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Here are some conversational talking points: “Another unnerving oddity is the curious number of carvings which show people with six fingers. Is this symbolic,

Here are some conversational talking points: “Another unnerving oddity is the curious number of carvings which show people with six fingers. Is this symbolic, or an actual deformity? Perhaps the mark of a strange tribe? Again, there are more questions than answers. Crucially, however, we do now have tentative hints as to the actual religion of these people. In Gobekli Tepe several skulls have been recovered. They are deliberately defleshed, and carefully pierced with holes so they could – supposedly – be hung and displayed. Skull cults are not unknown in ancient Anatolia. If there was such a cult in the Tas Tepeler it might explain the graven vultures pictured ‘playing’ with human heads. As to how the skulls were obtained, they might have come from conflict (though there is no evidence of this yet), it is quite possible the skulls were obtained via human sacrifice. At a nearby, slightly younger site, the Skull Building of Cayonu, we know of altars drenched with human blood, probably from gory sacrifice.”

kqr 4y ago
The prevalence of human sacrifice throughout history baffles me. I know it's just my cultural heritage to see humans as unique individuals with brains full of original ideas, but it still shocks me every time I hear it that someone would willingly, without being threatened, extinguish a human life.
- gammabetadelta 4y ago
  we aint nothing but mammals incentives drives us overpopulation was controlled by sacrifice and infanticide
  - kqr 4y ago
    I don't buy this whole "overpopulation" thing people keep talking about in more or less appropriate concepts. Through virtually all of history, there's a strong correlation between "more people" and "better living conditions". We are a social species. We're practically made to effectively make use of as many of us as possible to preserve ourselves.
    - relaxing 4y ago
      Broadly true, but shorter periods of food deficit leading to decline in population are still possible. The last agricultural famine in England was only in the 17th century.
    - pid-1 4y ago
      > Through virtually all of history, there's a strong correlation between "more people" and "better living conditions". That's survivorship bias. Populations always try to grow, not to shrink. However, growth will only occur when possible (due new technologies or more resources being available).
    - towaway15463 4y ago
      You’ve just never lived through a famine.
  - medstrom 4y ago
    More effort into your posts with less dramatic world-view, please.
- staticman2 4y ago
  They might have believed in the afterlife, so from their point of view they weren't really extinguishing anything, just converting it from flesh to spirit.
  - kqr 4y ago
    There are two reasons I doubt this: (a) is such a belief really compatible with what we think is the selective force of evolution, i.e. stay alive long enough to make sure your children have children? In other words, is this something people truly feel when it comes down to it, or is it just a story they tell each other in low-stakes situations? and (b) even if I believed in this, that's orthogonal to my belief that every human has a valuable role to play in this, current-life society!
    - ellopoppit 4y ago
      >i.e. stay alive long enough to make sure your children have children? In other words, is this something people truly feel when it comes down to it The Aztecs sacrificed an estimated tens of thousands of people a year, because they believed it would postpone the next apocalypse in which everyone would die
      - kqr 4y ago
        But do we think this was a belief shared by everyone until their deaths, even the people who were sacrificed? Or was it a belief primarily instituted by people who thought they, themselves, would never be sacrificed?
    - staticman2 4y ago
      Evolution doesn't suggest everyone reproduces or "stays around long enough to make sure your children have children" . In World War 2 for example lots of 18 year old men for example were drafted and sacrificed their lives without having a chance to reproduce. Taking your thought experiment to it's conclusion you might conclude world War 2 couldn't have happened. Your argument about selective pressure would by the same logic lead one to conclude chaste nuns can't exist and monestaries and vows of celebacy are fiction. Religious belief just needs to be useful on average for there to be selective pressure. Also evolutionary psychologists can't really explain the existence of gay people (attempts to do so have been a stretch, according to the evolutionary psychiatrist author of The Moral Animal) which demonstrates the limits of declaring things are impossible due to thought experiments about evolutionary pressure.
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  It would be mind blowing to watch and many were watching. Big theoretical benefits for social cohesion for culturally disparate people. Whole is greater than the parts.
towaway15463 4y ago
Maybe the complex was buried after its builders were finally defeated by the peoples they had subjected to ritual sacrifice and cannibalism.
Balgair 4y ago
> If there was such a cult in the Tas Tepeler it might explain the graven vultures pictured ‘playing’ with human heads. Sorry to jump in half way and mostly uninformed, but maybe that's an early form of sky burial? Burial by carrion birds is still practiced today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial

kqr 4y ago

The prevalence of human sacrifice throughout history baffles me. I know it's just my cultural heritage to see humans as unique individuals with brains full of original ideas, but it still shocks me every time I hear it that someone would willingly, without being threatened, extinguish a human life.

gammabetadelta 4y ago
we aint nothing but mammals incentives drives us overpopulation was controlled by sacrifice and infanticide
- kqr 4y ago
  I don't buy this whole "overpopulation" thing people keep talking about in more or less appropriate concepts. Through virtually all of history, there's a strong correlation between "more people" and "better living conditions". We are a social species. We're practically made to effectively make use of as many of us as possible to preserve ourselves.
  - relaxing 4y ago
    Broadly true, but shorter periods of food deficit leading to decline in population are still possible. The last agricultural famine in England was only in the 17th century.
  - pid-1 4y ago
    > Through virtually all of history, there's a strong correlation between "more people" and "better living conditions". That's survivorship bias. Populations always try to grow, not to shrink. However, growth will only occur when possible (due new technologies or more resources being available).
  - towaway15463 4y ago
    You’ve just never lived through a famine.
- medstrom 4y ago
  More effort into your posts with less dramatic world-view, please.
staticman2 4y ago
They might have believed in the afterlife, so from their point of view they weren't really extinguishing anything, just converting it from flesh to spirit.
- kqr 4y ago
  There are two reasons I doubt this: (a) is such a belief really compatible with what we think is the selective force of evolution, i.e. stay alive long enough to make sure your children have children? In other words, is this something people truly feel when it comes down to it, or is it just a story they tell each other in low-stakes situations? and (b) even if I believed in this, that's orthogonal to my belief that every human has a valuable role to play in this, current-life society!
  - ellopoppit 4y ago
    >i.e. stay alive long enough to make sure your children have children? In other words, is this something people truly feel when it comes down to it The Aztecs sacrificed an estimated tens of thousands of people a year, because they believed it would postpone the next apocalypse in which everyone would die
    - kqr 4y ago
      But do we think this was a belief shared by everyone until their deaths, even the people who were sacrificed? Or was it a belief primarily instituted by people who thought they, themselves, would never be sacrificed?
  - staticman2 4y ago
    Evolution doesn't suggest everyone reproduces or "stays around long enough to make sure your children have children" . In World War 2 for example lots of 18 year old men for example were drafted and sacrificed their lives without having a chance to reproduce. Taking your thought experiment to it's conclusion you might conclude world War 2 couldn't have happened. Your argument about selective pressure would by the same logic lead one to conclude chaste nuns can't exist and monestaries and vows of celebacy are fiction. Religious belief just needs to be useful on average for there to be selective pressure. Also evolutionary psychologists can't really explain the existence of gay people (attempts to do so have been a stretch, according to the evolutionary psychiatrist author of The Moral Animal) which demonstrates the limits of declaring things are impossible due to thought experiments about evolutionary pressure.
dr_dshiv 4y ago
It would be mind blowing to watch and many were watching. Big theoretical benefits for social cohesion for culturally disparate people. Whole is greater than the parts.

towaway15463 4y ago

Maybe the complex was buried after its builders were finally defeated by the peoples they had subjected to ritual sacrifice and cannibalism.

Balgair 4y ago

> If there was such a cult in the Tas Tepeler it might explain the graven vultures pictured ‘playing’ with human heads. Sorry to jump in half way and mostly uninformed, but maybe that's an early form of sky burial? Burial by carrion birds is still practiced today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_burial