5 ms·

> At the end of a day, if you ask for a nurse, should the model output a male or female by default? Randomly pick one. > Trying to generate a model that's "fr

> At the end of a day, if you ask for a nurse, should the model output a male or female by default? Randomly pick one. > Trying to generate a model that's "free of correlative relationships" is impossible because the model would never have the infinitely pedantic input text to describe the exact output image. Sure, and you can never make a medical procedure 100% safe. Doesn't mean that you don't try to make them safer. You can trim the obvious low hanging fruit though.

calvinmorrison 4y ago
what if I asked the model to show me a sunday school photograph of baptists in the National Baptist Convention?
- rvnx 4y ago
  The pictures I got from a similar model when asking for a "sunday school photograph of baptists in the National Baptist Convention": https://ibb.co/sHGZwh7 https://ibb.co/sHGZwh7
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    and how do we _feel_ about that outcome?
    - andybak 4y ago
      It's gone now. What was it?
pxmpxm 4y ago
> Randomly pick one. How does the model back out the "certain people would like to pretend it's a fair coin toss that a randomly selected nurse is male or female" feature? It won't be in any representative training set, so you're back to fishing for stock photos on getty rather than generating things.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Yep, that's the hard problem Google is not comfortable releasing the API to this until they have it solved.
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    But why is it a problem? The AI is just a mirror showing us ourselves. That’s a good thing. How does it help anyone to make an AI that presents a fake world so that we can pretend that we live in a world that we actually don’t? Disassociation from reality is more dangerous than bias.
    - Daishiman 4y ago
      The AI is a mirror of the text and image corpora it was presented, as parsed and sanitized by the team in question.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      > The AI is just a mirror showing us ourselves. That's one hypothesis.
    - astrange 4y ago
      In the days when Sussman was a novice Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?", asked Minsky. "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe." "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play" Minsky shut his eyes, "Why do you close your eyes?", Sussman asked his teacher. "So that the room will be empty." At that moment, Sussman was enlightened. — The AI doesn’t know what’s common or not. You don’t know if it’s going to be correct unless you’ve tested it. Just assuming whatever it comes out with is right is going to work as well as asking a psychic for your future.
      - zarzavat 4y ago
        The model makes inferences about the world from training data. When it sees more female nurses than male nurses in its training set, if infers that most nurses are female. This is a correct inference. If they were to weight the training data so that there were an equal number of male and female nurses, then it may well produce male and female nurses with equal probability, but it would also learn an incorrect understanding of the world. That is quite distinct from weighting the data so that it has a greater correspondence to reality. For example, if Africa is not represented well then weighting training data from Africa more strongly is justifiable. The point is, it’s not a good thing for us to intentionally teach AIs a world that is idealized and false. As these AIs work their way into our lives it is essential that they reproduce the world in all of its grit and imperfections, lest we start to disassociate from reality. Chinese media (or insert your favorite unfree regime) also presents China as a utopia.
nmfisher 4y ago
What about preschool teacher? I say this because I’ve been visiting a number of childcare centres over the past few days and I still have yet to see a single male teacher.

calvinmorrison 4y ago

what if I asked the model to show me a sunday school photograph of baptists in the National Baptist Convention?

rvnx 4y ago
The pictures I got from a similar model when asking for a "sunday school photograph of baptists in the National Baptist Convention": https://ibb.co/sHGZwh7 https://ibb.co/sHGZwh7
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  and how do we _feel_ about that outcome?
  - andybak 4y ago
    It's gone now. What was it?

pxmpxm 4y ago

> Randomly pick one. How does the model back out the "certain people would like to pretend it's a fair coin toss that a randomly selected nurse is male or female" feature? It won't be in any representative training set, so you're back to fishing for stock photos on getty rather than generating things.

shadowgovt 4y ago
Yep, that's the hard problem Google is not comfortable releasing the API to this until they have it solved.
- zarzavat 4y ago
  But why is it a problem? The AI is just a mirror showing us ourselves. That’s a good thing. How does it help anyone to make an AI that presents a fake world so that we can pretend that we live in a world that we actually don’t? Disassociation from reality is more dangerous than bias.
  - Daishiman 4y ago
    The AI is a mirror of the text and image corpora it was presented, as parsed and sanitized by the team in question.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    > The AI is just a mirror showing us ourselves. That's one hypothesis.
  - astrange 4y ago
    In the days when Sussman was a novice Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?", asked Minsky. "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe." "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play" Minsky shut his eyes, "Why do you close your eyes?", Sussman asked his teacher. "So that the room will be empty." At that moment, Sussman was enlightened. — The AI doesn’t know what’s common or not. You don’t know if it’s going to be correct unless you’ve tested it. Just assuming whatever it comes out with is right is going to work as well as asking a psychic for your future.
    - zarzavat 4y ago
      The model makes inferences about the world from training data. When it sees more female nurses than male nurses in its training set, if infers that most nurses are female. This is a correct inference. If they were to weight the training data so that there were an equal number of male and female nurses, then it may well produce male and female nurses with equal probability, but it would also learn an incorrect understanding of the world. That is quite distinct from weighting the data so that it has a greater correspondence to reality. For example, if Africa is not represented well then weighting training data from Africa more strongly is justifiable. The point is, it’s not a good thing for us to intentionally teach AIs a world that is idealized and false. As these AIs work their way into our lives it is essential that they reproduce the world in all of its grit and imperfections, lest we start to disassociate from reality. Chinese media (or insert your favorite unfree regime) also presents China as a utopia.

nmfisher 4y ago

What about preschool teacher? I say this because I’ve been visiting a number of childcare centres over the past few days and I still have yet to see a single male teacher.