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This makes many factually incorrect statements, over generalizations, and is filled with emotion. I don’t know where to start. Tim Berners-Lee doesn’t own the

This makes many factually incorrect statements, over generalizations, and is filled with emotion. I don’t know where to start. Tim Berners-Lee doesn’t own the term “web 3(.0)”. Miners/validators charge a fee. Any cloud provider also charges a fee. DIY isn’t free either. I’ll ignore DeFi because I know it doesn’t necessarily sit well with HN, but there are valid use cases for blockchain in Gaming. 10 years is a long time, yes. But there are a lot of things that need to be built, tested, and adopted. Blockchain moves slowly. So what? Comparing anything to the iPhone is a terrible argument. The iPhone is arguably the biggest success (design, marketing, need) of the last 25 years and comparing anything to it doesn’t tell us anything other than “yes, iPhone good”.

searchableguy 4y ago
> 10 years is a long time That period also excludes all the work and progress in phones it took to get there. > I’ll ignore DeFi because I know it doesn’t necessarily sit well with HN DeFi is revolutionary. The idea of programmable finance and bank which can be created by anyone (we have 12 year old engineers with complex defi financial products) is nothing short of eye watering. On top of it, all the primitives are composeable which makes risk stacking possible. That's capital efficient for the capital owner compared to tradfi. You can criticise the grifters in the space which are too many but what it enables is amazing to me.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > we have 12 year old engineers with complex defi financial products It means they are not complex. Honestly, none of the DeFi projects are (it's flash loans and currency speculation across the board). And none of them are banks.
nhinck2 4y ago
> but there are valid use cases for blockchain in Gaming Like?
- burnoot 4y ago
  Trading game assets (items) outside of the mechanics of a game. Loaning assets (items) to other players without the game developers building the loan functionality. Clan memberships that are recognised across different games.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Devs still have to build blockchain functionality. Which one of the hundreds if blockchains? And devs still have to build things like "ownership of item changed, reflect it in the game", "this guy is a member if a clan in game X, so has to be member of clan X(?) in this game" etc. The hand-wavy way crypto proponents approach this is maddening.
    - searchableguy 4y ago
      > Devs still have to build blockchain functionality. Which one of the hundreds if blockchains? No, you can bridge NFTs between chains. It's a solved problem. > devs still have to build things like "ownership of item changed, reflect it in the game No. They should query chain data directly. They need to setup an indexer and route any query through it. You can attach attributes and state to NFT which can be replicated automatically between chains when someone bridges.
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        > No, you can bridge NFTs between chains. Who is this "you"? > No. They should query chain data directly. They need to setup an indexer and route any query through it. Right. They "just have to query". They "just have to setup" something. > You can attach attributes and state to NFT which can be replicated automatically between chains when someone bridges. Who is this "you"? Who is this "someone"? Again, the hand-wavy way crypto proponents approach this is maddening. And of course, there are exactly zero examples of this working in real life.
    - burnoot 4y ago
      Yes, there will likely always need to be some work done on the dev side to enable any of those use cases. A lot of the tools/services to enable these and other uses are either being built or haven’t even been started yet, so for the moment the level of effort from individual teams is higher than it could be.
onion2k 4y ago
there are valid use cases for blockchain in Gaming If you mean the usual example of "you could buy a 3d model of a hat, and use it in all your favorite games" then you have no idea how 3d asset pipelines work and why this is never going to happen except maybe within the realm of a single publisher, and if that's the case there's no need for a blockchain. You could just store them on an account that's probably using Postgres in the background somewhere.
- m00dy 4y ago
  Check out https://worldofcrypto.io https://worldofcrypto.io, they are working on a gan based neural network to do a style transfer on your own nft.
  - onion2k 4y ago
    There's no need for a blockchain within one game. Blockchain, NFTs, and all related ideas are about sharing data between untrusted parties without a central authority. If you're in a single game there is automatically an authority. I'll be generous and suggest that World of Crypto is being built by some devs who are using NFTs as a hustle because they're trendy. There's nothing wrong with that. That's how you sell things in fashion. But it could easily be a rugpull scam...
    - m00dy 4y ago
      The value that is being generated not on centralised entities but on private keys.
      - Kbelicius 4y ago
        What does that even mean? What is the difference, to me as a user, between value being generated on centralised entities and private keys
- web4 4y ago
  or, you can buy a trading card for a game that embraces blockchain and decentralization. the media which is a PNG and JSON can be stored in ipfs , p2p hosted, and licensed with CC0. this is a niche .. but you can imagine some communities and players might enjoy owning assets that are not tied to a game company. the company can fold and the game go under, and the asset can still be repurposed for another game, or held as a collectible like we do physical trading cards and stamps. a probably simpler use case for blockchain in gaming is for a simple payment API and market mechanism .. easier to spin up a smart contract and escape payment processor fees and the ridiculous take-rates of Steam and Apple in-app purchases.
web4 4y ago
a lot of web3’s critical infrastructure like ipfs, TheGraph and Infura, scalable L2s, and zk proof tech is all far more recent and still in development so it will probably still be another few years before it matures i think

searchableguy 4y ago

> 10 years is a long time That period also excludes all the work and progress in phones it took to get there. > I’ll ignore DeFi because I know it doesn’t necessarily sit well with HN DeFi is revolutionary. The idea of programmable finance and bank which can be created by anyone (we have 12 year old engineers with complex defi financial products) is nothing short of eye watering. On top of it, all the primitives are composeable which makes risk stacking possible. That's capital efficient for the capital owner compared to tradfi. You can criticise the grifters in the space which are too many but what it enables is amazing to me.

dmitriid 4y ago
> we have 12 year old engineers with complex defi financial products It means they are not complex. Honestly, none of the DeFi projects are (it's flash loans and currency speculation across the board). And none of them are banks.

nhinck2 4y ago

> but there are valid use cases for blockchain in Gaming Like?

burnoot 4y ago
Trading game assets (items) outside of the mechanics of a game. Loaning assets (items) to other players without the game developers building the loan functionality. Clan memberships that are recognised across different games.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Devs still have to build blockchain functionality. Which one of the hundreds if blockchains? And devs still have to build things like "ownership of item changed, reflect it in the game", "this guy is a member if a clan in game X, so has to be member of clan X(?) in this game" etc. The hand-wavy way crypto proponents approach this is maddening.
  - searchableguy 4y ago
    > Devs still have to build blockchain functionality. Which one of the hundreds if blockchains? No, you can bridge NFTs between chains. It's a solved problem. > devs still have to build things like "ownership of item changed, reflect it in the game No. They should query chain data directly. They need to setup an indexer and route any query through it. You can attach attributes and state to NFT which can be replicated automatically between chains when someone bridges.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > No, you can bridge NFTs between chains. Who is this "you"? > No. They should query chain data directly. They need to setup an indexer and route any query through it. Right. They "just have to query". They "just have to setup" something. > You can attach attributes and state to NFT which can be replicated automatically between chains when someone bridges. Who is this "you"? Who is this "someone"? Again, the hand-wavy way crypto proponents approach this is maddening. And of course, there are exactly zero examples of this working in real life.
  - burnoot 4y ago
    Yes, there will likely always need to be some work done on the dev side to enable any of those use cases. A lot of the tools/services to enable these and other uses are either being built or haven’t even been started yet, so for the moment the level of effort from individual teams is higher than it could be.

onion2k 4y ago

there are valid use cases for blockchain in Gaming If you mean the usual example of "you could buy a 3d model of a hat, and use it in all your favorite games" then you have no idea how 3d asset pipelines work and why this is never going to happen except maybe within the realm of a single publisher, and if that's the case there's no need for a blockchain. You could just store them on an account that's probably using Postgres in the background somewhere.

m00dy 4y ago
Check out https://worldofcrypto.io https://worldofcrypto.io, they are working on a gan based neural network to do a style transfer on your own nft.
- onion2k 4y ago
  There's no need for a blockchain within one game. Blockchain, NFTs, and all related ideas are about sharing data between untrusted parties without a central authority. If you're in a single game there is automatically an authority. I'll be generous and suggest that World of Crypto is being built by some devs who are using NFTs as a hustle because they're trendy. There's nothing wrong with that. That's how you sell things in fashion. But it could easily be a rugpull scam...
  - m00dy 4y ago
    The value that is being generated not on centralised entities but on private keys.
    - Kbelicius 4y ago
      What does that even mean? What is the difference, to me as a user, between value being generated on centralised entities and private keys
web4 4y ago
or, you can buy a trading card for a game that embraces blockchain and decentralization. the media which is a PNG and JSON can be stored in ipfs , p2p hosted, and licensed with CC0. this is a niche .. but you can imagine some communities and players might enjoy owning assets that are not tied to a game company. the company can fold and the game go under, and the asset can still be repurposed for another game, or held as a collectible like we do physical trading cards and stamps. a probably simpler use case for blockchain in gaming is for a simple payment API and market mechanism .. easier to spin up a smart contract and escape payment processor fees and the ridiculous take-rates of Steam and Apple in-app purchases.

web4 4y ago

a lot of web3’s critical infrastructure like ipfs, TheGraph and Infura, scalable L2s, and zk proof tech is all far more recent and still in development so it will probably still be another few years before it matures i think