6 ms·

Because urban planning in North America is totally broken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYHTzqHIngk

whimsicalism 4y ago
Sorry, but there is no world in which shopping at the grocer every day is more convenient than shopping once every 1.5 or even 2 weeks or so. I live in a dense city and very close to grocery stores, this is still true.
- tjoff 4y ago
  There is, it costs less than 10 minutes per day extra and you get quite a bit of freedom from it and at the same time don't have to figure out every meal in advance and can adapt at the last minute. Bonus: I don't have to take the car either.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    I do think people being reluctant to plan their meals is a large part of why this is less common (also most people don't seem to cook as much as I do so it might not add up as much). but stated otherwise, you are saying that my getting a big order saves me 2 hours every time I do it. 10 minutes is also almost certainly an underestimate, assuming you live a 5 minute walk from the grocery store.
    - tjoff 4y ago
      Well, the time and inconvenience to plan for two weeks easily surpasses two hours for me. And having to take the car. Sure, I'd pick a cheaper place with greater options when I go big but that is also a very small price to pay for the convenience. No, it takes less than a minute extra walk from my daily commute (walking), the rest of the nine minutes are to compensate for traversing the grocery store multiple times and wait in line at checkout. If I expand it by another ~4 minutes I have other options as well. If time was of extreme mindless essence I'd also take the bike.
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        2 weeks is maybe 6-8 cooked meals + leftovers, my partner and I will take maybe 15 minutes selecting 3-4 meals each from things we have cooked in the past or we would like to explore. Going daily to the grocery store costs lots of more time. The vast majority of people do not live a 1 minute walk from a grocery store, even in dense urban areas.
        tjoff 4y ago
        I don't live a 1 minute walk from a grocery store either (well, I do, but I don't use that one), but I walk past a few on my 20 minute walk to work. And that have been the case for all of my life in all cities and apartments where I've lived. Doesn't apply to everyone of course (using a bike rather than walking dramatically helps though), but it does tie back to the US urban planning leaving a lot to be desired.
        rglullis 4y ago
        > The vast majority of people do not live a 1 minute walk from a grocery store, even in dense urban areas. In the US, which was the point of my original comment. Here in Berlin I have at least 4 stores (Edeka, Lidl, Al Natura and a no-name Bio Markt ) in a 200m radius. (edit: I am not one to complain about downvotes, but it is ridiculous to see this comment in gray, yet no one able to actually address the point. Bad urban planning and car-dependency in North America is intertwined with a lot of cultural aspects of the society, including this ridiculous notion that groceries are "inconvenient" and therefore better if done in bulk and/or less frequently)
        pessimizer 4y ago
        The downvotes are probably because you're claiming that you walk 200m in a minute.
        rglullis 4y ago
        It is not the claim at all and still missing the point.
    - Zababa 4y ago
      > 10 minutes is also almost certainly an underestimate, assuming you live a 5 minute walk from the grocery store. That depends, it's recommended to walk a certain amount every day to stay healthy. If the trip to the grocery store is part of that, then you don't have to count it in the time spent.
- rglullis 4y ago
  If you are shopping mostly food that is processed and that favors longevity over quality and freshness, sure. If you have a minimal amount of care for what you and your family eat, you will be buying every other day anyway. Also, if you watch the video you will see that bi-weekly driving/parking for groceries eats more of your time budget than multiple small trips to a well-located shop.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    just not true, but I also don't eat meat or dairy so that might be a factor. most produce does not spoil anywhere near as fast as you are suggesting.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > If you have a minimal amount of care for what you and your family eat, you will be buying every other day anyway. That's untrue. Produce, especially if bought fresh, keeps for longer than 2 days in the fridge. Certain items keep longer than others - carrots (of which I am especially fond of snacking on) keep very well.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Yeah, but they don't keep for 2 weeks, which is how often suburbanites shop in the US.
      - robonerd 4y ago
        A head of lettuce easily lasts 2 weeks in a fridge; loose or chopped lettuce lasts maybe half as long. Fruit last in the fruit basket on my counter, not even the fridge, for two weeks at least. Grapes I put in the fridge, and they last for weeks before they start to raisin up. What doesn't last for two weeks in a fridge?
        rglullis 4y ago
        Like I said: food in the US is designed for longevity, not for flavor or general quality. Organic stuff and local produce are not like that. They don't last as long. I for one can not eat lettuce that has been on the fridge for more than 3 days.
- quadrifoliate 4y ago
  > there is no world in which shopping at the grocer every day is more convenient than shopping once every 1.5 or even 2 weeks or so I was with you until this rather extreme statement. It depends a lot on what "convenient" means. If you want fresh produce and meat and don't have the huge fridges that seem to exist in most American households, it's a lot more convenient to shop for fresh, newly arrived stuff at a small neighborhood grocer's every 2-3 days. It's also a form of social contact, another thing which isn't really included in "convenience", but maybe should be; given how many people are talking about mental health problems caused by lack of social contact these days.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > If you want fresh produce and meat and don't have the huge fridges that seem to exist in most American households How far do you take this? If you don't have a refrigerator at all, or any way to prepare food at home, then it's more convenient to eat out three times a day.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    I think the produce thing is not as big of a factor as people seem to think, except for certain things which of necessary I can pick up at the farmers market (SF has one every day). I don't eat animal products so that might be influencing my thoughts around food longevity though. I was measuring convenience in terms of time. It seems from my observation that a lot of people also don't cook for themselves as much as we do, so they might get more value out of the small trip.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      It a lot easier to freeze meat than, e.g, fruits or green produce. Most of my small shopping trips during the week are to buy those: apples, bananas, strawberries, a head of lettuce, and so on.
- jjulius 4y ago
  >Sorry, but there is no world in which shopping at the grocer every day is more convenient than shopping once every 1.5 or even 2 weeks or so. For you. I keep seeing your replies throughout this chain and I can't help but notice that you seem to be astounded by differences in what ultimately amounts to personal preference. What might be convenient shopping for you may not be convenient shopping for others. Lifestyle, locale, general eating habits and personal taste, among other things, are significant contributing factors to these differences.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Yes, I am saying that if you cook frequently for yourself, it takes more time to shop every day. Some people enjoy going on walks every day, some people order lots of take out, etc. All of those are acceptable. I am only largely disagreeing with the people who claim that somehow these two alternatives take a comparable amount of time (and the people suggesting that I must have no taste in vegetables or live in suburbia).
    - amelius 4y ago
      But what about the claim in the video that there is more food waste in the US?
    - prmoustache 4y ago
      > Yes, I am saying that if you cook frequently for yourself, it takes more time to shop every day. I don't think there is a single rule. I depends entirely which day/hour you do the shopping and where. When I lived in Switzerland supermarkets were closed from saturday at 5pm during the weekend. Which means doing your shopping on friday night or saturday would take a lot of time as a lot of people were doing the same. Doing it any other day of the week was much quieter. I don't necessarily shop every day, but I do it several times a week. Also I don't buy my vegetables at the supermarket but at the fruteria (spanish place where you only buy fruits and vegetables). I mostly avoid premade dishes, I even do my own pizzas and tart doughs as well as bread sometimes. That means I am cooking every day. Problem with shopping once a week is I would have to decide for 7 breakfasts, 7 meals and at least 6 dinners. That is a lot of planning and live very little room for improvisation unless you are wiling to waste things or have a giant refrigerator which I have no room for in my european kitchen. And yes I enjoy going out for a walk/ride every day after work so it is not annoying at all. There is a lot of parameters to take into account, home space, schedules, shop opening hours, proximity, if tap water is drinkable and taste good...YMMV.
- nautilius 4y ago
  There's a huge world you are not aware of then: I used to stop at a small grocer downtown every day on my bike commute home. That's absolutely a lot less time and much less hassle than getting the car out, driving to some huge shop with lots of parking, finding parking, filling gas, and then making several trips from car to home. And, obviously, if you want fresh bread/produce/etc. that requires more frequent shopping.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  It depends on how you measure convenience. The madhouse of a Costco or supermarkets on a weekend is time efficient, but it’s stressful. A quiet and daily shopping experience can be a pleasant way to unwind after a day of work.
- ginko 4y ago
  I can't imagine only shopping every 1.5 or 2 weeks or so. What kind of produce or meat even stays fresh that long?! I usually decide what I want to cook on the evening when I go grocery shopping. Weekends kind of suck because I have to plan two days ahead. (and have to carry two days worth of food)
_huayra_ 4y ago
Exactly. I'd have to make a giant stroad-y detour to/from the office to go to the grocery store. Even if gas wasn't $5 / gallon, the time sink isn't worth it

whimsicalism 4y ago

Sorry, but there is no world in which shopping at the grocer every day is more convenient than shopping once every 1.5 or even 2 weeks or so. I live in a dense city and very close to grocery stores, this is still true.

tjoff 4y ago
There is, it costs less than 10 minutes per day extra and you get quite a bit of freedom from it and at the same time don't have to figure out every meal in advance and can adapt at the last minute. Bonus: I don't have to take the car either.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  I do think people being reluctant to plan their meals is a large part of why this is less common (also most people don't seem to cook as much as I do so it might not add up as much). but stated otherwise, you are saying that my getting a big order saves me 2 hours every time I do it. 10 minutes is also almost certainly an underestimate, assuming you live a 5 minute walk from the grocery store.
  - tjoff 4y ago
    Well, the time and inconvenience to plan for two weeks easily surpasses two hours for me. And having to take the car. Sure, I'd pick a cheaper place with greater options when I go big but that is also a very small price to pay for the convenience. No, it takes less than a minute extra walk from my daily commute (walking), the rest of the nine minutes are to compensate for traversing the grocery store multiple times and wait in line at checkout. If I expand it by another ~4 minutes I have other options as well. If time was of extreme mindless essence I'd also take the bike.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      2 weeks is maybe 6-8 cooked meals + leftovers, my partner and I will take maybe 15 minutes selecting 3-4 meals each from things we have cooked in the past or we would like to explore. Going daily to the grocery store costs lots of more time. The vast majority of people do not live a 1 minute walk from a grocery store, even in dense urban areas.
      - tjoff 4y ago
        I don't live a 1 minute walk from a grocery store either (well, I do, but I don't use that one), but I walk past a few on my 20 minute walk to work. And that have been the case for all of my life in all cities and apartments where I've lived. Doesn't apply to everyone of course (using a bike rather than walking dramatically helps though), but it does tie back to the US urban planning leaving a lot to be desired.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        > The vast majority of people do not live a 1 minute walk from a grocery store, even in dense urban areas. In the US, which was the point of my original comment. Here in Berlin I have at least 4 stores (Edeka, Lidl, Al Natura and a no-name Bio Markt ) in a 200m radius. (edit: I am not one to complain about downvotes, but it is ridiculous to see this comment in gray, yet no one able to actually address the point. Bad urban planning and car-dependency in North America is intertwined with a lot of cultural aspects of the society, including this ridiculous notion that groceries are "inconvenient" and therefore better if done in bulk and/or less frequently)
        pessimizer 4y ago
        The downvotes are probably because you're claiming that you walk 200m in a minute.
        rglullis 4y ago
        It is not the claim at all and still missing the point.
  - Zababa 4y ago
    > 10 minutes is also almost certainly an underestimate, assuming you live a 5 minute walk from the grocery store. That depends, it's recommended to walk a certain amount every day to stay healthy. If the trip to the grocery store is part of that, then you don't have to count it in the time spent.
rglullis 4y ago
If you are shopping mostly food that is processed and that favors longevity over quality and freshness, sure. If you have a minimal amount of care for what you and your family eat, you will be buying every other day anyway. Also, if you watch the video you will see that bi-weekly driving/parking for groceries eats more of your time budget than multiple small trips to a well-located shop.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  just not true, but I also don't eat meat or dairy so that might be a factor. most produce does not spoil anywhere near as fast as you are suggesting.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > If you have a minimal amount of care for what you and your family eat, you will be buying every other day anyway. That's untrue. Produce, especially if bought fresh, keeps for longer than 2 days in the fridge. Certain items keep longer than others - carrots (of which I am especially fond of snacking on) keep very well.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Yeah, but they don't keep for 2 weeks, which is how often suburbanites shop in the US.
    - robonerd 4y ago
      A head of lettuce easily lasts 2 weeks in a fridge; loose or chopped lettuce lasts maybe half as long. Fruit last in the fruit basket on my counter, not even the fridge, for two weeks at least. Grapes I put in the fridge, and they last for weeks before they start to raisin up. What doesn't last for two weeks in a fridge?
      - rglullis 4y ago
        Like I said: food in the US is designed for longevity, not for flavor or general quality. Organic stuff and local produce are not like that. They don't last as long. I for one can not eat lettuce that has been on the fridge for more than 3 days.
quadrifoliate 4y ago
> there is no world in which shopping at the grocer every day is more convenient than shopping once every 1.5 or even 2 weeks or so I was with you until this rather extreme statement. It depends a lot on what "convenient" means. If you want fresh produce and meat and don't have the huge fridges that seem to exist in most American households, it's a lot more convenient to shop for fresh, newly arrived stuff at a small neighborhood grocer's every 2-3 days. It's also a form of social contact, another thing which isn't really included in "convenience", but maybe should be; given how many people are talking about mental health problems caused by lack of social contact these days.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > If you want fresh produce and meat and don't have the huge fridges that seem to exist in most American households How far do you take this? If you don't have a refrigerator at all, or any way to prepare food at home, then it's more convenient to eat out three times a day.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  I think the produce thing is not as big of a factor as people seem to think, except for certain things which of necessary I can pick up at the farmers market (SF has one every day). I don't eat animal products so that might be influencing my thoughts around food longevity though. I was measuring convenience in terms of time. It seems from my observation that a lot of people also don't cook for themselves as much as we do, so they might get more value out of the small trip.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    It a lot easier to freeze meat than, e.g, fruits or green produce. Most of my small shopping trips during the week are to buy those: apples, bananas, strawberries, a head of lettuce, and so on.
jjulius 4y ago
>Sorry, but there is no world in which shopping at the grocer every day is more convenient than shopping once every 1.5 or even 2 weeks or so. For you. I keep seeing your replies throughout this chain and I can't help but notice that you seem to be astounded by differences in what ultimately amounts to personal preference. What might be convenient shopping for you may not be convenient shopping for others. Lifestyle, locale, general eating habits and personal taste, among other things, are significant contributing factors to these differences.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Yes, I am saying that if you cook frequently for yourself, it takes more time to shop every day. Some people enjoy going on walks every day, some people order lots of take out, etc. All of those are acceptable. I am only largely disagreeing with the people who claim that somehow these two alternatives take a comparable amount of time (and the people suggesting that I must have no taste in vegetables or live in suburbia).
  - amelius 4y ago
    But what about the claim in the video that there is more food waste in the US?
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    > Yes, I am saying that if you cook frequently for yourself, it takes more time to shop every day. I don't think there is a single rule. I depends entirely which day/hour you do the shopping and where. When I lived in Switzerland supermarkets were closed from saturday at 5pm during the weekend. Which means doing your shopping on friday night or saturday would take a lot of time as a lot of people were doing the same. Doing it any other day of the week was much quieter. I don't necessarily shop every day, but I do it several times a week. Also I don't buy my vegetables at the supermarket but at the fruteria (spanish place where you only buy fruits and vegetables). I mostly avoid premade dishes, I even do my own pizzas and tart doughs as well as bread sometimes. That means I am cooking every day. Problem with shopping once a week is I would have to decide for 7 breakfasts, 7 meals and at least 6 dinners. That is a lot of planning and live very little room for improvisation unless you are wiling to waste things or have a giant refrigerator which I have no room for in my european kitchen. And yes I enjoy going out for a walk/ride every day after work so it is not annoying at all. There is a lot of parameters to take into account, home space, schedules, shop opening hours, proximity, if tap water is drinkable and taste good...YMMV.
nautilius 4y ago
There's a huge world you are not aware of then: I used to stop at a small grocer downtown every day on my bike commute home. That's absolutely a lot less time and much less hassle than getting the car out, driving to some huge shop with lots of parking, finding parking, filling gas, and then making several trips from car to home. And, obviously, if you want fresh bread/produce/etc. that requires more frequent shopping.
nobodyandproud 4y ago
It depends on how you measure convenience. The madhouse of a Costco or supermarkets on a weekend is time efficient, but it’s stressful. A quiet and daily shopping experience can be a pleasant way to unwind after a day of work.
ginko 4y ago
I can't imagine only shopping every 1.5 or 2 weeks or so. What kind of produce or meat even stays fresh that long?! I usually decide what I want to cook on the evening when I go grocery shopping. Weekends kind of suck because I have to plan two days ahead. (and have to carry two days worth of food)

_huayra_ 4y ago

Exactly. I'd have to make a giant stroad-y detour to/from the office to go to the grocery store. Even if gas wasn't $5 / gallon, the time sink isn't worth it