4 ms·

The timing is notable, coming on the heels of an emphatic conservative critique of compelled vaccination. For the first time in memory the right side of the ai

The timing is notable, coming on the heels of an emphatic conservative critique of compelled vaccination. For the first time in memory the right side of the aisle has been arguing for bodily autonomy and the left for the state's right to compel people to accept medical treatment over objection (or even an extended form of home-confinement). It's the first time in memory I have some hope the different sides of the debate might see common ground.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
Where in the U.S. (other than in the military, where different structures apply) has anyone been compelled to be vaccinated?
- unyttigfjelltol 4y ago
  Even in the military the compulsion was the prospect of dishonorable discharge. Where I live both government employees and private employees have been fired for not complying with vaccination mandates, and again the issue is political alignment not whether people are being jabbed without consent.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    No; the issue is the entirely false equivalence between vaccine mandates and abortion access when the underlying concern is bodily autonomy.
    - unyttigfjelltol 4y ago
      @novemberWhiskey, I'm here to tell you I connected with someone who harbors strong feelings about Roe specifically with respect to the vaccination issue. You may disagree, but the relevancy is not 'false'.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    As far as your future job prospects go, a dishonorable discharge might as well be a felony conviction.
- mikece 4y ago
  You are aware that lots of people lost their jobs for refusing all forms of the COVID vaccination, right?
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    And how many of those people were forced to lose their bodily autonomy by taking those vaccines against their will?
    - dotnet00 4y ago
      So, just to make sure I understand you correctly, you wouldn't consider it a violation of bodily autonomy if the state governments simply put in place legislation that effectively forced people out of a job if they wanted an abortion? Like, if they ruled tomorrow that abortion until birth is legal, but the mother and father must spend a week attending 8 hours of daily counseling before being allowed to abort and then must spend a month after to mentally recover (thus effectively making them unable to work for that period), wouldn't you consider that to be effectively the same as banning abortion? I would consider it to be equivalent, as making something unreasonably difficult to do is effectively the same as a ban, particularly for more economically vulnerable people, after all, even if abortion were banned in the entire US, for the rich it just means taking time off to go to another country and having a 'miscarriage' before coming back, while for the poor it means resorting to more dangerous methods.
- Barrin92 4y ago
  Haven't school kids in the US been required to be vaccinated against numerous diseases for ages?
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    You always have the choice to homeschool your kids if you don't want to send them to school.
    - Barrin92 4y ago
      So you're confined to your home if you don't comply which seems equivalent to covid policies, which was the point of the discussion, no? Nobody's been physically forced to get vaccinated, just excluded from public life. That seems to have plenty of precedent.
      - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
        Home confinement? Oh please. You could go wherever you wanted outside, you could visit homes of friends or family, go shopping ... even in NYC (which had amongst the strictest regulation) you only needed to show proof of vaccination for indoor dining, fitness and entertainment venues.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      That would violate their human rights. Article 26 UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights: > Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. I know USA hasn't ratified these so USA doesn't think this is a right, but most of the world do. It is fine to force people to get vaccinated, but it isn't fine to deny human rights to those who don't get vaccinated. The reason is obviously that they want to force everyone to get vaccinated, but they can't so instead they just deny human rights to those who don't get vaccinated. Why do it in such a roundabout way, when the constitution obviously didn't intend for the federation to make such laws?

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

Where in the U.S. (other than in the military, where different structures apply) has anyone been compelled to be vaccinated?

unyttigfjelltol 4y ago
Even in the military the compulsion was the prospect of dishonorable discharge. Where I live both government employees and private employees have been fired for not complying with vaccination mandates, and again the issue is political alignment not whether people are being jabbed without consent.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  No; the issue is the entirely false equivalence between vaccine mandates and abortion access when the underlying concern is bodily autonomy.
  - unyttigfjelltol 4y ago
    @novemberWhiskey, I'm here to tell you I connected with someone who harbors strong feelings about Roe specifically with respect to the vaccination issue. You may disagree, but the relevancy is not 'false'.
- robonerd 4y ago
  As far as your future job prospects go, a dishonorable discharge might as well be a felony conviction.
mikece 4y ago
You are aware that lots of people lost their jobs for refusing all forms of the COVID vaccination, right?
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  And how many of those people were forced to lose their bodily autonomy by taking those vaccines against their will?
  - dotnet00 4y ago
    So, just to make sure I understand you correctly, you wouldn't consider it a violation of bodily autonomy if the state governments simply put in place legislation that effectively forced people out of a job if they wanted an abortion? Like, if they ruled tomorrow that abortion until birth is legal, but the mother and father must spend a week attending 8 hours of daily counseling before being allowed to abort and then must spend a month after to mentally recover (thus effectively making them unable to work for that period), wouldn't you consider that to be effectively the same as banning abortion? I would consider it to be equivalent, as making something unreasonably difficult to do is effectively the same as a ban, particularly for more economically vulnerable people, after all, even if abortion were banned in the entire US, for the rich it just means taking time off to go to another country and having a 'miscarriage' before coming back, while for the poor it means resorting to more dangerous methods.
Barrin92 4y ago
Haven't school kids in the US been required to be vaccinated against numerous diseases for ages?
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  You always have the choice to homeschool your kids if you don't want to send them to school.
  - Barrin92 4y ago
    So you're confined to your home if you don't comply which seems equivalent to covid policies, which was the point of the discussion, no? Nobody's been physically forced to get vaccinated, just excluded from public life. That seems to have plenty of precedent.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      Home confinement? Oh please. You could go wherever you wanted outside, you could visit homes of friends or family, go shopping ... even in NYC (which had amongst the strictest regulation) you only needed to show proof of vaccination for indoor dining, fitness and entertainment venues.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    That would violate their human rights. Article 26 UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights: > Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. I know USA hasn't ratified these so USA doesn't think this is a right, but most of the world do. It is fine to force people to get vaccinated, but it isn't fine to deny human rights to those who don't get vaccinated. The reason is obviously that they want to force everyone to get vaccinated, but they can't so instead they just deny human rights to those who don't get vaccinated. Why do it in such a roundabout way, when the constitution obviously didn't intend for the federation to make such laws?