4 ms·

The benefit of the lockdowns was very, very small for the kids.

mavhc 4y ago
Not having dead parents is a great benefit for kids. Not having dead parents who you infected and caused to die is an even better benefit
- nradov 4y ago
  Stop spreading misinformation. The data clearly shows that the death rate for parents is extremely low. It was only ever people in the 65+ age group that were at significant risk. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Parents were mostly fine from it in the end. Look by all means lockdowns made a lot of sense early on in the face of an unknown disease. I hope we can all agree they no longer make sense for Covid.
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    In the US 200,000+ children lost caregivers to covid. So technically most were fine, but that's also not a number to scoff at. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/200000-us-children-lost-parent-caregiver-covid-efforts-help-haphazard-rcna16140 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/200000-us-children-lost...
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      That seems… impossible? There’s been about 70k deaths in the range of 20-49. What’s a child? What’s a caregiver? I’d also point out it’s not “technically most” it’s 99.7%
      - micromacrofoot 4y ago
        It's from this study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01253-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... Children are people under 18. > We considered parents and custodial grandparents as primary caregivers, and co-residing grandparents or older kin (aged 60–84 years) as secondary caregivers. Lot of kids are raised by their grandparents.
- HideousKojima 4y ago
  Unless their parents were obese retirees, the chances of that happening were a few orders of magnitude lower than the chances for plenty of other risks we deem acceptable and don't lock down society over.
carapace 4y ago
Here's the thing about this sort of reasoning that really stumps me: Those kids will, if all goes to plan, grow up and be oldies someday, yes? And if another terrible pandemic like this sweeps the world (which is not unlikely) they will be the ones in the hospitals dying in agony, slowly drowning in their own dissolving lung tissue. It is at that (thankfully theoretical) moment when the FULL benefits of having made this current sacrifice with devolve upon them. Only then will they be able to look at the rest us and say, "We are all in this together. Please don't sacrifice me to a slow and painful death, please make the sacrifice for me instead, and, y'know, stay home and wear masks." We care for the elderly because we love them, but if that's not enough for you, remember that the selfish reason to care for them is there in the background, waiting for you to get old and slip in the tub: we want to be cared for when we get old. Respect your elders.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Everything is a balance. Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Everything has costs and efficacy levels. One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism
  - carapace 4y ago
    > Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? I don't "support" anything the CCP does. I think that whole mode and form of government is destined to fail due to their fundamental denial of God. But that's a whole different kettle of fish, eh? The simple truth is that I have no idea how to manage a pandemic in a city like Shanghai. I'm glad it's not my problem. > With a population of 24.89 million as of 2021, Shanghai is the most populous urban area in China and the most populous city proper in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai > Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Do you live in Shanghai? > One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism It's very easy for me: my mother is in the most-at-risk category. When her time comes I want it to be peaceful and painless, hopefully in her sleep. I do not want her to lungs to dissolve and drown her. The "economic opportunity" can go screw. Don't sacrifice my mom for that person's extra money. There are over a half dozen empty apartments next to our house, and dozens of families living in RV's a few blocks away. I make six figures and can't afford a to buy a home. You want me to risk my mom for someone else's "economic opportunity"? And you think I'm naive?

Not having dead parents is a great benefit for kids. Not having dead parents who you infected and caused to die is an even better benefit

nradov 4y ago
Stop spreading misinformation. The data clearly shows that the death rate for parents is extremely low. It was only ever people in the 65+ age group that were at significant risk. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
oneoff786 4y ago
Parents were mostly fine from it in the end. Look by all means lockdowns made a lot of sense early on in the face of an unknown disease. I hope we can all agree they no longer make sense for Covid.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  In the US 200,000+ children lost caregivers to covid. So technically most were fine, but that's also not a number to scoff at. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/200000-us-children-lost-parent-caregiver-covid-efforts-help-haphazard-rcna16140 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/200000-us-children-lost...
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    That seems… impossible? There’s been about 70k deaths in the range of 20-49. What’s a child? What’s a caregiver? I’d also point out it’s not “technically most” it’s 99.7%
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      It's from this study: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01253-8/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... Children are people under 18. > We considered parents and custodial grandparents as primary caregivers, and co-residing grandparents or older kin (aged 60–84 years) as secondary caregivers. Lot of kids are raised by their grandparents.
HideousKojima 4y ago
Unless their parents were obese retirees, the chances of that happening were a few orders of magnitude lower than the chances for plenty of other risks we deem acceptable and don't lock down society over.

carapace 4y ago

Here's the thing about this sort of reasoning that really stumps me: Those kids will, if all goes to plan, grow up and be oldies someday, yes? And if another terrible pandemic like this sweeps the world (which is not unlikely) they will be the ones in the hospitals dying in agony, slowly drowning in their own dissolving lung tissue. It is at that (thankfully theoretical) moment when the FULL benefits of having made this current sacrifice with devolve upon them. Only then will they be able to look at the rest us and say, "We are all in this together. Please don't sacrifice me to a slow and painful death, please make the sacrifice for me instead, and, y'know, stay home and wear masks." We care for the elderly because we love them, but if that's not enough for you, remember that the selfish reason to care for them is there in the background, waiting for you to get old and slip in the tub: we want to be cared for when we get old. Respect your elders.

oneoff786 4y ago
Everything is a balance. Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Everything has costs and efficacy levels. One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism
- carapace 4y ago
  > Are you supportive of china’s ridiculous Shanghai lockdown? I don't "support" anything the CCP does. I think that whole mode and form of government is destined to fail due to their fundamental denial of God. But that's a whole different kettle of fish, eh? The simple truth is that I have no idea how to manage a pandemic in a city like Shanghai. I'm glad it's not my problem. > With a population of 24.89 million as of 2021, Shanghai is the most populous urban area in China and the most populous city proper in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai > Do I not respect my elders if I refuse that? Do you live in Shanghai? > One quality year of life of grandma vs. the economic opportunity of a new grad. It’s not easy at all. It is easy to claim that death outweighs all else and hide behind naive humanism It's very easy for me: my mother is in the most-at-risk category. When her time comes I want it to be peaceful and painless, hopefully in her sleep. I do not want her to lungs to dissolve and drown her. The "economic opportunity" can go screw. Don't sacrifice my mom for that person's extra money. There are over a half dozen empty apartments next to our house, and dozens of families living in RV's a few blocks away. I make six figures and can't afford a to buy a home. You want me to risk my mom for someone else's "economic opportunity"? And you think I'm naive?