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You can still quit. And, at least I would recommend you doing it. I have yet to do the jump to industry, but from what I'm hearing so far: There is little to no

You can still quit. And, at least I would recommend you doing it. I have yet to do the jump to industry, but from what I'm hearing so far: There is little to no value assigned to the _paper_. And, at least in my view, this is exactly as it should be. There are two and only two situations [0]: 1) The company requires your specific expertise and won't care about the title as you are the one with the knowledge 2) The company does not require your specific expertise at which point they care about the PhD as a marker of "can do stuff autonomously", which has nothing to do with the title. On the other hand: (that is an assumption that may be wrong) You are miserable! That is time and joy that you won't get back. Academia will not be thankful for your sacrifice! And besides: I highly doubt that you would have to work for less pay if you quit. [0] well there is a third one: Someone wants someone with a title for title slides and reports. But I _really_ don't want to work for these people, so I'm discarding it.

treesknees 4y ago
There are some programs where you can earn a Doctorate without a Master's degree. Sometimes the program will combine both into one curriculum. In these cases, it's not possible to just quit and still have a Master's. You will have a Bachelor's and a bunch of debt. Perhaps they could work with an academic advisor to apply those credits taken to a Master's, maybe fill in the gaps and be done with it.
- hnaccount_rng 4y ago
  Okay yeah I should mention that I did my PhD in Germany, where a Master's is a prerequisite and there is nearly no course work (the little that is required is solved ... let's call it ... creatively, but the real work is done in the Master's)
- nycticorax 4y ago
  "a bunch of debt"? PhD students in STEM fields, at least in the US, can usually get a PhD without taking on additional debt. Also, many programs that don't offer a master's degree program will still let you graduate with a master's if you're a few years into a PhD program and decide to bail.
yanderekko 4y ago
>You can still quit. This is bad advice. The sheepskin effect is real and a company that "cares about the PhD as a marker" is not being petty or superficial in using this as a screening mechanism. Unless you're truly looking to enter a field where having a PhD would be of no value on your resume, just finish your PhD if you're 6 years in and can do so without too much additional distraction.
ModernMech 4y ago
> from what I'm hearing so far: There is little to no value assigned to the _paper_ I was given this advice when I was wavering on whether to finish my Ph.D. In fact, a guy who had finished his Ph.D. told me don't bother, nothing changed from before or after he got it. Then I went to his wedding and he had the DJ refer to him as "Dr." the entire night in front of his entire family, and by God did they care. They were so proud of him for that title and that degree. After seeing that, I immediately went and applied to defend my dissertation. And here's the other thing -- even if you work in an industry like CS that has more egalitarian views on credentials like a Ph.D., the whole world is not like that. The actual piece of paper opens up several opportunities not available otherwise: - Some jobs require a Ph.D. All the experience in the world won't qualify you for that kind of role without the piece of paper. - You can get jobs as an "expert" easily, where the piece of paper reifies your expertise to your clients (think expert witness or consultant). It's difficult to explain "Yes, I'm at the top of my field except I don't have the same credentials as those other people who also claim they are at the top". The credentials are more convincing to a lot of people. - It's easier to emigrate to various places. Having a Ph.D. could help you qualify for a O1 visa in the US, and other countries have special carve outs in their immigration codes for Ph.D.s. You don't get any special treatment for being ABD, no matter how much you insist it wasn't worth your time. etc. So having completed the Ph.D., it was by far the right choice for me.
- bumby 4y ago
  >and by God did they care. I find it generally bad advice to chase after something when the main driver is social prestige. For one, by definition, you hinging your esteem to the (possibly fickle) opinion of somebody else and two, the people who are in fields for status rather than because of intrinsic joy of the work itself are often not the most productive or ethical. For example, the surgeons I know who are in the field mainly due to the status it confers seem to be quite miserable.
  - lumost 4y ago
    A phd is a one time expense, you can choose to discard it or use it as needed. Unlike a surgeon, who must spend their career actually doing surgery or face financial ruin. Anecdotally, I have seen phds create expectation vs reality mismatches for some. The degree can easily become an anchor which holds someone to problems that they no longer care about, or provides false belief in one’s credentials.

treesknees 4y ago

There are some programs where you can earn a Doctorate without a Master's degree. Sometimes the program will combine both into one curriculum. In these cases, it's not possible to just quit and still have a Master's. You will have a Bachelor's and a bunch of debt. Perhaps they could work with an academic advisor to apply those credits taken to a Master's, maybe fill in the gaps and be done with it.

hnaccount_rng 4y ago
Okay yeah I should mention that I did my PhD in Germany, where a Master's is a prerequisite and there is nearly no course work (the little that is required is solved ... let's call it ... creatively, but the real work is done in the Master's)
nycticorax 4y ago
"a bunch of debt"? PhD students in STEM fields, at least in the US, can usually get a PhD without taking on additional debt. Also, many programs that don't offer a master's degree program will still let you graduate with a master's if you're a few years into a PhD program and decide to bail.

yanderekko 4y ago

>You can still quit. This is bad advice. The sheepskin effect is real and a company that "cares about the PhD as a marker" is not being petty or superficial in using this as a screening mechanism. Unless you're truly looking to enter a field where having a PhD would be of no value on your resume, just finish your PhD if you're 6 years in and can do so without too much additional distraction.

ModernMech 4y ago

> from what I'm hearing so far: There is little to no value assigned to the _paper_ I was given this advice when I was wavering on whether to finish my Ph.D. In fact, a guy who had finished his Ph.D. told me don't bother, nothing changed from before or after he got it. Then I went to his wedding and he had the DJ refer to him as "Dr." the entire night in front of his entire family, and by God did they care. They were so proud of him for that title and that degree. After seeing that, I immediately went and applied to defend my dissertation. And here's the other thing -- even if you work in an industry like CS that has more egalitarian views on credentials like a Ph.D., the whole world is not like that. The actual piece of paper opens up several opportunities not available otherwise: - Some jobs require a Ph.D. All the experience in the world won't qualify you for that kind of role without the piece of paper. - You can get jobs as an "expert" easily, where the piece of paper reifies your expertise to your clients (think expert witness or consultant). It's difficult to explain "Yes, I'm at the top of my field except I don't have the same credentials as those other people who also claim they are at the top". The credentials are more convincing to a lot of people. - It's easier to emigrate to various places. Having a Ph.D. could help you qualify for a O1 visa in the US, and other countries have special carve outs in their immigration codes for Ph.D.s. You don't get any special treatment for being ABD, no matter how much you insist it wasn't worth your time. etc. So having completed the Ph.D., it was by far the right choice for me.

bumby 4y ago
>and by God did they care. I find it generally bad advice to chase after something when the main driver is social prestige. For one, by definition, you hinging your esteem to the (possibly fickle) opinion of somebody else and two, the people who are in fields for status rather than because of intrinsic joy of the work itself are often not the most productive or ethical. For example, the surgeons I know who are in the field mainly due to the status it confers seem to be quite miserable.
- lumost 4y ago
  A phd is a one time expense, you can choose to discard it or use it as needed. Unlike a surgeon, who must spend their career actually doing surgery or face financial ruin. Anecdotally, I have seen phds create expectation vs reality mismatches for some. The degree can easily become an anchor which holds someone to problems that they no longer care about, or provides false belief in one’s credentials.