned this discussion seems to be associated with Adrian Zenz. A lot of the claims in Xinjiang can be traced back to his "work". He's a fundamentalist Christian bigot, is a fellow at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation" and claims to have been sent on a mission by God himself to destroy the Communist Party of China. His "work" has been thoroughly debunked many times over.[6] Frankly, the narrative is bullshit. The Muslim world that has suffered massively at the hands of US imperialism can see right through it and votes accordingly. China has never invaded or bombed any Muslim country. The US has no credibility in the Muslim world. [1]: https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map/index.html?initialWidth=703&childId=av-2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map-EN6ID&parentTitle=More%20countries%20join%20condemnation%20of%20China%20over%20Xinjiang%20abuses&parentUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2F2020%2F10%2F08%2Fun-statement-china-uighurs-xinjiang https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statement... [2]: https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-china-2021/ https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-chin... [3]: https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congress/ https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congre... [4]: https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on-work-of-ned-grantees/ https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on... [5]: https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors [6]: https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad0babb9fb.html https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad...
throwawaywig 4y ago
What China doing is wrong. But there is no doubt it is not anti-Islam. It is a xenophobic act. China has another big community of Muslims known as the Hui Muslims. They practice Sufism, a much more non-radical version of Islam. They practice Chinese culture, they build their mosques in Chinese architectural styles. They do not face any kind of "re-education" camps. Read more: [1]: https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim-minorities/ https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim... [2]: https://www.dw.com/en/the-hui-chinas-preferred-muslims/a-36699666 https://www.dw.com/en/the-hui-chinas-preferred-muslims/a-366... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people [4]: https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/ https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-is...
dragonelite 4y ago
uuhm what a timing just when UN sends a inspector to xinjiang this website shows up xD..
- ChemSpider 4y ago
  Human rights organizations and investigative press should and must plan for maximum exposure. Very clever timing and I congratulate whoever planned that. Had that been released e. g. 3 days after the Russian attack on Ukraine started, hardly anybody would have noticed.
- dgellow 4y ago
  That's how you create awareness of the problem.
tragomaskhalos 4y ago
The calls for affirmative action against China had a very low probability of bearing fruit beforehand, but since the Russian invasion of Ukraine I would put them at 0% - no sane politician wants to do anything that will push the Chinese further into common ground with Russia.
- aasasd 4y ago
  Just FYI, China doesn't care about the ‘common ground’ with Russia, and their cooperation mostly comes to China wanting Chinese companies to build infrastructure projects in Russia and receive fat checks for that. China keeps Russia away from its trade to the extent that they built train routes to Europe almost next to Russia through several neighboring countries. China's response to the invasion of Ukraine was: “Such conflicts should be solved with diplomacy”. I'm no expert, but as far as I can tell, the decision to do anything about China comes from the population of their main trade partner the US—specifically depending on whether those people ever decide that they can do fine without cheap tech and tsatskes from China.
- cies 4y ago
  A little like "The calls for affirmative action against US [for Guatanamo] had a very low probability of bearing fruit" It's like the large states can just do horrible things to people without every being punished!
TomGullen 4y ago
The photo of the woman on the BBC article is very powerful https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...
langsoul-com 4y ago
Someone is gonna get jailed for this leak.
- layer8 4y ago
  The files where obtained by hacking into their systems, presumably from outside China.
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    That's too bad. It means we can't use Twitter to publicize it: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materials https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materi...
dirtyid 4y ago
[flagged]
- femto 4y ago
  A casual Google search will turn up evidence. Just one example of many: Uyghur workers, complete with police guards, are being supplied to factories throughout China. "Another new advertisement claimed to be able to supply 1,000 Uyghur workers aged 16 to 18 years. It reads: ‘The advantages of Xinjiang workers are: semi-military style management, can withstand hardship, no loss of personnel … Minimum order 100 workers!’. The advertisement also said that factory managers can apply for current Xinjiang police to be stationed at their factory 24 hours a day, and that the workers could be delivered (along with an Uyghur cook) within 15 days of the signing of a one-year contract (Figure 9)." https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale Another piece of evidence: comprehensive mapping of a network of 380 detention facilities: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/explainers/exploring-xinjiangs-detention-facilities/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/explainers/exploring-xinjiangs-dete... This page, "The Xinjiang Data Project", hosts a series of ongoing reports and data from Xinjiang: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/
  - dirtyid 4y ago
    Yeah a casual google search lead straight to US/AU funded ASPI propaganda and other western MSM that tries to portray CCP dickwaving publically about poverty alleviation via Rural Labour Transfer Programs that has employed tens millions in every province in PRC as forced labour. ASPI report was follow up by Zenz from Jamestown that this is coerce labour, laundered by MSM as slave labour, used by US gov to coordinate XJ sanctions. That's how the playook works. Pieces bury context that pay is above regional income, companies are subsidized or pressured by gov to take on these workers that no one wants, which uplifts them substantially above 600M rural Chinese in informal economy stuck on 1000rmb / month that already havel language skills to and better suited to be productive workers. PRC has no shortage of excess Han labourers. All the current "mapping projects" consistently conflate schools and other facilities with detention camps to boost the numbers because security features found in schools all over PRC somehow = concentration camp in XJ. There's a reason for resorting to commercial satellite imaging with shit spatial resolution to weave narrative, because they can't get any compelling info on ground, but even lack of access doesn't explain the sheer inability to find any compelling photo/video evidence to support their genocide/slave labour narrative in ~10 years, nowhere in PRC is that opaque. The other component of data project tracks cultural erasure, whic is fair, rapidly developing Chinese regions with high YoY GDP growth that aggressives purges everything old does that with helping hand of state coordinated sinicization efforts. But TBF cultural assimilation has alwasy been permissible toolkit of state.
1vonzhang 4y ago
1. The populated of "genocided" Uyghur ethnic group has increased from 10.17 million to 12.71 million from 2010 to 2018. This sort of contradicts with the concept of genocide. The increase rate of ~25% is higher than Xinjiang ~14% and much higher than the main ethnic group Han ~2%. 2. I personally tried really hard to track down a source that DOESN'T ULTIMATELY LEAD TO ADRIAN ZENZ but has failed to do so. As GameOfFrowns commented earlier, he is at a position with many reasons to fabricate/exaggerate negative facts against China. If hundreds of articles from many different organizations/countries are based on one single person, it's hard for me not to regard this Adrian Zenz as a pretense. Even interviews with so-called family relatives are connected to this magical Zenz. Many BBC reports/articles claims a resource of "some investigation" or "some research" that either leads to nowhere or to Adrian Zenz. If one claims that it's barely possible to know what's really happening in an authoritarian country, these reports are at least as untrustworthy as China's claims. It's even more amazing that Adrian Zenz has this power to do the investigation that all other organizations/governments cannot do. 3. My personal option: China started this so-called educational camp because of the peak of terrorism in Xinjiang in 2009. And it's very possible that the anti-terrorism action went beyond what it should have. Investigations, evidence etc. should be encouraged to correct any mistake that have happened and prevent them from happening in the future. That being said, if this motive also goes beyond what it should be and turns into a means against China, the accusation makes no difference from what's accused of.
- tnjm 4y ago
  If you read the UN definition of genocide [0], you'll see that a population increase doesn't contradict (the UN concept of) genocide at all. The key is intent. [0] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
  - legalcorrection 4y ago
    A convenient sleight of hand for international liberals. To the average person, genocide means extermination by mass murder. So people make that incredibly damning accusation, and then when it's pointed out that no such thing is happening, they retreat into a technical definition that no one outside of the NGO/activist world cares or knows about.
sva_ 4y ago
Looking through some of those detainee pictures, it is almost all men, and some older women. Gruesome implication. But I only looked through some.
- qiskit 4y ago
  > Looking through some of those detainee pictures, it is almost all men, and some older women Makes a mockery of the "genocide" claim. If there was an actual genocide, it would be men, women and children. Like you see during the holocaust.
- layer8 4y ago
  I’m reminded of reports of systematic rape like these: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071
- sizzle 4y ago
  Did you see the same thing I saw? Cause you can filter by age by hitting the hamburger menu icon and there were 2000+ females returned under 30 years old that I didn’t have the heart to verify scrolling through the mugshots, it really gutted me and made it painful to see this blatant miscarriage of Justice. Everyone please go and try out the age filter, it is frightening and highly effective in humanizing the plight of these people to say the absolute least. Something needs to be done for these oppressed humans.
  - sva_ 4y ago
    I didn't look too deeply, as I said.
    - alanh 4y ago
      Maybe you should spend half a minutes checking to see if what you are suggestion is supported by available data before starting a conversation about it
      - 4y ago
aasasd 4y ago
As we saw after the invasion of Ukraine, the West can mount a swift, concerted and effective response, that deals a lot of damage to the offending country's economy. I'm sure that evidence of Xinjiang crimes will invoke the same kind of decisive action.
- cnlevy 4y ago
  Decisive action ? We are far too economically dependent on China for anything comparable to Russia. In fact the only products the West depends on Russia, gas and oil have not been sanctioned !
- sgift 4y ago
  And non-western countries were very adamant that Ukraine is an European problem and they don't want to take sides. Why exactly is it the responsibility of "the West" to do something first? Let other countries take the lead for once instead of sitting on the sidelines and crying that whatever the West does or doesn't is wrong.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Ukrainians are white. Don't underestimate the impact of that.
  - fennecfoxy 4y ago
    Ukraine is a part of Europe, Europe responded. The US has heavy ties/trade relationships with Europe and so they responded, too. I imagine if it was Taiwan that US/Europe would've sent aid to them all the same. When it comes to Israel/Palestine and other conflicts the situation there is a lot more complicated when it comes to international relations/obligations as well as the duration and the history of the conflict. That isn't to say, however, that any conflict isn't a tragedy and that hoomans shouldn't just stop it with the tribal, evolutionary-path inspired antics already.
- watwut 4y ago
  It happened only after it turned out Ukraine has own army able to do the bloody part by themselves. No western army is fighting there. It is also funny how you ignore role of Eastern European countries who engaged heavily in the matter. While I distinctively recall non-westerners arguments on HN about how "Russia treats Ukraine with kids gloves" or "America did bad things and therefore it is OK for Russia to invade Ukraine" (somehow punishing Ukrainians for American history). Or how "since countries around Ukraine did not locked Ukrainians inside, they are bad nah, I will not talk about how our own countries treats refugees nah". "It is unfair to provide material support to Ukraine, unless you are willing to also invade and occupy China over their crimes" is not particularly strong argument. Especially not if the fully expected corollary is "but if you do what we now demand we will blame you for international aggression".
gullevek 4y ago
Host already gone. So China did its work.
- femto 4y ago
  Can anyone from Cloudflare comment on why the site is down?
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    HTTP 502 hints at upstream error which makes me think it's not been set up with sufficiently aggressive caching at CDN level, meaning if someone DoSes Cloudflare then Cloudflare DoSes Xinjiang Police Files. This would be the most charitable scenario.
dontbenebby 4y ago
Hi int_10h, Thanks for posting this interesting link! I'm surprised Cloudflare is blocking me from viewing this site via Tor Browser from one of my favorite cyber cafés. Instead I need to load a domain that's going to put me on all sorts of... radar... and enable Javascript? Feels bad man. Oh, look, now as I try to access it I'm getting a 520 error, let's throw a !wayback shebang into the search bar since I already made sure to set my search engine as... uh... not Bing. Ahhh, here we go. https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji... For context, I'm from the suburbs of Pittsburgh, and seriously considered joining the FBI when I left college, but ironically the reason I didn't was because they never sorted out how to handle to the duality of the counter intel mission with the more traditional stuff like... busting bank robbers. I'm going to get up every morning and make posts like this on the internet, with the same damn defcon bag next to me I have for over ten years. - Greg from Troop 262 PS: And Mike Nelson, if you're reading this, sorry I called you while you're driving, you could have let it go to voicemail rather than pick up then being angry you're talking on the phone while you're driving -- you know I'm always willing to reply :-)
throwaway290 4y ago
https://archive.is/dOl6x https://archive.is/dOl6x or https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji..., more images load
ineiti 4y ago
The wayback machine has you: https://web.archive.org/web/20220524092913/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524092913/https://www.xinji... Unfortunately the documents haven't been saved before the site went down :(
- femto 4y ago
  A more recent snapshot looks to have got it all: https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji... (Thanks to throwaway290)
Sporktacular 4y ago
Can anyone suggest a mirror? It's up and down.
ma_advertising 4y ago
i wonder how religion is still a thing amoung the presumably educated people of HN
einpoklum 4y ago
Adrian Zenz is a fundamentalist Christian who has declared he is on some kind of quest from god to bring down Communist China. He's made multiple baseless accusations in the past such as there supposedly being a genocide of the Uyghurs. See: https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/ https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-...
- akhmatova 4y ago
  He's made multiple baseless accusations in the past such as there supposedly being a genocide of the Uyghurs. It's perfectly possible for an assertion to be both: (1) promoted by crank, and (2) entirely substantiated on its own merits, independent of whatever crank might say about it. One such example would be the ongoing fact of the genocide currently in reality (not "supposedly") underway against the Uyghur population in China.
  - einpoklum 4y ago
    > It's perfectly possible etc. that's true. However, when essentially all mainstream and government claims are based on said crank's claims, and in line with government interests, that is very suspicious. > One such example would be the ongoing fact To the best of our knowledge, that is a false statement. There is no genocide underway. You only have (1.), not (2.).
    - akhmatova 4y ago
      When essentially all mainstream and government claims are based on said crank's claims, Which they manifestly are not. The evidence is overwhelming, and comes from numerous independent sources. There is no genocide underway. If you want to live in that universe, that's fine for you.

382 points by int_10h 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

I am Chinese. I took a look at some of these "key documents", but I don't know what is wrong. 1. For the "Education Training Center" or the so-called "Re-education Camp", the intake rules from "Vocational Skills Education Training Center Intake Examination and Registration System"[1] says: "对符合规定条件应予收押的犯罪嫌疑人、被告人，应当对其人身和携带的物品进行严格检查，对女性的人身检查，应当由女工作人员进行。". From Google translation (if you don't understand Chinese lol), it means "Criminal suspects and defendants who meet the prescribed conditions and should be taken into custody shall be subject to strict inspections of their persons and their belongings, and the physical inspection of women shall be carried out by female staff members." (btw the english version of this document is not so accurate). I think it is very clear that those detainee are criminal suspects or defendants, so my question is, is it wrong to detain these guys? 2. About the environment of the "Education Training Center". From "System for Vocational Skill Education and Training Center Detainees Leaving the School for Medical Treatment"[2], the detainees can leave the "camp" for medical treatment, but need to be escorted, and cannot contact with other people. From "Education and Training Center Management System for Calls to Relatives (Trial Implementation)"[3], the detainees can call their relatives every 10 days. What surprises me is the rule 6, which says when the detainee's family is in need, the grassroot (草根, the community office) needs to find a solution to help them and gets back to the detainee. Anything wrong about this? [1]: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Vocational-Skills-Education-Training-Center-Intake-Examination-and-Registration-System.pdf https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/... [2]: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/System-for-Vocational-Skill-Education-and-Training-Center-Detainees-Leaving-the-School-for-Medical-Treatment.pdf https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/... [3]: https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Education-and-Training-Center-Management-System-for-Calls-to-Relatives-Trial-Implementation.pdf https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/...

redwood 4y ago
Circular logic without due process. You don't just become a criminal because a totalitarian government says you're one, at least not by the standards of the rest of us. In other words: careful just because you're Han doesn't mean you won't be next

bradleykingz 4y ago

The hacker must have trouble walking around... y'know, because of his gigantic balls? All jokes aside, I wonder how denialists will react to this. And I'm curious how China will attempt to explain this away. Can't wait for more detailed reports to come out. BBC's report [1] has been particularly interesting so far. I wonder what happens next. 1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
trasz 4y ago
- sofixa 4y ago
  > It’s just that it’s not all that different from prison Except for it's reason for existence ( forced cultural assimilation aka genocide) and it's methods, which include forced sterilisations alongside the regular torture?
  - Koiwai 4y ago
    There's no valid evidence of that.
    - ninjin 4y ago
      Well, I am sure that independent investigators will be welcomed with open arms any moment now to set the record straight. I am being facetious of course, because wherever these kinds of events transpire (and regardless of the alleged perpetrator) there seemingly magically pops up barriers to establishing what is actually going on.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      What would be valid evidence? The post we're discussing, alongside the years of reporting, seem pretty valid to me.

GameOfFrowns 4y ago

chrischen 4y ago
Could you explain his controversy (I wasn't able to find anything on a quick Google search)?
- oreally 4y ago
  Here's a quora: https://www.quora.com/How-credible-are-Adrian-Zenz-one-of-the-primary-publishers-of-Chinese-mistreatment-of-Uighurs-and-his-findings https://www.quora.com/How-credible-are-Adrian-Zenz-one-of-th... and a quote: " Zenz’ academic qualifications, much touted, don’t stand up to much scrutiny. His h-index is 12, about a quarter of the 40 that a ‘good’ academic should have, especially a mid-career 47-year old. His roles are all with anti-China think tanks, not academic positions. He’s in a bubble of anti-Communism and anti-China funding and thinking, not in academia. " And I recall a whole google doc on Adrian Zenz's research somewhere on reddit too. And to add in a more geopolitical element, China is the rising power to western hegemony, and this is part of the west's image smearing techniques - pick an story that pushes a narrative you want against an adversary, and don't verify it thoroughly. Points like 'the US has bombed muslim countries for a decade and now they're suddenly like 'oh we love muslims'' still stand strong. Be aware of that.
  - signatoremo 4y ago
    H-index is about number of academic publications, which isn’t very relevant to this topic, as it’s exceedingly difficult, not to mention dangerous, to gather data about Xinjang. > this is part of the west's image smearing techniques Smearing techniques aren’t solely employed by the west, as attempts to attack the author’s character in this thread can attest
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    At the end of the day, if all the claims about Xinjiang are false and everything is really peachy and rosey as the CCP claims it to be, then they should allow 100% absolute freedom of the press to go in and check it out. That will however never happen because it's clearly obvious there is something to hide. So far all the CCP has done is allow some journalists to go to specific areas, are followed and controlled and forced to abide by rules and procedures designed to ensure that the CCP sets the narrative. Influencers are taken on tours to the same places, shown the exact same things, etc, and all this happens 100 miles away from where the re-education camps are apparently located. So who do we believe? The guy who is waving a flag saying "guys look at whats going on" or the guy who is saying "you can't come and see here, that guy is lying, hes a liar! He has no credentials, he's western propaganda, hes fake news. There's no need to come here and see anything cos he's lying"

acgt 4y ago

Hard to watch. Reminder me of the torturing at Guantánamo Bay detention camp.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
coffeeblack 4y ago
How so? It seems to be to completely different levels.
- dillondoyle 4y ago
  Completely different scale, they are a government perpetrating genocide on their own citizens, could go on and on how they aren't the same. But the top photo of prisoner with hood and handcuffs and brutish looking military/security look very similar to some of the gross photos we saw of abuse at gitmo. Might be me putting too much emotion onto it but the guard with the bat looks like a smirk, like how the criminals at gitmo enjoyed abusing and taking those photos.
  - DFHippie 4y ago
    I think you're confusing Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib. It's the latter where sadistic guards took photos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone... Ugh. The pictures in that article are horrendous. The "patriots" will say (and in fact do say -- see the linked article about Lyndie England) that the real crime is not the acts committed but making them public. The same is true of course in China with Tiananmen Square or in Russia with the current military operation. It's funny how self-declared patriots seem to specialize in making the rest of the world hate and revile their country.
    - dillondoyle 4y ago
      I am you're right ;( Sad that you can confuse those. the photos from gitmo aren't nearly as bad, probably because there aren't many. Most I've seen are just those through the fence photos, again looks too similar to China's concentration camps.

__alexs 4y ago

Every great nation is built on unspeakably evil things like this. It seems almost like it's part of the cost of entry to being a super power. This isn't an apology for China. It's about time they moved to the 'maturity' stage of an empires life.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

4ggr0 4y ago

I hope that this is a genuine leak showing what's going on there. Just don't like the organisation behind this leak, at all, and don't really trust them. But as long as this leak is objective I can ignore this aspect. Really sickening to see what's going on in Xinjiang. EDIT: I said it's sickening to see what's going on and i strongly oppose what China is doing in Xinjang, am I really getting downvotes just because I don't like the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation"?

Maakuth 4y ago
I suppose it would be helpful if you provided some grounds on why you do not trust this foundation. There are other messages in this discussion showing distrust in the foundation and Dr. Zenz, but none provide background for that.
- throwaway4good 4y ago
  They are untrustworthy because they are driven by strong anti-communist ideology.
  - ginko 4y ago
    Surely being opposed to authoritarian single-party rule isn't enough to be considered untrustworthy.
  - Jon_Lowtek 4y ago
    It's a false believe that only those who declare neutrality can tell the truth and everything said by anyone with an agenda must be a lie made to further their goals. On the contrary those who strive for/against something have the energy required to uncover truth, to tell it again and again even when facing opposition. Yes we want neutral journalism, but that means to look at all sides and verify the facts, it does not mean to completely disregard something because a source is not neutral. It does not mean to disregard facts because they align with some ideology. We also want neutral judges, but when the accused says they did not do the crime, and accuser says they did, and the evidence says they did, the neutral judge should not disregard the evidence because it aligns with one side. That is not what neutrality means.

throwaway4good 4y ago

Both Zenz and “Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation” are colored by heavy ideology and this campaign is obviously timed with the UN human rights chiefs current visit in Xinjiang. The latter has some promise of shining light on the actual situation and provide some marginal improvements on the ground, whereas the former … well … won’t rest until China is split into a million pieces post soviet style.

shellfishgene 4y ago

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe any reactions just don't make mainstream news.

throwaway4good 4y ago
The short answer is that the Uyghur cause has been mostly promoted by American neo-conservative pro-Israel interests. (This maybe changing though.)
duairc 4y ago
> I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. You're not imagining this — Muslim countries support China. See this map of a UN vote to condemn China's treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang[1]. You'll notice that every Muslim country that didn't abstain defended China. In fact the only countries that condemned China are countries that are militarily allied with the United States. If you look at any of the "NGOs" that push the narrative that China is oppressing Muslims in Xinjiang, every single one of them is funded either by the National Endowment for Democracy[2][3][4] (an arm of the US State Department notorious for pushing regime change in countries the US doesn't like) or the Australian Strategic Policy Initiative, which in turn is sponsored by several US arms manufacturers[5], such as Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc. — all of whom would profit massively from a war with China, for which this narrative is manufacturing consent. Even the site that spawned this discussion seems to be associated with Adrian Zenz. A lot of the claims in Xinjiang can be traced back to his "work". He's a fundamentalist Christian bigot, is a fellow at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation" and claims to have been sent on a mission by God himself to destroy the Communist Party of China. His "work" has been thoroughly debunked many times over.[6] Frankly, the narrative is bullshit. The Muslim world that has suffered massively at the hands of US imperialism can see right through it and votes accordingly. China has never invaded or bombed any Muslim country. The US has no credibility in the Muslim world. [1]: https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map/index.html?initialWidth=703&childId=av-2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statements-map-EN6ID&parentTitle=More%20countries%20join%20condemnation%20of%20China%20over%20Xinjiang%20abuses&parentUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.axios.com%2F2020%2F10%2F08%2Fun-statement-china-uighurs-xinjiang https://graphics.axios.com/2020-10-06-china-uyghur-statement... [2]: https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-china-2021/ https://www.ned.org/region/asia/xinjiang-east-turkestan-chin... [3]: https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congress/ https://www.ned.org/2019-democracy-award/world-uyghur-congre... [4]: https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on-work-of-ned-grantees/ https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on... [5]: https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors https://www.aspi.org.au/sponsors [6]: https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad0babb9fb.html https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202104/30/WS608c1286a31024ad...

throwawaywig 4y ago

What China doing is wrong. But there is no doubt it is not anti-Islam. It is a xenophobic act. China has another big community of Muslims known as the Hui Muslims. They practice Sufism, a much more non-radical version of Islam. They practice Chinese culture, they build their mosques in Chinese architectural styles. They do not face any kind of "re-education" camps. Read more: [1]: https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim-minorities/ https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/a-tale-of-two-chinese-muslim... [2]: https://www.dw.com/en/the-hui-chinas-preferred-muslims/a-36699666 https://www.dw.com/en/the-hui-chinas-preferred-muslims/a-366... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people [4]: https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/ https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-is...

dragonelite 4y ago

uuhm what a timing just when UN sends a inspector to xinjiang this website shows up xD..

ChemSpider 4y ago
Human rights organizations and investigative press should and must plan for maximum exposure. Very clever timing and I congratulate whoever planned that. Had that been released e. g. 3 days after the Russian attack on Ukraine started, hardly anybody would have noticed.
dgellow 4y ago
That's how you create awareness of the problem.

tragomaskhalos 4y ago

The calls for affirmative action against China had a very low probability of bearing fruit beforehand, but since the Russian invasion of Ukraine I would put them at 0% - no sane politician wants to do anything that will push the Chinese further into common ground with Russia.

aasasd 4y ago
Just FYI, China doesn't care about the ‘common ground’ with Russia, and their cooperation mostly comes to China wanting Chinese companies to build infrastructure projects in Russia and receive fat checks for that. China keeps Russia away from its trade to the extent that they built train routes to Europe almost next to Russia through several neighboring countries. China's response to the invasion of Ukraine was: “Such conflicts should be solved with diplomacy”. I'm no expert, but as far as I can tell, the decision to do anything about China comes from the population of their main trade partner the US—specifically depending on whether those people ever decide that they can do fine without cheap tech and tsatskes from China.
cies 4y ago
A little like "The calls for affirmative action against US [for Guatanamo] had a very low probability of bearing fruit" It's like the large states can just do horrible things to people without every being punished!

TomGullen 4y ago

The photo of the woman on the BBC article is very powerful https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-c...

langsoul-com 4y ago

Someone is gonna get jailed for this leak.

layer8 4y ago
The files where obtained by hacking into their systems, presumably from outside China.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  That's too bad. It means we can't use Twitter to publicize it: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materials https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hacked-materi...

dirtyid 4y ago

[flagged]

femto 4y ago
A casual Google search will turn up evidence. Just one example of many: Uyghur workers, complete with police guards, are being supplied to factories throughout China. "Another new advertisement claimed to be able to supply 1,000 Uyghur workers aged 16 to 18 years. It reads: ‘The advantages of Xinjiang workers are: semi-military style management, can withstand hardship, no loss of personnel … Minimum order 100 workers!’. The advertisement also said that factory managers can apply for current Xinjiang police to be stationed at their factory 24 hours a day, and that the workers could be delivered (along with an Uyghur cook) within 15 days of the signing of a one-year contract (Figure 9)." https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale Another piece of evidence: comprehensive mapping of a network of 380 detention facilities: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/explainers/exploring-xinjiangs-detention-facilities/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/explainers/exploring-xinjiangs-dete... This page, "The Xinjiang Data Project", hosts a series of ongoing reports and data from Xinjiang: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/
- dirtyid 4y ago
  Yeah a casual google search lead straight to US/AU funded ASPI propaganda and other western MSM that tries to portray CCP dickwaving publically about poverty alleviation via Rural Labour Transfer Programs that has employed tens millions in every province in PRC as forced labour. ASPI report was follow up by Zenz from Jamestown that this is coerce labour, laundered by MSM as slave labour, used by US gov to coordinate XJ sanctions. That's how the playook works. Pieces bury context that pay is above regional income, companies are subsidized or pressured by gov to take on these workers that no one wants, which uplifts them substantially above 600M rural Chinese in informal economy stuck on 1000rmb / month that already havel language skills to and better suited to be productive workers. PRC has no shortage of excess Han labourers. All the current "mapping projects" consistently conflate schools and other facilities with detention camps to boost the numbers because security features found in schools all over PRC somehow = concentration camp in XJ. There's a reason for resorting to commercial satellite imaging with shit spatial resolution to weave narrative, because they can't get any compelling info on ground, but even lack of access doesn't explain the sheer inability to find any compelling photo/video evidence to support their genocide/slave labour narrative in ~10 years, nowhere in PRC is that opaque. The other component of data project tracks cultural erasure, whic is fair, rapidly developing Chinese regions with high YoY GDP growth that aggressives purges everything old does that with helping hand of state coordinated sinicization efforts. But TBF cultural assimilation has alwasy been permissible toolkit of state.

1vonzhang 4y ago

1. The populated of "genocided" Uyghur ethnic group has increased from 10.17 million to 12.71 million from 2010 to 2018. This sort of contradicts with the concept of genocide. The increase rate of ~25% is higher than Xinjiang ~14% and much higher than the main ethnic group Han ~2%. 2. I personally tried really hard to track down a source that DOESN'T ULTIMATELY LEAD TO ADRIAN ZENZ but has failed to do so. As GameOfFrowns commented earlier, he is at a position with many reasons to fabricate/exaggerate negative facts against China. If hundreds of articles from many different organizations/countries are based on one single person, it's hard for me not to regard this Adrian Zenz as a pretense. Even interviews with so-called family relatives are connected to this magical Zenz. Many BBC reports/articles claims a resource of "some investigation" or "some research" that either leads to nowhere or to Adrian Zenz. If one claims that it's barely possible to know what's really happening in an authoritarian country, these reports are at least as untrustworthy as China's claims. It's even more amazing that Adrian Zenz has this power to do the investigation that all other organizations/governments cannot do. 3. My personal option: China started this so-called educational camp because of the peak of terrorism in Xinjiang in 2009. And it's very possible that the anti-terrorism action went beyond what it should have. Investigations, evidence etc. should be encouraged to correct any mistake that have happened and prevent them from happening in the future. That being said, if this motive also goes beyond what it should be and turns into a means against China, the accusation makes no difference from what's accused of.

tnjm 4y ago
If you read the UN definition of genocide [0], you'll see that a population increase doesn't contradict (the UN concept of) genocide at all. The key is intent. [0] https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
- legalcorrection 4y ago
  A convenient sleight of hand for international liberals. To the average person, genocide means extermination by mass murder. So people make that incredibly damning accusation, and then when it's pointed out that no such thing is happening, they retreat into a technical definition that no one outside of the NGO/activist world cares or knows about.

sva_ 4y ago

Looking through some of those detainee pictures, it is almost all men, and some older women. Gruesome implication. But I only looked through some.

qiskit 4y ago
> Looking through some of those detainee pictures, it is almost all men, and some older women Makes a mockery of the "genocide" claim. If there was an actual genocide, it would be men, women and children. Like you see during the holocaust.
layer8 4y ago
I’m reminded of reports of systematic rape like these: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071
sizzle 4y ago
Did you see the same thing I saw? Cause you can filter by age by hitting the hamburger menu icon and there were 2000+ females returned under 30 years old that I didn’t have the heart to verify scrolling through the mugshots, it really gutted me and made it painful to see this blatant miscarriage of Justice. Everyone please go and try out the age filter, it is frightening and highly effective in humanizing the plight of these people to say the absolute least. Something needs to be done for these oppressed humans.
- sva_ 4y ago
  I didn't look too deeply, as I said.
  - alanh 4y ago
    Maybe you should spend half a minutes checking to see if what you are suggestion is supported by available data before starting a conversation about it
    - 4y ago

aasasd 4y ago

As we saw after the invasion of Ukraine, the West can mount a swift, concerted and effective response, that deals a lot of damage to the offending country's economy. I'm sure that evidence of Xinjiang crimes will invoke the same kind of decisive action.

cnlevy 4y ago
Decisive action ? We are far too economically dependent on China for anything comparable to Russia. In fact the only products the West depends on Russia, gas and oil have not been sanctioned !
sgift 4y ago
And non-western countries were very adamant that Ukraine is an European problem and they don't want to take sides. Why exactly is it the responsibility of "the West" to do something first? Let other countries take the lead for once instead of sitting on the sidelines and crying that whatever the West does or doesn't is wrong.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
Ukrainians are white. Don't underestimate the impact of that.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  Ukraine is a part of Europe, Europe responded. The US has heavy ties/trade relationships with Europe and so they responded, too. I imagine if it was Taiwan that US/Europe would've sent aid to them all the same. When it comes to Israel/Palestine and other conflicts the situation there is a lot more complicated when it comes to international relations/obligations as well as the duration and the history of the conflict. That isn't to say, however, that any conflict isn't a tragedy and that hoomans shouldn't just stop it with the tribal, evolutionary-path inspired antics already.
watwut 4y ago
It happened only after it turned out Ukraine has own army able to do the bloody part by themselves. No western army is fighting there. It is also funny how you ignore role of Eastern European countries who engaged heavily in the matter. While I distinctively recall non-westerners arguments on HN about how "Russia treats Ukraine with kids gloves" or "America did bad things and therefore it is OK for Russia to invade Ukraine" (somehow punishing Ukrainians for American history). Or how "since countries around Ukraine did not locked Ukrainians inside, they are bad nah, I will not talk about how our own countries treats refugees nah". "It is unfair to provide material support to Ukraine, unless you are willing to also invade and occupy China over their crimes" is not particularly strong argument. Especially not if the fully expected corollary is "but if you do what we now demand we will blame you for international aggression".

gullevek 4y ago

Host already gone. So China did its work.

femto 4y ago
Can anyone from Cloudflare comment on why the site is down?
- throwaway290 4y ago
  HTTP 502 hints at upstream error which makes me think it's not been set up with sufficiently aggressive caching at CDN level, meaning if someone DoSes Cloudflare then Cloudflare DoSes Xinjiang Police Files. This would be the most charitable scenario.

dontbenebby 4y ago

Hi int_10h, Thanks for posting this interesting link! I'm surprised Cloudflare is blocking me from viewing this site via Tor Browser from one of my favorite cyber cafés. Instead I need to load a domain that's going to put me on all sorts of... radar... and enable Javascript? Feels bad man. Oh, look, now as I try to access it I'm getting a 520 error, let's throw a !wayback shebang into the search bar since I already made sure to set my search engine as... uh... not Bing. Ahhh, here we go. https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji... For context, I'm from the suburbs of Pittsburgh, and seriously considered joining the FBI when I left college, but ironically the reason I didn't was because they never sorted out how to handle to the duality of the counter intel mission with the more traditional stuff like... busting bank robbers. I'm going to get up every morning and make posts like this on the internet, with the same damn defcon bag next to me I have for over ten years. - Greg from Troop 262 PS: And Mike Nelson, if you're reading this, sorry I called you while you're driving, you could have let it go to voicemail rather than pick up then being angry you're talking on the phone while you're driving -- you know I'm always willing to reply :-)

throwaway290 4y ago

https://archive.is/dOl6x https://archive.is/dOl6x or https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji..., more images load

ineiti 4y ago

The wayback machine has you: https://web.archive.org/web/20220524092913/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524092913/https://www.xinji... Unfortunately the documents haven't been saved before the site went down :(

femto 4y ago
A more recent snapshot looks to have got it all: https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji... (Thanks to throwaway290)

Sporktacular 4y ago

Can anyone suggest a mirror? It's up and down.

ma_advertising 4y ago

i wonder how religion is still a thing amoung the presumably educated people of HN

einpoklum 4y ago

Adrian Zenz is a fundamentalist Christian who has declared he is on some kind of quest from god to bring down Communist China. He's made multiple baseless accusations in the past such as there supposedly being a genocide of the Uyghurs. See: https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/ https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-...

akhmatova 4y ago
He's made multiple baseless accusations in the past such as there supposedly being a genocide of the Uyghurs. It's perfectly possible for an assertion to be both: (1) promoted by crank, and (2) entirely substantiated on its own merits, independent of whatever crank might say about it. One such example would be the ongoing fact of the genocide currently in reality (not "supposedly") underway against the Uyghur population in China.
- einpoklum 4y ago
  > It's perfectly possible etc. that's true. However, when essentially all mainstream and government claims are based on said crank's claims, and in line with government interests, that is very suspicious. > One such example would be the ongoing fact To the best of our knowledge, that is a false statement. There is no genocide underway. You only have (1.), not (2.).
  - akhmatova 4y ago
    When essentially all mainstream and government claims are based on said crank's claims, Which they manifestly are not. The evidence is overwhelming, and comes from numerous independent sources. There is no genocide underway. If you want to live in that universe, that's fine for you.