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> Sanctions on Cuba? This is not because Cuba or Castro is "bad". We have absolutely no problem propping up horrific dictators as "allies" when it suits us (eg

> Sanctions on Cuba? This is not because Cuba or Castro is "bad". We have absolutely no problem propping up horrific dictators as "allies" when it suits us (eg Pinochet, MBS, Saddam Hussein until it didn't suit us, even Erdogan, arguably even Netanyahu). What's the real issue with Cuba? Castro nationalized assets and resources that belonged to US corporations. Close, but not quite right. Castro nationalized assets and resources that belonged to various people all of whom now live in Florida and vote as a bloc. Note that Obama actually tried to end the Cuban embargo, but was stopped due to politicians afraid of upsetting the various people-who-hate-Cuba-for-this-specific-reason.

uncletaco 4y ago
I wonder if they’ll be more willing to revisit sanctions now that Florida is all but a red state. Given that bloc isn’t in a swing state anymore it makes sense on the surface.
- SkyMarshal 4y ago
  Florida is still too close for any party to take for granted. Also those anti-Castro Cubans in FL are single-issue voters, and also can’t be taken for granted.
  - vhgyu75e6u 4y ago
    There is also a small cluster of Venezuelans that will vote GOP because they have, historically, a harder stance on Cuba and the Dictatorship in Venezuela. Funny how left leaning voters call out imperialism but forget that Cuba, Russia and China have been doing that in Venezuela the last 30 years
    - mantas 4y ago
      It's imperialism when US/West does, but it's spreading of love when Russia/USSR (and now China) does it... :/
  - digisign 4y ago
    Curious, how would a single state have a huge influence in DC?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - stjohnswarts 4y ago
      Because it's still "sort of" a swing state, and there is a lot of money in Florida and they have a LOT of lobbyists in Congress handing out money to critical senators and reps for their votes. Also in general MAGAs don't like brown people so it's easy to convince them that "Cuba bad"
      - wahern 4y ago
        > Also in general MAGAs don't like brown people so it's easy to convince them that "Cuba bad" The modern image of Cubans in the U.S. is effectively of white people, on account of the particular classes of Cubans which emigrated to the U.S. This also belies Cuba's own racial hierarchy, which mirrors that of most of the Americas.
    - uncletaco 4y ago
      Florida is 3rd largest state in terms of population. That means 3rd most electoral votes, third most house representatives. It’s also home to an important port of entry (Miami) numerous trade ports, offshore drilling, and many large companies have a significant presence there (Walt Disney World is its own county and Disney has special status to practically govern this county and provide its civil services like police, firefighters, etc). While it’s only one state in the US it cannot be downplayed that it has an outsize influence compared to, say, Wyoming.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      As another reply said, Florida is the third largest state, with the third largest number of electoral votes. Since electoral votes are winner-take-all (with a couple of exceptions), all you need is a tiny minority to make a huge impact on who wins the Presidency. The two largest states reliably vote the same way in each election, but Florida is at least somewhat up for grabs. So Florida is one of the most important opportunities to make a big impact with a small advantage. If this seems like an incredibly stupid way to run things... yes, we know.
Supermancho 4y ago
> Close, but not quite right. Castro nationalized assets and resources that belonged to various people all of whom now live in Florida and vote as a bloc. A bloc that resides in Florida is not responsible for the US policy against Cuba over the last 60+ years. Not to say it's not an element, but it's simply impractical as a flat reasoning. The nearby danger narrative is useful is another aspect. There are a few in aggregate.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
Bingo. Well organised single-issue swing-state voting blocks are incredibly powerful. Particularly when they care strongly about an issue most Americans couldn’t give two fucks for.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
A Democracy that listens to voters? That's terrifying!
- jmyeet 4y ago
  Florida actually has voter propositions but these are routinely thwarted by the governor and the judiciary. Examples: 1. Florida has (3 times IIRC) voted to legalize recreational marijuana. All of those have been thrown on by a court on procedural grounds; and 2. In 2018, Floridians voted to restore the right to vote to the state's estimated 1.5 million felons, which would've been an amazing step forward. The response? DeSantis basically waited until the last possible moment of the next election and instituted a poll tax, that is that any felon would have to pay full restitution to the state. Not enough time to challenge this before the election. Felons tend to skew poor so having to pay several thousand dollars in, say, court costs and probation "costs" acted as an effective barrier to the will of the people. One should remember that as horrible as almost every Republican state government is, most of them are minority governments that are kept in power by extreme gerrymandering. Wisconsin is a prime example, where Democrats lead by 10 points but the Republicans hold an unassailable super majority in the state legislature. Fun fact: Texas has more registered Democrats than registered Republicans. Change is inevitable. REpublican voters like to hold onto to the past (up to and including chattel slavery, sorry "state's rights"). These people skew older and religious. The former is dying off from old age (and Covid) and the latter is in historical decline. I mention this because despite Florida's reputation, voting to restore voting rights to felons passed and is remarkably progressive for the US and we can draw some comfort from that.

uncletaco 4y ago

I wonder if they’ll be more willing to revisit sanctions now that Florida is all but a red state. Given that bloc isn’t in a swing state anymore it makes sense on the surface.

SkyMarshal 4y ago
Florida is still too close for any party to take for granted. Also those anti-Castro Cubans in FL are single-issue voters, and also can’t be taken for granted.
- vhgyu75e6u 4y ago
  There is also a small cluster of Venezuelans that will vote GOP because they have, historically, a harder stance on Cuba and the Dictatorship in Venezuela. Funny how left leaning voters call out imperialism but forget that Cuba, Russia and China have been doing that in Venezuela the last 30 years
  - mantas 4y ago
    It's imperialism when US/West does, but it's spreading of love when Russia/USSR (and now China) does it... :/
- digisign 4y ago
  Curious, how would a single state have a huge influence in DC?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    Because it's still "sort of" a swing state, and there is a lot of money in Florida and they have a LOT of lobbyists in Congress handing out money to critical senators and reps for their votes. Also in general MAGAs don't like brown people so it's easy to convince them that "Cuba bad"
    - wahern 4y ago
      > Also in general MAGAs don't like brown people so it's easy to convince them that "Cuba bad" The modern image of Cubans in the U.S. is effectively of white people, on account of the particular classes of Cubans which emigrated to the U.S. This also belies Cuba's own racial hierarchy, which mirrors that of most of the Americas.
  - uncletaco 4y ago
    Florida is 3rd largest state in terms of population. That means 3rd most electoral votes, third most house representatives. It’s also home to an important port of entry (Miami) numerous trade ports, offshore drilling, and many large companies have a significant presence there (Walt Disney World is its own county and Disney has special status to practically govern this county and provide its civil services like police, firefighters, etc). While it’s only one state in the US it cannot be downplayed that it has an outsize influence compared to, say, Wyoming.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    As another reply said, Florida is the third largest state, with the third largest number of electoral votes. Since electoral votes are winner-take-all (with a couple of exceptions), all you need is a tiny minority to make a huge impact on who wins the Presidency. The two largest states reliably vote the same way in each election, but Florida is at least somewhat up for grabs. So Florida is one of the most important opportunities to make a big impact with a small advantage. If this seems like an incredibly stupid way to run things... yes, we know.

Supermancho 4y ago

> Close, but not quite right. Castro nationalized assets and resources that belonged to various people all of whom now live in Florida and vote as a bloc. A bloc that resides in Florida is not responsible for the US policy against Cuba over the last 60+ years. Not to say it's not an element, but it's simply impractical as a flat reasoning. The nearby danger narrative is useful is another aspect. There are a few in aggregate.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

Bingo. Well organised single-issue swing-state voting blocks are incredibly powerful. Particularly when they care strongly about an issue most Americans couldn’t give two fucks for.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

A Democracy that listens to voters? That's terrifying!

jmyeet 4y ago
Florida actually has voter propositions but these are routinely thwarted by the governor and the judiciary. Examples: 1. Florida has (3 times IIRC) voted to legalize recreational marijuana. All of those have been thrown on by a court on procedural grounds; and 2. In 2018, Floridians voted to restore the right to vote to the state's estimated 1.5 million felons, which would've been an amazing step forward. The response? DeSantis basically waited until the last possible moment of the next election and instituted a poll tax, that is that any felon would have to pay full restitution to the state. Not enough time to challenge this before the election. Felons tend to skew poor so having to pay several thousand dollars in, say, court costs and probation "costs" acted as an effective barrier to the will of the people. One should remember that as horrible as almost every Republican state government is, most of them are minority governments that are kept in power by extreme gerrymandering. Wisconsin is a prime example, where Democrats lead by 10 points but the Republicans hold an unassailable super majority in the state legislature. Fun fact: Texas has more registered Democrats than registered Republicans. Change is inevitable. REpublican voters like to hold onto to the past (up to and including chattel slavery, sorry "state's rights"). These people skew older and religious. The former is dying off from old age (and Covid) and the latter is in historical decline. I mention this because despite Florida's reputation, voting to restore voting rights to felons passed and is remarkably progressive for the US and we can draw some comfort from that.