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Losing Ian Goodfellow to DeepMind is the dumbest thing Apple’s ever done

18 points by tiernano 4y ago

jstx1 4y ago
Dumbest? Not even close - he's just one person and Apple don't care about publishing papers, they care about building products. It doesn't seem like a big loss for Apple, and for him Deepmind seems like a much better place because he gets to do research for the sake of doing research.
- dekhn 4y ago
  Agreed. Although, one has to wonder if he specifically negotiated a fully remote role at DM, and what other DM employees who are required to come to the office think about that (I don't know if DM employees are being asked to return liek Google's are).
  - version_five 4y ago
    Yeah there's the whole wisdom of not abiding "assholes", no matter how good they are. Not saying this guy's an asshole necessarily, but if someone wants to undermine company rules by thinking they don't apply, that can have a big impact on morale and culture and be much worse than losing a "star". People can argue that apple should stay remote, and maybe there's an argument they should have, but accepting they require employees to be in-person letting this guy leave was definitely the right move.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Advocating for remote work compensation makes someone an asshole? Company rules and culture last only as long as you can retain talent, and if you bring enough value, the rules don’t apply to you. Clearly Apple is concerned as they’ve postponed their return to office plans. https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-machine-learnin-1848942742 https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-mac...
    - dekhn 4y ago
      Ian (I used to work with him) is sort of the opposite of an asshole. If he did this (and made it public) it meant that he had already talked to everybody up to the SVP of his division he's the sort of person any major org would want, but he makes a better fit in an org that does academic research (google research, deepmind, microsoft, amazo, not apple).
    - _zzaw 4y ago
      Standing up for your quality of life and questioning stupid company policies isn’t being an “asshole” or a prima donna. More of us should be doing it, and more of us are. Apple’s arrogant attitudes regarding its employees were always going to have consequences, given the caliber of people they employ. A lot of us don’t like being forced to work in an office, in no small part because the people who are most vocal about wanting us there are often obnoxious, toxic coworkers who make it harder for us to do our jobs. I expect the companies who continue to be unreasonable about these quality-of-life issues will find themselves at a disadvantage when it comes to hiring and retaining talent. Good on him; hope to see more of this.
    - anamax 4y ago
      Didn't that ship sail with Urs Hölzle?
HellDunkel 4y ago
If a (ml) managing director publicly says he is not willing to „return to office“ is he really speaking as an individual? Or does he speak up in the name of his team? His team probably was tiny in terms of apple dimensions but surely of strategic importance. They probably could have easily made an exception in his case and for the whole team. I could imagine they did not talk much.
quitit 4y ago
He returned to Google which has a similar back to work policy as Apple (3 days per week in person/2 flexible). It’s pretty clear IG is just returning to where he is most comfortable; he has spent most of his career with Google. Tech reporting too often over states the importance of one individual, especially with Apple eg “jobs” “ive” “schiller” etc., but Apple is not a pristine white garage of 10 people tinkering in isolation. The narrative of over stating the importance of one departed individual is a journalism construct to support the oft retold click-bait of apple being forever a doomed company. It’s time to bring back the Apple death knell counter, because a new generation of readers haven’t realised it this: Bad Apple news gets the clicks, and these people are suckers for constantly falling for it.

18 points by tiernano 4y ago

Dumbest? Not even close - he's just one person and Apple don't care about publishing papers, they care about building products. It doesn't seem like a big loss for Apple, and for him Deepmind seems like a much better place because he gets to do research for the sake of doing research.

dekhn 4y ago
Agreed. Although, one has to wonder if he specifically negotiated a fully remote role at DM, and what other DM employees who are required to come to the office think about that (I don't know if DM employees are being asked to return liek Google's are).
- version_five 4y ago
  Yeah there's the whole wisdom of not abiding "assholes", no matter how good they are. Not saying this guy's an asshole necessarily, but if someone wants to undermine company rules by thinking they don't apply, that can have a big impact on morale and culture and be much worse than losing a "star". People can argue that apple should stay remote, and maybe there's an argument they should have, but accepting they require employees to be in-person letting this guy leave was definitely the right move.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Advocating for remote work compensation makes someone an asshole? Company rules and culture last only as long as you can retain talent, and if you bring enough value, the rules don’t apply to you. Clearly Apple is concerned as they’ve postponed their return to office plans. https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-machine-learnin-1848942742 https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-mac...
  - dekhn 4y ago
    Ian (I used to work with him) is sort of the opposite of an asshole. If he did this (and made it public) it meant that he had already talked to everybody up to the SVP of his division he's the sort of person any major org would want, but he makes a better fit in an org that does academic research (google research, deepmind, microsoft, amazo, not apple).
  - _zzaw 4y ago
    Standing up for your quality of life and questioning stupid company policies isn’t being an “asshole” or a prima donna. More of us should be doing it, and more of us are. Apple’s arrogant attitudes regarding its employees were always going to have consequences, given the caliber of people they employ. A lot of us don’t like being forced to work in an office, in no small part because the people who are most vocal about wanting us there are often obnoxious, toxic coworkers who make it harder for us to do our jobs. I expect the companies who continue to be unreasonable about these quality-of-life issues will find themselves at a disadvantage when it comes to hiring and retaining talent. Good on him; hope to see more of this.
  - anamax 4y ago
    Didn't that ship sail with Urs Hölzle?

HellDunkel 4y ago

If a (ml) managing director publicly says he is not willing to „return to office“ is he really speaking as an individual? Or does he speak up in the name of his team? His team probably was tiny in terms of apple dimensions but surely of strategic importance. They probably could have easily made an exception in his case and for the whole team. I could imagine they did not talk much.

quitit 4y ago

He returned to Google which has a similar back to work policy as Apple (3 days per week in person/2 flexible). It’s pretty clear IG is just returning to where he is most comfortable; he has spent most of his career with Google. Tech reporting too often over states the importance of one individual, especially with Apple eg “jobs” “ive” “schiller” etc., but Apple is not a pristine white garage of 10 people tinkering in isolation. The narrative of over stating the importance of one departed individual is a journalism construct to support the oft retold click-bait of apple being forever a doomed company. It’s time to bring back the Apple death knell counter, because a new generation of readers haven’t realised it this: Bad Apple news gets the clicks, and these people are suckers for constantly falling for it.