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> Probably something to the extend of “tools to repair must be found in any general DIY store”. Does everyone realize how insanely bad this would be for phone

> Probably something to the extend of “tools to repair must be found in any general DIY store”. Does everyone realize how insanely bad this would be for phone progress? If we’re forcing manufacturers to avoid specialty adhesives and tooling, the overall quality and size of phones would be greatly compromised. I understand a lot of HN commenters will say they don’t care if their phones are twice as big and not waterproof as long as they can replace the battery with a screwdriver from Home Depot, but that’s not even close to typical consumer behavior. People want small, waterproof phones. Making laws to force companies to compromise everything so 1% of buyers can swap batteries at home instead of paying for official repair service is one of the more out of touch product suggestions I’ve read on HN.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
What I don’t understand is why do people feel the need to force Apple to produce what they could have just gotten from another phone vendor? Is it about denying other people choice (so we are all forced to carry around bulkier phones), or do they believe that Apple would make the DIY repairable phone they wanted better than the other phone producers? It doesn’t make sense to me.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  It’s because they want all the benefits of the iPhone and all of the openness and repair ability of the PinePhone, but they don’t want to have to compromise anywhere. The reality is that the magical solution doesn’t exist and can’t practically exist. There would be major tradeoffs with much of what’s being suggested in this thread, many of which would make the phone undesirable to the people demanding it.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  Presumably to minimize e-waste, as it's more likely people will hang onto their old phones (or hand them down or resell them) if they can revitalize them with a cheap battery/display swap. Things like recycling marks, appliance energy efficiency etc are all already regulated.
- kllrnohj 4y ago
  You're ignoring ecosystem lock-in, which Apple is extremely effective at (eg, iMessage's "green bubble" bullying). Regulation fills the gap when freedom of choice & ease of movement isn't actually viable for most people. See also search engine regulations, even though the barrier for using a competing product is much lower than it is for switching smartphone ecosystems Also in this case you're ignoring the bigger picture of the entire industry is incentivized to be "anti-consumer" and hamper repairs. Right to repair isn't about Apple, it's about everyone. Nobody is going after Apple specifically, they are just the leading example. Samsung, Motorola, etc... are all offenders here as well.
- Teever 4y ago
  Because they feel that society should regulate entities like Apple to behave this way because they feel it's better for them as individuals and society as a whole if a corporation the size of Apple was regulated in this fashion?
ghaff 4y ago
They should probably ban surface mount components as well. Those make it really hard to repair PCBs. </s> You can argue about specific design/manufacturing decisions but, in the aggregate, but in general there's a huge amount of modern technology that's become much more complex and difficult to repair especially at the individual component level. But most people probably don't actually want to go back to 1980s vintage car phones.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> the overall quality and size of phones would be greatly compromised Har, har, the phone would be 0.02mm thicker! Unacceptable! Seriously? Take any smartphone from 2014 and compare with your current one. They didn't thinned that much. Hell, I do it for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_13 Dimensions 13: H: 146.7 mm (5.78 in) W: 71.5 mm (2.81 in) D: 7.65 mm (0.301 in) 13 Mini: H: 131.5 mm (5.18 in) W: 64.2 mm (2.53 in) D: 7.65 mm (0.301 in) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_Razr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_Razr Dimensions 130.7 mm (5.15 in) H 68.9 mm (2.71 in) W 7.1 mm (0.28 in) D <-- LOL (MAXX: 8.99 mm (0.354 in) D) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G4 Dimensions G4 Play: 144.4 mm (5.69 in) H 72 mm (2.8 in) W 9.9 mm (0.39 in) D G4, G4 Plus: 153 mm (6.0 in) H 76.6 mm (3.02 in) W 9.8 mm (0.39 in) D
mdoms 4y ago

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

What I don’t understand is why do people feel the need to force Apple to produce what they could have just gotten from another phone vendor? Is it about denying other people choice (so we are all forced to carry around bulkier phones), or do they believe that Apple would make the DIY repairable phone they wanted better than the other phone producers? It doesn’t make sense to me.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
It’s because they want all the benefits of the iPhone and all of the openness and repair ability of the PinePhone, but they don’t want to have to compromise anywhere. The reality is that the magical solution doesn’t exist and can’t practically exist. There would be major tradeoffs with much of what’s being suggested in this thread, many of which would make the phone undesirable to the people demanding it.
kalleboo 4y ago
Presumably to minimize e-waste, as it's more likely people will hang onto their old phones (or hand them down or resell them) if they can revitalize them with a cheap battery/display swap. Things like recycling marks, appliance energy efficiency etc are all already regulated.
kllrnohj 4y ago
You're ignoring ecosystem lock-in, which Apple is extremely effective at (eg, iMessage's "green bubble" bullying). Regulation fills the gap when freedom of choice & ease of movement isn't actually viable for most people. See also search engine regulations, even though the barrier for using a competing product is much lower than it is for switching smartphone ecosystems Also in this case you're ignoring the bigger picture of the entire industry is incentivized to be "anti-consumer" and hamper repairs. Right to repair isn't about Apple, it's about everyone. Nobody is going after Apple specifically, they are just the leading example. Samsung, Motorola, etc... are all offenders here as well.
Teever 4y ago
Because they feel that society should regulate entities like Apple to behave this way because they feel it's better for them as individuals and society as a whole if a corporation the size of Apple was regulated in this fashion?

ghaff 4y ago

They should probably ban surface mount components as well. Those make it really hard to repair PCBs. </s> You can argue about specific design/manufacturing decisions but, in the aggregate, but in general there's a huge amount of modern technology that's become much more complex and difficult to repair especially at the individual component level. But most people probably don't actually want to go back to 1980s vintage car phones.

justsomehnguy 4y ago

> the overall quality and size of phones would be greatly compromised Har, har, the phone would be 0.02mm thicker! Unacceptable! Seriously? Take any smartphone from 2014 and compare with your current one. They didn't thinned that much. Hell, I do it for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_13 Dimensions 13: H: 146.7 mm (5.78 in) W: 71.5 mm (2.81 in) D: 7.65 mm (0.301 in) 13 Mini: H: 131.5 mm (5.18 in) W: 64.2 mm (2.53 in) D: 7.65 mm (0.301 in) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_Razr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_Razr Dimensions 130.7 mm (5.15 in) H 68.9 mm (2.71 in) W 7.1 mm (0.28 in) D <-- LOL (MAXX: 8.99 mm (0.354 in) D) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G4 Dimensions G4 Play: 144.4 mm (5.69 in) H 72 mm (2.8 in) W 9.9 mm (0.39 in) D G4, G4 Plus: 153 mm (6.0 in) H 76.6 mm (3.02 in) W 9.8 mm (0.39 in) D

mdoms 4y ago