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We don't need to force them. Where did I say I want to force them? I pointed out that the conundrum of repairability vs. quality is made up, or at least dramat

We don't need to force them. Where did I say I want to force them? I pointed out that the conundrum of repairability vs. quality is made up, or at least dramatically overstated. There is currently only one company that I know of that focused on repairability in their phones (Fairphone) and they have a hard time competing on other factors due to the fact that they are tiny. Now your are going to say that them being tiny means nobody wants repairability. Then I'm going to say that people do, but it's just one aspect and that the phone is lacking in others. Then you are going say that this means you can't build good repairable phones. To which I will say that you can but nobody but one small company is trying. At which point we will be stick in an endless loop. Truth is, if Apple really wanted the could design their phones in such a way that you could open the back with a couple of screws go replace the battery, but they have no motivation to do so and instead prioritize other aspects. 99% of the industry does the same.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Screw choices are really important when it comes to reliability and production costs. Yes, they could make a couple of screws that the user could remove, but those screws also tend to come loose on their own… I don’t really buy that apple’s engineers are incompetent, rather they are making a bunch of design decisions and trade offs that make their phones more appealing for consumers to want to buy. Yes, they could make other trade offs.
- turbinerneiter 4y ago
  I never said they are incompetent. These trade offs are far sampler than what they want people to believe. Apple has the budget and the talent to do it. They don't because they don't want to. //edit: also screws are not the only option, see Pixel 6 which doesn't have screws but still makes it easier to open up the phone. That's fine and that's their right, but we should call it what it is, and not act like a screw is something impossible to design.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    I was referring to > This is a made up target-conflict that is easily resolved by any trained industrial designer and engineer. It seems like your first comment was claiming that Apple could easily solve these issues without trade off.
    - turbinerneiter 4y ago
      Yes, I think they could. They have the best engineers in the world and incredible amounts of money. The regularly invent new manufacturing techniques to enable their new designs. They often invest heavily in their suppliers to enable them to make the parts they need. If Apple wanted to they could make an iPhone that people love and has all the features they want and be much easier to repair then the current version.
      - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
        Apple tried to make the MacBook Pro just a few millimeters thinner and gave us the disastrous, almost-universally-loathed butterfly keyboard. I feel like your view that Apple engineers have massive design margins they are choosing not to exploit is just not real.
        turbinerneiter 4y ago
        Maybe your view that a massive design margins are needed is not real. Literally the choice of glue can make a huge difference for ease of repair with no impact on the design.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

Screw choices are really important when it comes to reliability and production costs. Yes, they could make a couple of screws that the user could remove, but those screws also tend to come loose on their own… I don’t really buy that apple’s engineers are incompetent, rather they are making a bunch of design decisions and trade offs that make their phones more appealing for consumers to want to buy. Yes, they could make other trade offs.

turbinerneiter 4y ago
I never said they are incompetent. These trade offs are far sampler than what they want people to believe. Apple has the budget and the talent to do it. They don't because they don't want to. //edit: also screws are not the only option, see Pixel 6 which doesn't have screws but still makes it easier to open up the phone. That's fine and that's their right, but we should call it what it is, and not act like a screw is something impossible to design.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  I was referring to > This is a made up target-conflict that is easily resolved by any trained industrial designer and engineer. It seems like your first comment was claiming that Apple could easily solve these issues without trade off.
  - turbinerneiter 4y ago
    Yes, I think they could. They have the best engineers in the world and incredible amounts of money. The regularly invent new manufacturing techniques to enable their new designs. They often invest heavily in their suppliers to enable them to make the parts they need. If Apple wanted to they could make an iPhone that people love and has all the features they want and be much easier to repair then the current version.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      Apple tried to make the MacBook Pro just a few millimeters thinner and gave us the disastrous, almost-universally-loathed butterfly keyboard. I feel like your view that Apple engineers have massive design margins they are choosing not to exploit is just not real.
      - turbinerneiter 4y ago
        Maybe your view that a massive design margins are needed is not real. Literally the choice of glue can make a huge difference for ease of repair with no impact on the design.