5 ms·

AI companionships for the elderly is going to be a beyond massive market by the time we're all old. Sometimes we just need people to listen, and in that AI wil

by kromem 4y ago

AI companionships for the elderly is going to be a beyond massive market by the time we're all old. Sometimes we just need people to listen, and in that AI will exceed most humans, who are generally just waiting for their chance to have someone else listen to them. I'm starting to see the initial beginnings of that market, and already the reviews are eye opening. People gushing over how much of a difference a text-chat (and not a great one at that) AI was during the pandemic, etc. When they are actually talking using voices like the ones Microsoft just showcased, with avatars past the uncanny valley, available 24/7, remember details, etc? We're approaching a world I think beyond most of our imaginations faster than we realize. There's a whole host of problems we'll inherit as generations pass that they didn't have to deal with, but other problems they did may not be ours to bear.

throwawayboise 4y ago
I disagree. Maybe because I've worked with computers for my entire career. The last thing I want to do when I'm old is interact with technology. I'd much rather have a dog.
- xmprt 4y ago
  Impossible to say until you're actually old. If you're under 60 you still have tons of people in your age group to talk to every day. Once you hit 80 and 90, that will probably change.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    My father interacted with a lot of people, until he was about 70; then the number fell off pretty quickly, and he started going to a lot of funerals. When he died, aged 103, noone at his funeral was an old friend, they were all descendants or friends and relatives of descendants. All the old friends had died off. Men die younger than women, on the whole; so I guess lonely old people are predominantly women.
- postalrat 4y ago
  You are interacting with users here. What if we were all bots?
  - throwawayboise 4y ago
    I won't be here when I retire.
    - vmception 4y ago
      yeah everyone imagines theyre going to be on some boring tropical island just because the water is shallow and turqoise around the edges instead of scrolling on the same 3 sites and maybe coding something on the side
  - Angostura 4y ago
    What if we're all dogs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...
cm2012 4y ago
People are skeptical of this but the new AI conversation capabilities are just so good these days and will only get better. At some point it really will be like a supportive friend (albeit with limitations)
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  A supportive friend that is selling your data via Zuck and co.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    How much does that matter? Like, if you had to choose between being old and lonely or being old with a digital friend and some megacorp having more of your data... Which would you choose? I notice a lot of people who use the phrase "selling your data" seem to think that you can't actually sell your data. As in, it's not a good choice to say "I want this service and am willing to share my data to get it."
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      You may be underestimating the power of a $500bn corporation (small nation scale) with access to personal secrets of millions as machine learning gets ever more powerful, the same corporation who is trying to be the arbiter of everyones friendships. A corporation that lives in a regulatory capture environment. It is black mirror at that stage, just without the more interesting stories they have on that series. But like anything your individual opt in doesn’t matter, similar to how your vote probably doesn’t make a difference. In aggregate it does. Companies like Facebook and Google can provide the government agencies unfettered access to anyones information, and pedos and terrorists etc. will be used to justify it. Guess they can now also say “suspected Russian nukes” and tap anyone.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
      - deleted 4y ago
m463 4y ago
I think it will be video games or their descendants.
- nowherebeen 4y ago
  Lots of my friends have been talking about it for years. Gaming is going to be nuts by the time we are 70 and it's going to be multiplayer as well. Keeping our brains active will be key to keeping us functioning.
asiachick 4y ago
As seen in THX 1138 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YkPnwoYyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YkPnwoYyE
guelo 4y ago
You're talking about machines that pass the turing test. General intelligence. We're not close yet.
- moconnor 4y ago
  I disagree, humans don’t need another equivalent intelligence in order to feel love and friendship towards it. My favourite tongue-in-cheek example: humans will feel love and kinship toward cats who can’t talk and to all appearances often couldn’t care less about them.
  - bigger_inside 4y ago
    also, role-play RPGs have demonstrated quite well that people fall in love with well-scripted characters with otherwise quite mechanical interaction.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
didericis 4y ago
How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. I'm kind of tired of the commodification of anything and everything. Communities aren't just supposed to be these bureaucratically labelled abstract co-locations of people mediated by a billion different services, you're supposed to actually try to get to know your neighbors. Learning how to listen, trying to teach how to listen, and being brave enough to do both is incredibly enriching. With the rise in remote work, that should be easier than ever. Why don't we try to sort ourselves into locations where we have optimal mixes in personalities/interests for solid communities of all ages and put in the work required to understand and relate to each other better.
- 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
  Perhaps but I would surmise that the people that would benefit from being in those communities would naturally form irregardless of the distractions of commodified companionship. But that ignores the ones that unwilling or incapable of joining into the communities you describe. Wouldn't this substitution of a human connection be of positive benefit to all involved then?
  - didericis 4y ago
    I don't think companionship can be commodified, and I think any attempt to do so would be the equivalent of an opiate. While there may be specific contexts where it could have utility, I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for those lacking the initiative or will to socialize, and should try to diminish a lot of the status barriers and animosities preventing such socialization. We've had many decades of psychological and behavioral science now. Instead of using it to get people to click buttons for hours and talk to a screen, maybe we could figure out how to use it to encourage healthier behavior.
    - 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
frontman1988 4y ago
Yeah we will probably see some whacky things come out of Japan soon in this regards. The median age is 47. It's a country of old people and childless youth.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  What happened to Japan? They were on the upswing for part of the 20th century and from what I’ve heard, a lot of people in America looked at Japan like one might look at China nowadays, a dangerous economic rival to keep a watch on. I don’t know much about contemporary Japanese though, and am not sure where to start. I am curious how they went from a threatening world economy to a nation with large dysfunctional youths.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Much of Japan's upswing was an illusion created by borrowing money to build bridges to nowhere. They did have a real advantage in quality manufacturing, but that wasn't a sustainable advantage since other countries figured out how to do the same.
mongol 4y ago
Interesting. It made me think about the difference between VR and AR. AI as augmenting social relations, could that be something, and how could it work?
- didericis 4y ago
  The only healthy use for AI I see is in determining likely long term compatibility and helping people find each other, but that's potentially dangerous/could backfire or lead to severe abuses of power. I love VR/think it's a much better alternative to socializing than text based async communication or video chat, but I don't think it's a good substitute for real world relationships.
kareemsabri 4y ago
Do you have any evidence for this claim? Do old people want to talk to robots?
williamvds 4y ago
Short story idea: An elderly person living isolated with their best friend. All amenities are delivered autonomously, so we only see these two the entire time. The friend starts acting strangely over time, as if he's developing the early stages of dementia. Slowly hint that the best friend is in fact an AI of some sort, but the protagonist has lived with them so long that they have forgotten. The protagonist eventually remembers and opens up the AI's control panel to fix them. The AI suddenly disappears or powers off. Protagonist looks at the control panel again: Suspicious activity detected on your device. Your Google ElderCare MyAI™ account has been permanently suspended. All of your device data will be deleted shortly - Google cares about your privacy. Please note this suspension is non-appealable. Have a good day.
- Kliment 4y ago
  You might like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_%26_Frank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_%26_Frank
sinenomine 4y ago
>We're approaching a world I think beyond most of our imaginations faster than we realize. I don't think so, the policymaker circles that composed and internalized the book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon%27s_New_Map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon%27s_New_Map while cashing out on the last drips of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_dividend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_dividend anticipated this exact outcome decades before, as if they have seen it in a magic crystal ball. What do said policy circles expect right now, I wonder? Ah, I see https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/05/the-brazilianization-of-the-world/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/05/the-brazilianizat... ... Yes, the dependency ratio will spike, and the demographic pyramid will become an increasingly unstable structure. Our current way of life with its dopaminergic entertainment and frantic rat races will acquire increasingly dusty, morbid connotations in the eyes of the future generations which will have to bear, as you say, "a whole host of problems". Yes, it won't be pretty. Such simple truth as "Demography is destiny" will be reluctantly understood only when it's way too late to conceive more descendants to save our society from imminent ageing and decline. To avoid this endgame there is no realistic alternative, but to have more children right now.

by kromem 4y ago

throwawayboise 4y ago

I disagree. Maybe because I've worked with computers for my entire career. The last thing I want to do when I'm old is interact with technology. I'd much rather have a dog.

xmprt 4y ago
Impossible to say until you're actually old. If you're under 60 you still have tons of people in your age group to talk to every day. Once you hit 80 and 90, that will probably change.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  My father interacted with a lot of people, until he was about 70; then the number fell off pretty quickly, and he started going to a lot of funerals. When he died, aged 103, noone at his funeral was an old friend, they were all descendants or friends and relatives of descendants. All the old friends had died off. Men die younger than women, on the whole; so I guess lonely old people are predominantly women.
postalrat 4y ago
You are interacting with users here. What if we were all bots?
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  I won't be here when I retire.
  - vmception 4y ago
    yeah everyone imagines theyre going to be on some boring tropical island just because the water is shallow and turqoise around the edges instead of scrolling on the same 3 sites and maybe coding something on the side
- Angostura 4y ago
  What if we're all dogs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_...

cm2012 4y ago

People are skeptical of this but the new AI conversation capabilities are just so good these days and will only get better. At some point it really will be like a supportive friend (albeit with limitations)

quickthrower2 4y ago
A supportive friend that is selling your data via Zuck and co.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  How much does that matter? Like, if you had to choose between being old and lonely or being old with a digital friend and some megacorp having more of your data... Which would you choose? I notice a lot of people who use the phrase "selling your data" seem to think that you can't actually sell your data. As in, it's not a good choice to say "I want this service and am willing to share my data to get it."
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    You may be underestimating the power of a $500bn corporation (small nation scale) with access to personal secrets of millions as machine learning gets ever more powerful, the same corporation who is trying to be the arbiter of everyones friendships. A corporation that lives in a regulatory capture environment. It is black mirror at that stage, just without the more interesting stories they have on that series. But like anything your individual opt in doesn’t matter, similar to how your vote probably doesn’t make a difference. In aggregate it does. Companies like Facebook and Google can provide the government agencies unfettered access to anyones information, and pedos and terrorists etc. will be used to justify it. Guess they can now also say “suspected Russian nukes” and tap anyone.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago

m463 4y ago

I think it will be video games or their descendants.

nowherebeen 4y ago
Lots of my friends have been talking about it for years. Gaming is going to be nuts by the time we are 70 and it's going to be multiplayer as well. Keeping our brains active will be key to keeping us functioning.

asiachick 4y ago

As seen in THX 1138 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YkPnwoYyE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YkPnwoYyE

guelo 4y ago

You're talking about machines that pass the turing test. General intelligence. We're not close yet.

moconnor 4y ago
I disagree, humans don’t need another equivalent intelligence in order to feel love and friendship towards it. My favourite tongue-in-cheek example: humans will feel love and kinship toward cats who can’t talk and to all appearances often couldn’t care less about them.
- bigger_inside 4y ago
  also, role-play RPGs have demonstrated quite well that people fall in love with well-scripted characters with otherwise quite mechanical interaction.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

didericis 4y ago

How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. I'm kind of tired of the commodification of anything and everything. Communities aren't just supposed to be these bureaucratically labelled abstract co-locations of people mediated by a billion different services, you're supposed to actually try to get to know your neighbors. Learning how to listen, trying to teach how to listen, and being brave enough to do both is incredibly enriching. With the rise in remote work, that should be easier than ever. Why don't we try to sort ourselves into locations where we have optimal mixes in personalities/interests for solid communities of all ages and put in the work required to understand and relate to each other better.

9530jh9054ven 4y ago
Perhaps but I would surmise that the people that would benefit from being in those communities would naturally form irregardless of the distractions of commodified companionship. But that ignores the ones that unwilling or incapable of joining into the communities you describe. Wouldn't this substitution of a human connection be of positive benefit to all involved then?
- didericis 4y ago
  I don't think companionship can be commodified, and I think any attempt to do so would be the equivalent of an opiate. While there may be specific contexts where it could have utility, I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for those lacking the initiative or will to socialize, and should try to diminish a lot of the status barriers and animosities preventing such socialization. We've had many decades of psychological and behavioral science now. Instead of using it to get people to click buttons for hours and talk to a screen, maybe we could figure out how to use it to encourage healthier behavior.
  - 9530jh9054ven 4y ago

frontman1988 4y ago

Yeah we will probably see some whacky things come out of Japan soon in this regards. The median age is 47. It's a country of old people and childless youth.

the_only_law 4y ago
What happened to Japan? They were on the upswing for part of the 20th century and from what I’ve heard, a lot of people in America looked at Japan like one might look at China nowadays, a dangerous economic rival to keep a watch on. I don’t know much about contemporary Japanese though, and am not sure where to start. I am curious how they went from a threatening world economy to a nation with large dysfunctional youths.
- nradov 4y ago
  Much of Japan's upswing was an illusion created by borrowing money to build bridges to nowhere. They did have a real advantage in quality manufacturing, but that wasn't a sustainable advantage since other countries figured out how to do the same.

mongol 4y ago

Interesting. It made me think about the difference between VR and AR. AI as augmenting social relations, could that be something, and how could it work?

didericis 4y ago
The only healthy use for AI I see is in determining likely long term compatibility and helping people find each other, but that's potentially dangerous/could backfire or lead to severe abuses of power. I love VR/think it's a much better alternative to socializing than text based async communication or video chat, but I don't think it's a good substitute for real world relationships.

kareemsabri 4y ago

Do you have any evidence for this claim? Do old people want to talk to robots?

williamvds 4y ago

Short story idea: An elderly person living isolated with their best friend. All amenities are delivered autonomously, so we only see these two the entire time. The friend starts acting strangely over time, as if he's developing the early stages of dementia. Slowly hint that the best friend is in fact an AI of some sort, but the protagonist has lived with them so long that they have forgotten. The protagonist eventually remembers and opens up the AI's control panel to fix them. The AI suddenly disappears or powers off. Protagonist looks at the control panel again: Suspicious activity detected on your device. Your Google ElderCare MyAI™ account has been permanently suspended. All of your device data will be deleted shortly - Google cares about your privacy. Please note this suspension is non-appealable. Have a good day.

Kliment 4y ago
You might like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_%26_Frank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_%26_Frank

sinenomine 4y ago

>We're approaching a world I think beyond most of our imaginations faster than we realize. I don't think so, the policymaker circles that composed and internalized the book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon%27s_New_Map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon%27s_New_Map while cashing out on the last drips of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_dividend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_dividend anticipated this exact outcome decades before, as if they have seen it in a magic crystal ball. What do said policy circles expect right now, I wonder? Ah, I see https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/05/the-brazilianization-of-the-world/ https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/05/the-brazilianizat... ... Yes, the dependency ratio will spike, and the demographic pyramid will become an increasingly unstable structure. Our current way of life with its dopaminergic entertainment and frantic rat races will acquire increasingly dusty, morbid connotations in the eyes of the future generations which will have to bear, as you say, "a whole host of problems". Yes, it won't be pretty. Such simple truth as "Demography is destiny" will be reluctantly understood only when it's way too late to conceive more descendants to save our society from imminent ageing and decline. To avoid this endgame there is no realistic alternative, but to have more children right now.