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Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidiary unionize

134 points by dangle1 4y ago

falcolas 4y ago
Good on them. From my experience, QA, especially game QA is looked down upon by leadership and developers - peers - alike. Collective bargaining can only help them.
- TameAntelope 4y ago
  I really try to be understanding, but my time in QA, working with QA as a dev, and then organizing testers on a team has not left me with many favorable memories.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    In what sense? With the company treatment of QA? QA team behavior?
- bsnal 4y ago
  Well, QA is what it is.
  - JaimeThompson 4y ago
    That doesn't mean they have to be treated like lesser beings.
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      No one in the org should be tested as lesser beings as a matter of civility.
    - yesbut 4y ago
      i'm just happy to see unionization spreading. there have been a lot of victories in the news lately. more unions please.
- seneca 4y ago
  > From my experience, QA, especially game QA is looked down upon by leadership and developers - peers - alike. If you have a dedicated QA team that is staffed by people who don't write software, those people are at best technicians. They are not peers of the engineers, they're a different job function with a much much lower barrier to entry. They're closer to the customer support team than they are to engineering. That's not to say that they are somehow undeserving of basic respect. They are (as are support personnel), but given the choice between QA and engineering, almost anyone would choose engineering. The reason QAs aren't on engineering teams is that they can't pass the interviews. The inverse is not true. None of that is to bash QA. But pretending they're peers of engineering and lamenting that they aren't treated as equals is just based on a fantasy.
  - mrpopo 4y ago
    > But pretending they're peers of engineering and lamenting that they aren't treated as equals is just based on a fantasy. You have just built an elaborate strawman. No one argued for equal rights/equal salary/equal treatment of QA people with their dev peers. They are just looking for better work conditions and better job security.
    - cr__ 4y ago
      I’m definitely arguing for equal rights and treatment for them (??????)
      - mrpopo 4y ago
        Erm, yeah, not sure what my intent was, but that was not the right wording. We should definitely fight for equal rights and treatment of workers.
  - wincy 4y ago
    In my experience a QA is to an engineer what a nurse is to a doctor. They take measurements and can have a good eye for what might be going on, but they don’t know the code. A QA automation engineer is more like a nurse practitioner. It doesn’t mean they aren’t smart but if they could write code they would, unless you’re working somewhere that compensates QAs and engineers the same (which I’ve never seen). Had a QA coworker try to learn to code and he just couldn’t quite get it.
bombcar 4y ago
> The workers at Raven Software, which is a Wisconsin subsidiary of Activision, voted to form the union Game Workers Alliance with the Communications Workers of America. Nineteen workers voted in favor of the union, with three voting against, the National Labor Relations Board tallied Monday. Two additional challenged ballots were uncounted, but do not change the outcome. A small group but maybe if it doesn’t cause the death of the world it will continue. The small team makes a game called “Call of Duty” so it’s definitely up from an indie studio.
- outside1234 4y ago
  Will be interesting to see if this expands up into Activision
- nhinck2 4y ago
  Just QA for some parts of Call of Duty.
outside1234 4y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20220523223728/https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-05-23/quality-assurance-union-at-activision-blizzard-subsidiary https://web.archive.org/web/20220523223728/https://www.latim...
charcircuit 4y ago
I'm sure you can find 19 people who want to be paid for playing video games. There are many places where QA isn't paid. It's an honor to help out the development of games and see things early.
- turtledove 4y ago
  You aren't paid to play videogames. You are paid to test videogames. It's asinine to think they are just playing the games - QA has complex skills necessary to succeed, from technical writing to careful test planning to cross organizational planning. QA is some of the least rewarding and most difficult work in a games studio. It's like asking why camera operators in film sets "get paid to watch movies". We've decided we like games, so we better pay people for the labor in making them. Fuck off with this "it's an honor" bullshit. It's work. It deserves good working conditions.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    >It's asinine to think they are just playing the game There are bad parts of every job. The fun part of SWE is coding, but that doesn't mean I don't have to write design docs, coordinat between different teams, etc. >It deserves good working conditions. I agree, but that doesn't mean you should make a union to do that.
    - kanbara 4y ago
      one should not have to rely on the hugely imbalanced power structure between employer and employee to get better working conditions. these people have stopped licking the boots of capitalism and started to demand change. there’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s no inherent moral value that people should adhere to in their work relationship that precludes them from forming a union.
    - sjtindell 4y ago
      I sit upon a silk cushion, my servants fanning me as I pluck a grape from the bowl. “The plebs don’t understand how hard I work too”, I complain to no one in particular. “Don’t they realize a union will only hurt them? If they’d just brought me their concerns, I’m sure I would have changed those policies.” My guards chuckle as they spear a nearby peasant and toss him from the ramparts.
turtledove 4y ago
Good for them! More of this in the industry is needed, especially in game dev where workers are treated especially poorly. Activision is likely to drag their heels on negotiating for years, unfortunately.
seventytwo 4y ago
Congrats to them!
phendrenad2 4y ago
Unions seem to result in people staying at the same job for longer, right? It'll be interesting to see what happens when the same QA team works together for a long time, instead of the company laying everyone off as soon as the wind blows the wrong direction.
Manuel_D 4y ago
"Have unionized" as in, have formed a group to represent themselves collectively? Or, as in all QA developers at Blizzard now have to be a dues-paying member of this new QA union? What strikes out at me is that only 19 of the 350 people at the company are unionizing. It's as though someone like specifically release engineers are going on strike, and 80+% of other developers are not. What keeps the company from just reassigning building releases to the other 80% of the developers?

134 points by dangle1 4y ago

Good on them. From my experience, QA, especially game QA is looked down upon by leadership and developers - peers - alike. Collective bargaining can only help them.

TameAntelope 4y ago
I really try to be understanding, but my time in QA, working with QA as a dev, and then organizing testers on a team has not left me with many favorable memories.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  In what sense? With the company treatment of QA? QA team behavior?
bsnal 4y ago
Well, QA is what it is.
- JaimeThompson 4y ago
  That doesn't mean they have to be treated like lesser beings.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    No one in the org should be tested as lesser beings as a matter of civility.
  - yesbut 4y ago
    i'm just happy to see unionization spreading. there have been a lot of victories in the news lately. more unions please.
seneca 4y ago
> From my experience, QA, especially game QA is looked down upon by leadership and developers - peers - alike. If you have a dedicated QA team that is staffed by people who don't write software, those people are at best technicians. They are not peers of the engineers, they're a different job function with a much much lower barrier to entry. They're closer to the customer support team than they are to engineering. That's not to say that they are somehow undeserving of basic respect. They are (as are support personnel), but given the choice between QA and engineering, almost anyone would choose engineering. The reason QAs aren't on engineering teams is that they can't pass the interviews. The inverse is not true. None of that is to bash QA. But pretending they're peers of engineering and lamenting that they aren't treated as equals is just based on a fantasy.
- mrpopo 4y ago
  > But pretending they're peers of engineering and lamenting that they aren't treated as equals is just based on a fantasy. You have just built an elaborate strawman. No one argued for equal rights/equal salary/equal treatment of QA people with their dev peers. They are just looking for better work conditions and better job security.
  - cr__ 4y ago
    I’m definitely arguing for equal rights and treatment for them (??????)
    - mrpopo 4y ago
      Erm, yeah, not sure what my intent was, but that was not the right wording. We should definitely fight for equal rights and treatment of workers.
- wincy 4y ago
  In my experience a QA is to an engineer what a nurse is to a doctor. They take measurements and can have a good eye for what might be going on, but they don’t know the code. A QA automation engineer is more like a nurse practitioner. It doesn’t mean they aren’t smart but if they could write code they would, unless you’re working somewhere that compensates QAs and engineers the same (which I’ve never seen). Had a QA coworker try to learn to code and he just couldn’t quite get it.

bombcar 4y ago

> The workers at Raven Software, which is a Wisconsin subsidiary of Activision, voted to form the union Game Workers Alliance with the Communications Workers of America. Nineteen workers voted in favor of the union, with three voting against, the National Labor Relations Board tallied Monday. Two additional challenged ballots were uncounted, but do not change the outcome. A small group but maybe if it doesn’t cause the death of the world it will continue. The small team makes a game called “Call of Duty” so it’s definitely up from an indie studio.

outside1234 4y ago
Will be interesting to see if this expands up into Activision
nhinck2 4y ago
Just QA for some parts of Call of Duty.

outside1234 4y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20220523223728/https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-05-23/quality-assurance-union-at-activision-blizzard-subsidiary https://web.archive.org/web/20220523223728/https://www.latim...

charcircuit 4y ago

I'm sure you can find 19 people who want to be paid for playing video games. There are many places where QA isn't paid. It's an honor to help out the development of games and see things early.

turtledove 4y ago
You aren't paid to play videogames. You are paid to test videogames. It's asinine to think they are just playing the games - QA has complex skills necessary to succeed, from technical writing to careful test planning to cross organizational planning. QA is some of the least rewarding and most difficult work in a games studio. It's like asking why camera operators in film sets "get paid to watch movies". We've decided we like games, so we better pay people for the labor in making them. Fuck off with this "it's an honor" bullshit. It's work. It deserves good working conditions.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  >It's asinine to think they are just playing the game There are bad parts of every job. The fun part of SWE is coding, but that doesn't mean I don't have to write design docs, coordinat between different teams, etc. >It deserves good working conditions. I agree, but that doesn't mean you should make a union to do that.
  - kanbara 4y ago
    one should not have to rely on the hugely imbalanced power structure between employer and employee to get better working conditions. these people have stopped licking the boots of capitalism and started to demand change. there’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s no inherent moral value that people should adhere to in their work relationship that precludes them from forming a union.
  - sjtindell 4y ago
    I sit upon a silk cushion, my servants fanning me as I pluck a grape from the bowl. “The plebs don’t understand how hard I work too”, I complain to no one in particular. “Don’t they realize a union will only hurt them? If they’d just brought me their concerns, I’m sure I would have changed those policies.” My guards chuckle as they spear a nearby peasant and toss him from the ramparts.

turtledove 4y ago

Good for them! More of this in the industry is needed, especially in game dev where workers are treated especially poorly. Activision is likely to drag their heels on negotiating for years, unfortunately.

seventytwo 4y ago

Congrats to them!

phendrenad2 4y ago

Unions seem to result in people staying at the same job for longer, right? It'll be interesting to see what happens when the same QA team works together for a long time, instead of the company laying everyone off as soon as the wind blows the wrong direction.

Manuel_D 4y ago

"Have unionized" as in, have formed a group to represent themselves collectively? Or, as in all QA developers at Blizzard now have to be a dues-paying member of this new QA union? What strikes out at me is that only 19 of the 350 people at the company are unionizing. It's as though someone like specifically release engineers are going on strike, and 80+% of other developers are not. What keeps the company from just reassigning building releases to the other 80% of the developers?