4 ms·

You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives. "After I

You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives. "After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story." "If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece." Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond." If it weren't true, you would imagine they would more strongly deny the event happened.

dekhn 4y ago
Thanks for pointing out that it was an employee, although in reality she was a contractee of the flight service. no, you cannot conclude that if people don't deny something strongly that it means something happened. I don't think he's even denying the event, but wouldn't classify it as "harassment". There are many ways to interpret what people say and do in public.
- hellomyguys 4y ago
  I'm free to conclude whatever I want. I'm not the court of law. You're clearly making your own conclusions as well.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    Even if you were the court of law, I think you'd understand that whipping out your genitals and propositioning sex constitutes sexual harassment.
    - hellomyguys 4y ago
      Yes, I agree. The person replying to me seems to want to debate that.
      - dekhn 4y ago
        No, I said there's no proof that happened. All of this is coming from a person who was a friend of the individual who made the settlement. This is hearsay; we can't verify it, nor can we (logically) conclude that it happened because SpaceX made a settlement (many companies settle, even if not guilty, to avoid bad PR from lawsuits). I actually literally have no idea what happened, and I don't particularly like Musk. I'm just pointing out some fairly obvious epistemological details about truth in the news.
mlindner 4y ago
> You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives. Well no duh, but if he was on the plane and he got served too much alcohol. I can see that happening.
- turtledove 4y ago
  And it would be sexual harassment at best? And it would be right to hold you to account... "I drank too much" does not excuse showing someone your dick and asking to buy sex from them.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Given he was already in a state of undress, it's completely unclear if he just turned over and the towel fell off. There is no indication of the "manner" in which it was done. And of course if he touched the woman and asked her to "do more" she's automatically going to assume all sorts of things, as would anyone. She was subsequently upset that she didn't get more time on the jet after reporting the incident as well, which just sounds weird. Why would she want to get back on the jet at all...
    - turtledove 4y ago
      Ok, last question first: because a job pays your bills, and maybe the job is ok and pays well as long as you don't get sexually harassed. She was effectively demoted through no fault of her own. "She asked not to be demoted, which is weird" is a nonsense take. And, "maybe the towel fell off when he turned over" is also weird. Typically, a masseuse would hold up a sheet while you turned over, and give you the time and space to do so and ask if you were covered before continuing the massage. I've had many massages, and accidental nudity would be pretty difficult. Second, when you are getting a massage, your arms are placed by your sides on the table so the masseuse can work them while they are relaxed. Touching or grabbing the masseuse would require you to take a really uncommon action. It's also unlikely to be accidental. It's also expected that you don't reach out and touch the masseuse... If you need their attention you use words. It's a monumental stretch to imagine this happening accidentally. Occam's razor suggests here that Musk crossed the line.

dekhn 4y ago

Thanks for pointing out that it was an employee, although in reality she was a contractee of the flight service. no, you cannot conclude that if people don't deny something strongly that it means something happened. I don't think he's even denying the event, but wouldn't classify it as "harassment". There are many ways to interpret what people say and do in public.

hellomyguys 4y ago
I'm free to conclude whatever I want. I'm not the court of law. You're clearly making your own conclusions as well.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Even if you were the court of law, I think you'd understand that whipping out your genitals and propositioning sex constitutes sexual harassment.
  - hellomyguys 4y ago
    Yes, I agree. The person replying to me seems to want to debate that.
    - dekhn 4y ago
      No, I said there's no proof that happened. All of this is coming from a person who was a friend of the individual who made the settlement. This is hearsay; we can't verify it, nor can we (logically) conclude that it happened because SpaceX made a settlement (many companies settle, even if not guilty, to avoid bad PR from lawsuits). I actually literally have no idea what happened, and I don't particularly like Musk. I'm just pointing out some fairly obvious epistemological details about truth in the news.

mlindner 4y ago

> You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives. Well no duh, but if he was on the plane and he got served too much alcohol. I can see that happening.

turtledove 4y ago
And it would be sexual harassment at best? And it would be right to hold you to account... "I drank too much" does not excuse showing someone your dick and asking to buy sex from them.
- mlindner 4y ago
  Given he was already in a state of undress, it's completely unclear if he just turned over and the towel fell off. There is no indication of the "manner" in which it was done. And of course if he touched the woman and asked her to "do more" she's automatically going to assume all sorts of things, as would anyone. She was subsequently upset that she didn't get more time on the jet after reporting the incident as well, which just sounds weird. Why would she want to get back on the jet at all...
  - turtledove 4y ago
    Ok, last question first: because a job pays your bills, and maybe the job is ok and pays well as long as you don't get sexually harassed. She was effectively demoted through no fault of her own. "She asked not to be demoted, which is weird" is a nonsense take. And, "maybe the towel fell off when he turned over" is also weird. Typically, a masseuse would hold up a sheet while you turned over, and give you the time and space to do so and ask if you were covered before continuing the massage. I've had many massages, and accidental nudity would be pretty difficult. Second, when you are getting a massage, your arms are placed by your sides on the table so the masseuse can work them while they are relaxed. Touching or grabbing the masseuse would require you to take a really uncommon action. It's also unlikely to be accidental. It's also expected that you don't reach out and touch the masseuse... If you need their attention you use words. It's a monumental stretch to imagine this happening accidentally. Occam's razor suggests here that Musk crossed the line.