5 ms·

Anti-vaxxer means “a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination” (emphasis mine). That makes the vast majority in my country S

Anti-vaxxer means “a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination” (emphasis mine). That makes the vast majority in my country Sweden fall into this category, as I have yet to meet anyone who wished for a lock down or forced vaccination or vax passes, like our neighbours had.

tresqotheq 4y ago
>a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination But why do they do that? Because they think something is unsafe with the vaccines, right? The other alternative is that they are not interested in reducing their or their kids chances of death from some disease. But that is not possible, and once you eliminate that only the former ones remain. So that means, they just want safer vaccines, no?
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  > the other alternative is that they are not interested in reducing their or their kids chances of death from some disease. But that is not possible That's a bold claim. There's plenty of people against resuscitation, blood transfusion, organ transplants and other medical practices that are safe and clearly save lives. Like in the case of vaccines, some people have other values guiding them, and one of these principle is not having something imposed on them. Regarding vaccines, safer than what, exactly? How "safe" is "safe enough"? Have you ever compared the safety profile of vaccines vs other commonly used medication?
  - strangethrawy 4y ago
    > That's a bold claim. But where are the groups for "anti-organ transplants", or "anti-blood transfusion" etc? One does not often come across references to them on online forms, I think. So clearly we are talking about a substantially large population here. >How "safe" is "safe enough" Quite subjective, so I am not going to answer that. But that is also besides the point. Point is people are called anti-vaxxer, if they doubt the safety of vaccines. Case in point is given below. https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4001.abstract https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4001.abstract
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I haven’t seen laws proposed to mandate transfusions or organ transplants against the wishes of the recipient. If such laws were proposed, you’d rightly hear people objecting to them.
    - gattilorenz 4y ago
      > But where are the groups for "anti-organ transplants", or "anti-blood transfusion" etc? One does not often come across references to them on online forms, I think Conveniently leaving out DNR, I see :) > Point is people are called anti-vaxxer, if they doubt the safety of vaccines People are called anti-vaxxers for a number of reasons, including - but not limited to - the one you mention.
      - tresqotheq 4y ago
        >Conveniently leaving out DNR, I see :) Was not intentional. > People are called anti-vaxxers for a number of reasons, including - but not limited to - the one you mention. Then I think that group asking for safer vaccines should be called "safe-vaxxers", right?
        gattilorenz 4y ago
        > Then I think that group asking for safer vaccines should be called "safe-vaxxers", right? Sure, if you get the general speakers of English to agree on it, it might reflect a nuance that the current term misses. I have the feeling though that most people don't care, since the term "anti-vaxxers" is not used by sociologists or by people that do not want to be vaccinated for reason X, and is instead used by the average person in an argument.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  I oppose the mandating of vaccines while believing they are generally safe and effective, stayed up late to sign up and drove a substantial distance to ensure I got a COVID vaccine on literally the first day I was eligible and our family was all vax’d within the first week of eligibility. I’m pro-vaccine. I believe in individual autonomy over their body and, while I’d try to convince anyone to choose to get the vaccine, if they won’t choose that, I don’t feel like society should have the right to impose it. I’m anti-mandate (on philosophical grounds not safety grounds). I’m pro-vaccine and anti-mandate. If you want to call that position “anti-vax”, so be it; I don’t believe I have the right to mandate the language you choose either.
  - pvg 4y ago
    I’m anti-mandate (on philosophical grounds not safety grounds). Those are anti-safety philosophical grounds, though. Without mandates we'd have significantly higher child morality. We'd also be talking about smallpox rather than monkeypox outbreaks.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      Indeed liberty and safety, both desirable qualities in isolation, are in tension here. Different people can have different philosophies about the optimal tradeoff. Some would choose safety over liberty; others liberty over safety.
      - pvg 4y ago
        People who used to die from smallpox tended to end up with little in the way of autonomy or liberty and generally did not have a choice in the matter.
    - tresqotheq 4y ago
      >Those are anti-safety philosophical grounds, Not really, because this argument implies that a human being is in danger if not vaccinated. Which is not really the case, because there is a thing called "Natural Immunity", which fights off thousands of pathogens every day. A vaccine is like wearing a bullet proof pendant on top of a kevlar vest. It can save your life if you are hit by a bullet exactly on the pendant, AND your vest happen to have a weak spot exactly behind the pendant.
- jeofken 4y ago
  I would not go to my neighbour and beat her up if she has a different understanding of medicine than me. The same principle applies when doing it through the proxy of the state and the vote.
bitwize 4y ago
The definition was changed recently in order to put people who were concerned about the side effects of highly experimental COVID vaccines into the same category as people who think that proven vaccines, like MMR, cause autism or something. COVID was a crisis that closet authoritarians within the world's governments took as an opportunity.

tresqotheq 4y ago

>a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination But why do they do that? Because they think something is unsafe with the vaccines, right? The other alternative is that they are not interested in reducing their or their kids chances of death from some disease. But that is not possible, and once you eliminate that only the former ones remain. So that means, they just want safer vaccines, no?

gattilorenz 4y ago
> the other alternative is that they are not interested in reducing their or their kids chances of death from some disease. But that is not possible That's a bold claim. There's plenty of people against resuscitation, blood transfusion, organ transplants and other medical practices that are safe and clearly save lives. Like in the case of vaccines, some people have other values guiding them, and one of these principle is not having something imposed on them. Regarding vaccines, safer than what, exactly? How "safe" is "safe enough"? Have you ever compared the safety profile of vaccines vs other commonly used medication?
- strangethrawy 4y ago
  > That's a bold claim. But where are the groups for "anti-organ transplants", or "anti-blood transfusion" etc? One does not often come across references to them on online forms, I think. So clearly we are talking about a substantially large population here. >How "safe" is "safe enough" Quite subjective, so I am not going to answer that. But that is also besides the point. Point is people are called anti-vaxxer, if they doubt the safety of vaccines. Case in point is given below. https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4001.abstract https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4001.abstract
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I haven’t seen laws proposed to mandate transfusions or organ transplants against the wishes of the recipient. If such laws were proposed, you’d rightly hear people objecting to them.
  - gattilorenz 4y ago
    > But where are the groups for "anti-organ transplants", or "anti-blood transfusion" etc? One does not often come across references to them on online forms, I think Conveniently leaving out DNR, I see :) > Point is people are called anti-vaxxer, if they doubt the safety of vaccines People are called anti-vaxxers for a number of reasons, including - but not limited to - the one you mention.
    - tresqotheq 4y ago
      >Conveniently leaving out DNR, I see :) Was not intentional. > People are called anti-vaxxers for a number of reasons, including - but not limited to - the one you mention. Then I think that group asking for safer vaccines should be called "safe-vaxxers", right?
      - gattilorenz 4y ago
        > Then I think that group asking for safer vaccines should be called "safe-vaxxers", right? Sure, if you get the general speakers of English to agree on it, it might reflect a nuance that the current term misses. I have the feeling though that most people don't care, since the term "anti-vaxxers" is not used by sociologists or by people that do not want to be vaccinated for reason X, and is instead used by the average person in an argument.
sokoloff 4y ago
I oppose the mandating of vaccines while believing they are generally safe and effective, stayed up late to sign up and drove a substantial distance to ensure I got a COVID vaccine on literally the first day I was eligible and our family was all vax’d within the first week of eligibility. I’m pro-vaccine. I believe in individual autonomy over their body and, while I’d try to convince anyone to choose to get the vaccine, if they won’t choose that, I don’t feel like society should have the right to impose it. I’m anti-mandate (on philosophical grounds not safety grounds). I’m pro-vaccine and anti-mandate. If you want to call that position “anti-vax”, so be it; I don’t believe I have the right to mandate the language you choose either.
- pvg 4y ago
  I’m anti-mandate (on philosophical grounds not safety grounds). Those are anti-safety philosophical grounds, though. Without mandates we'd have significantly higher child morality. We'd also be talking about smallpox rather than monkeypox outbreaks.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Indeed liberty and safety, both desirable qualities in isolation, are in tension here. Different people can have different philosophies about the optimal tradeoff. Some would choose safety over liberty; others liberty over safety.
    - pvg 4y ago
      People who used to die from smallpox tended to end up with little in the way of autonomy or liberty and generally did not have a choice in the matter.
  - tresqotheq 4y ago
    >Those are anti-safety philosophical grounds, Not really, because this argument implies that a human being is in danger if not vaccinated. Which is not really the case, because there is a thing called "Natural Immunity", which fights off thousands of pathogens every day. A vaccine is like wearing a bullet proof pendant on top of a kevlar vest. It can save your life if you are hit by a bullet exactly on the pendant, AND your vest happen to have a weak spot exactly behind the pendant.
jeofken 4y ago
I would not go to my neighbour and beat her up if she has a different understanding of medicine than me. The same principle applies when doing it through the proxy of the state and the vote.

bitwize 4y ago

The definition was changed recently in order to put people who were concerned about the side effects of highly experimental COVID vaccines into the same category as people who think that proven vaccines, like MMR, cause autism or something. COVID was a crisis that closet authoritarians within the world's governments took as an opportunity.