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SpaceX Paid $250k to a Flight Attendant Who Accused Musk of Sexual Misconduct

87 points by coloneltcb 4y ago

throwaway29303 4y ago
- IdEntities 4y ago
  Elon's MAGA turn is not some heartfelt ideological evolution, it's just a shtick to get a new base of support and make himself look like the victim when TSLA's stock price implodes. Where I will somewhat agree with your comment is that it's clear the media has carried water for Musk for many years, and that imperative seems to have lapsed. Why it's happening now, I'm not sure.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    It's not nearly that deep. Progressives will buy his products because they're good for the environment. Pretty soon, they'll have other options, but production keeps increasing, so he'll need new customers. Now, he plays up the conspiracy theories of conservatives to get their business.
Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
- kccoder 4y ago
  Because it is about power. Specifically the power to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want, ideally with impunity.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hellomyguys 4y ago
"Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526961470562508802 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526961470562508802 "In the past I voted Democrat, because they were (mostly) the kindness party. But they have become the party of division & hate, so I can no longer support them and will vote Republican. Now, watch their dirty tricks campaign against me unfold … " https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526997132858822658 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526997132858822658 Interesting strategy of trying to get ahead of this..
- pstuart 4y ago
  But what if the allegations are true? Is Elon beyond reproach?
  - hellomyguys 4y ago
    I'm not implying they aren't true. Just pointing out Musk laying the groundwork to try and discredit whatever was coming.
    - pstuart 4y ago
      I deeply respect the achievements he's made but have lost any for him as a person.
      - wahnfrieden 4y ago
        Maybe you can find more respect for the contributions of his workers to those achievements, than he has as an anti-labor union buster employing illegal tactics
        pstuart 4y ago
        That's not a problem. Obviously the success is only possible with the workers who actually make stuff happen. I'm not a Musk fanboy but I recognize the power of someone with great intelligence and vision and is willing to bully to make it happen. Case in point: there's 3 space companies run by billionaires, but only one of them is successful. I think it's his driving force that makes the difference. It doesn't make him a good person, but it's evident that it is effective. As with Jobs, I can respect his achievements and not respect him.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dekhn 4y ago
this just seems like a lot of hearsay and indirect evidence, from a friend of the ostensibly affected individual. I mean, sure, SpaceX paid that, but it doesn't mean the event even happened, and even if it did... he propositioned her and she said no. There was no exchange of bodily fluids.
- hellomyguys 4y ago
  You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives. "After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story." "If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece." Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond." If it weren't true, you would imagine they would more strongly deny the event happened.
  - dekhn 4y ago
    Thanks for pointing out that it was an employee, although in reality she was a contractee of the flight service. no, you cannot conclude that if people don't deny something strongly that it means something happened. I don't think he's even denying the event, but wouldn't classify it as "harassment". There are many ways to interpret what people say and do in public.
    - hellomyguys 4y ago
      I'm free to conclude whatever I want. I'm not the court of law. You're clearly making your own conclusions as well.
      - encryptluks2 4y ago
        Even if you were the court of law, I think you'd understand that whipping out your genitals and propositioning sex constitutes sexual harassment.
encryptluks2 4y ago
I think it is obvious to most people that his recent statements was probably an attempt to get ahead of the story. I'm not going to make any judgement about whether it is true or not, but $250,000 is a lot of money for a false accusation.
- robswc 4y ago
  Realistically, what is the other option? Seems that would be just as expensive and risk public attention (even if its completely false).
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    He didn't even deny it when asked for comment, just said there is more to the story. I will give it time though before I make too many assumptions, but if he knew about this and then went and posted the comment about the left attacking him shortly after that isn't really the actions of someone who is innocent.
    - robswc 4y ago
      There's no way to know what really happened until we have actual proof. >After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story." Do we even know what Insider's question was or if there was more to the response? Ultimately, if this is all true that would be incredibly disheartening. I still feel it's convenient this comes up on the heels of him turning his back on certain political groups. He moved to Texas and has been complaining about leftists for awhile now. I'm not a fan of engaging in that stuff at all but I try to refrain from hating people for it, regardless of "side." I said the same exact thing when 10s of accusations came up against Biden the minute he started gaining traction in the primaries. Seems when these things are true they come more out of nowhere, i.e. Epstein, Weinstein and Cuomo. Ofc, not saying timing doesn't mean it isn't true. Just saying it would be far from the first convenient accusation against a public figure.
      - 4y ago
devops3 4y ago
logicalmonster 4y ago
A lot of people are saying that Musk is buying Twitter to get ahead of this story and control the narrative around it. That's a reasonable (albeit very unproven) hypothesis. I'd be interested to see if actual facts about this come out and to see if Musk is allowed to say anything about this. Anything is certainly possible and Musk should be condemned harshly for any proven bad behavior. (Personally I think he's just a fairly smart investor and needed cover for an overpriced TSLA stock heading towards a down economy so he wanted to cash out a bit while he still could) But I'd like to put being a celebrity billionaire into context. (this is not from the personal experience of being a celebrity billionaire, unfortunately) Pretty much every non-rich person in the sphere of a wealthy celebrity is hoping to financially benefit from that access. Some nicer people take the path of trying to be extremely loyal to the celebrity in hopes of getting access, jobs, and gifts: you sometimes read stories about wealthy peoples' employees who get extremely generous gifts from them. However, some sociopaths take the path of trying to maneuver themselves into falsely suing their way into getting a piece of that wealth. I'd bet that quite a few rich folks have secretly paid off some bad behaving employees who were willing to fabricate claims to just go away. This doesn't mean that the billionaire did anything wrong, it just wasn't worth the hassle to try and fight a particular claim at a particular time. This is just something that people should keep in mind when hearing about any claims about celebrities: they're surrounded by people who are tempted to take their one shot at a piece of that wealth.
- heartbreak 4y ago
  > A lot of people are saying that Musk is buying Twitter to get ahead of this story and control the narrative around it. That's a reasonable (albeit very unproven) hypothesis. I’m sorry but there is no world in which Musk spends $40b to control the narrative in a single sexual harassment story. Clearly it was only worth $250k to get an NDA from her in 2018. Musk buying Twitter has nothing to do with this. Musk’s tweets about incoming political attacks on the other hand likely do have something to do with it.
  - mzs 4y ago
    but if it's a pattern OTOH…
throw7 4y ago
Just being honest here: $250k doesn't seem like a lot to me to shut up and deal, but I can also see just getting on with life after a come on.
- Layke1123 4y ago
  You wouldn't take $250k? How much money do you make on a daily basis?
  - mseidl 4y ago
    Eleventy Jillion.
- mzs 4y ago
  first google result: >the majority of Charter Flight Attendant salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $49,000 (75th percentile) This happened in 2018, so she likely made less and $250k would have seemed like even more then than now - so yeah in her shoes I would have taken that deal too.
mhh__ 4y ago
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421325748158312458 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421325748158312458 "Tesla policy is never to give in to false claims, even if we would lose, and never to fight true claims, even if we would win." So this is either true or he's a liar (or just inconsistent...), make your own mind up
- juanani 4y ago
  This is SpaceX though not Tesla, has he given a similar statement for their policy?
cato_the_elder 4y ago
Yet another reminder that you should never pay blackmailers.
iamleppert 4y ago
This seems to match with his behavior and persona. Having worked in tech a long time, I can say that culture is always set from the top. I've worked in organizations where sexual harassment is tolerated; this is always because the CEO or founders regularly engage in it. We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies. If this wasn't the case, I would tend to side with Musk, but it's not so it adds a lot of credibility to this report, perhaps enough to tip the scale enough to put the burden of proof on Musk. If in fact it can be shown she was paid $250,000 (a lot of money for a flight attendant), it looks very bad for him. One of the things that I most hate about tech is the obsession and idolization over the founder, and how bad behavior by them is routinely tolerated. It always comes back to bite you in the end, and, at the end of the day, the founder would be nothing without their employees and engineers, who do all the hard work. With all the constant tweeting, public persona building, interviewing, is Musk really doing any work or adding any value to these companies? If he isn't actually involved in day to day operations, and all his value depends on his celebrity, he is in quite a difficult position -- not unlike a celebrity: one misstep and your entire career could be over. I do not envy his position. Smart people will only tolerate working for a chauvinist with an outsized ego for so long.
- rlt 4y ago
  > We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies. I don’t think this should be stated as fact without some references to back it up. I certainly hadn’t gotten this impression of Tesla or SpaceX.
  - shalmanese 4y ago
    FTA: > Two of his companies, however, have faced allegations of sexual harassment in the past. In December 2021, the same week he was named Time's Person of the Year, four women who worked at SpaceX spoke out about sexual harassment they said they faced at the company, where Musk is the CEO. One, Ashley Kosak, published an essay recounting being groped and touched inappropriately by male employees while she was an intern. Three others — one of whom said she was bound by a non-disclosure agreement — recounted similar treatment to the New York Times. > In response to the reports, SpaceX president and chief operating officer Gwynne Shotwell sent a company-wide email saying that "timely reporting of harassment is key to our maintaining SpaceX as a great place to work; we can't fix what we don't know," the Times reported. She added that SpaceX will "rigorously investigate all harassment or discrimination claims and take rapid and appropriate action when we find our policy is violated." > And at least six women have sued Tesla, where Musk is the CEO, alleging sexual harassment at a Tesla factory. Men at the factory ogled women and remarked on their clothes, the complaints said, leading some women to wear baggy outfits and use stacks of boxes to obstruct the views of leering co-workers. Some of the women claimed they were retaliated against when they came forward.

87 points by coloneltcb 4y ago

throwaway29303 4y ago

IdEntities 4y ago
Elon's MAGA turn is not some heartfelt ideological evolution, it's just a shtick to get a new base of support and make himself look like the victim when TSLA's stock price implodes. Where I will somewhat agree with your comment is that it's clear the media has carried water for Musk for many years, and that imperative seems to have lapsed. Why it's happening now, I'm not sure.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  It's not nearly that deep. Progressives will buy his products because they're good for the environment. Pretty soon, they'll have other options, but production keeps increasing, so he'll need new customers. Now, he plays up the conspiracy theories of conservatives to get their business.

Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago

kccoder 4y ago
Because it is about power. Specifically the power to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want, ideally with impunity.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

hellomyguys 4y ago

"Political attacks on me will escalate dramatically in coming months" https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526961470562508802 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526961470562508802 "In the past I voted Democrat, because they were (mostly) the kindness party. But they have become the party of division & hate, so I can no longer support them and will vote Republican. Now, watch their dirty tricks campaign against me unfold … " https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526997132858822658 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526997132858822658 Interesting strategy of trying to get ahead of this..

pstuart 4y ago
But what if the allegations are true? Is Elon beyond reproach?
- hellomyguys 4y ago
  I'm not implying they aren't true. Just pointing out Musk laying the groundwork to try and discredit whatever was coming.
  - pstuart 4y ago
    I deeply respect the achievements he's made but have lost any for him as a person.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      Maybe you can find more respect for the contributions of his workers to those achievements, than he has as an anti-labor union buster employing illegal tactics
      - pstuart 4y ago
        That's not a problem. Obviously the success is only possible with the workers who actually make stuff happen. I'm not a Musk fanboy but I recognize the power of someone with great intelligence and vision and is willing to bully to make it happen. Case in point: there's 3 space companies run by billionaires, but only one of them is successful. I think it's his driving force that makes the difference. It doesn't make him a good person, but it's evident that it is effective. As with Jobs, I can respect his achievements and not respect him.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dekhn 4y ago

this just seems like a lot of hearsay and indirect evidence, from a friend of the ostensibly affected individual. I mean, sure, SpaceX paid that, but it doesn't mean the event even happened, and even if it did... he propositioned her and she said no. There was no exchange of bodily fluids.

hellomyguys 4y ago
You usually don't proposition your employees, especially if you are a CEO and the context is during a massage that is an employee perk for executives. "After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story." "If I were inclined to engage in sexual harassment, this is unlikely to be the first time in my entire 30-year career that it comes to light," he wrote, calling the story a "politically motivated hit piece." Insider extended the deadline and reiterated the offer to Musk to comment on the claims. He did not respond." If it weren't true, you would imagine they would more strongly deny the event happened.
- dekhn 4y ago
  Thanks for pointing out that it was an employee, although in reality she was a contractee of the flight service. no, you cannot conclude that if people don't deny something strongly that it means something happened. I don't think he's even denying the event, but wouldn't classify it as "harassment". There are many ways to interpret what people say and do in public.
  - hellomyguys 4y ago
    I'm free to conclude whatever I want. I'm not the court of law. You're clearly making your own conclusions as well.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      Even if you were the court of law, I think you'd understand that whipping out your genitals and propositioning sex constitutes sexual harassment.

encryptluks2 4y ago

I think it is obvious to most people that his recent statements was probably an attempt to get ahead of the story. I'm not going to make any judgement about whether it is true or not, but $250,000 is a lot of money for a false accusation.

robswc 4y ago
Realistically, what is the other option? Seems that would be just as expensive and risk public attention (even if its completely false).
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  He didn't even deny it when asked for comment, just said there is more to the story. I will give it time though before I make too many assumptions, but if he knew about this and then went and posted the comment about the left attacking him shortly after that isn't really the actions of someone who is innocent.
  - robswc 4y ago
    There's no way to know what really happened until we have actual proof. >After Insider contacted Musk for comment, he emailed to ask for more time to respond and said there is "a lot more to this story." Do we even know what Insider's question was or if there was more to the response? Ultimately, if this is all true that would be incredibly disheartening. I still feel it's convenient this comes up on the heels of him turning his back on certain political groups. He moved to Texas and has been complaining about leftists for awhile now. I'm not a fan of engaging in that stuff at all but I try to refrain from hating people for it, regardless of "side." I said the same exact thing when 10s of accusations came up against Biden the minute he started gaining traction in the primaries. Seems when these things are true they come more out of nowhere, i.e. Epstein, Weinstein and Cuomo. Ofc, not saying timing doesn't mean it isn't true. Just saying it would be far from the first convenient accusation against a public figure.
    - 4y ago

devops3 4y ago

logicalmonster 4y ago

A lot of people are saying that Musk is buying Twitter to get ahead of this story and control the narrative around it. That's a reasonable (albeit very unproven) hypothesis. I'd be interested to see if actual facts about this come out and to see if Musk is allowed to say anything about this. Anything is certainly possible and Musk should be condemned harshly for any proven bad behavior. (Personally I think he's just a fairly smart investor and needed cover for an overpriced TSLA stock heading towards a down economy so he wanted to cash out a bit while he still could) But I'd like to put being a celebrity billionaire into context. (this is not from the personal experience of being a celebrity billionaire, unfortunately) Pretty much every non-rich person in the sphere of a wealthy celebrity is hoping to financially benefit from that access. Some nicer people take the path of trying to be extremely loyal to the celebrity in hopes of getting access, jobs, and gifts: you sometimes read stories about wealthy peoples' employees who get extremely generous gifts from them. However, some sociopaths take the path of trying to maneuver themselves into falsely suing their way into getting a piece of that wealth. I'd bet that quite a few rich folks have secretly paid off some bad behaving employees who were willing to fabricate claims to just go away. This doesn't mean that the billionaire did anything wrong, it just wasn't worth the hassle to try and fight a particular claim at a particular time. This is just something that people should keep in mind when hearing about any claims about celebrities: they're surrounded by people who are tempted to take their one shot at a piece of that wealth.

heartbreak 4y ago
> A lot of people are saying that Musk is buying Twitter to get ahead of this story and control the narrative around it. That's a reasonable (albeit very unproven) hypothesis. I’m sorry but there is no world in which Musk spends $40b to control the narrative in a single sexual harassment story. Clearly it was only worth $250k to get an NDA from her in 2018. Musk buying Twitter has nothing to do with this. Musk’s tweets about incoming political attacks on the other hand likely do have something to do with it.
- mzs 4y ago
  but if it's a pattern OTOH…

throw7 4y ago

Just being honest here: $250k doesn't seem like a lot to me to shut up and deal, but I can also see just getting on with life after a come on.

Layke1123 4y ago
You wouldn't take $250k? How much money do you make on a daily basis?
- mseidl 4y ago
  Eleventy Jillion.
mzs 4y ago
first google result: >the majority of Charter Flight Attendant salaries currently range between $30,500 (25th percentile) to $49,000 (75th percentile) This happened in 2018, so she likely made less and $250k would have seemed like even more then than now - so yeah in her shoes I would have taken that deal too.

mhh__ 4y ago

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421325748158312458 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1421325748158312458 "Tesla policy is never to give in to false claims, even if we would lose, and never to fight true claims, even if we would win." So this is either true or he's a liar (or just inconsistent...), make your own mind up

juanani 4y ago
This is SpaceX though not Tesla, has he given a similar statement for their policy?

cato_the_elder 4y ago

Yet another reminder that you should never pay blackmailers.

iamleppert 4y ago

This seems to match with his behavior and persona. Having worked in tech a long time, I can say that culture is always set from the top. I've worked in organizations where sexual harassment is tolerated; this is always because the CEO or founders regularly engage in it. We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies. If this wasn't the case, I would tend to side with Musk, but it's not so it adds a lot of credibility to this report, perhaps enough to tip the scale enough to put the burden of proof on Musk. If in fact it can be shown she was paid $250,000 (a lot of money for a flight attendant), it looks very bad for him. One of the things that I most hate about tech is the obsession and idolization over the founder, and how bad behavior by them is routinely tolerated. It always comes back to bite you in the end, and, at the end of the day, the founder would be nothing without their employees and engineers, who do all the hard work. With all the constant tweeting, public persona building, interviewing, is Musk really doing any work or adding any value to these companies? If he isn't actually involved in day to day operations, and all his value depends on his celebrity, he is in quite a difficult position -- not unlike a celebrity: one misstep and your entire career could be over. I do not envy his position. Smart people will only tolerate working for a chauvinist with an outsized ego for so long.

rlt 4y ago
> We all know how rampant sexual harassment and misconduct is at Musk-owned and operated companies. I don’t think this should be stated as fact without some references to back it up. I certainly hadn’t gotten this impression of Tesla or SpaceX.
- shalmanese 4y ago
  FTA: > Two of his companies, however, have faced allegations of sexual harassment in the past. In December 2021, the same week he was named Time's Person of the Year, four women who worked at SpaceX spoke out about sexual harassment they said they faced at the company, where Musk is the CEO. One, Ashley Kosak, published an essay recounting being groped and touched inappropriately by male employees while she was an intern. Three others — one of whom said she was bound by a non-disclosure agreement — recounted similar treatment to the New York Times. > In response to the reports, SpaceX president and chief operating officer Gwynne Shotwell sent a company-wide email saying that "timely reporting of harassment is key to our maintaining SpaceX as a great place to work; we can't fix what we don't know," the Times reported. She added that SpaceX will "rigorously investigate all harassment or discrimination claims and take rapid and appropriate action when we find our policy is violated." > And at least six women have sued Tesla, where Musk is the CEO, alleging sexual harassment at a Tesla factory. Men at the factory ogled women and remarked on their clothes, the complaints said, leading some women to wear baggy outfits and use stacks of boxes to obstruct the views of leering co-workers. Some of the women claimed they were retaliated against when they came forward.