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We should stop growing corn for ethanol since it's worse for the climate than gasoline[1] and instead use all that land and machinery to grow wheat instead. 1.

We should stop growing corn for ethanol since it's worse for the climate than gasoline[1] and instead use all that land and machinery to grow wheat instead. 1. https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-e...

shadowgovt 4y ago
How fungible are wheat and corn crops?
- jeremyjh 4y ago
  This is like asking how fungible are calories. People with the means to mill and cook with wheat flour can probably manage with corn too if the alternative is starvation.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    I don't mean on the consumption side. I mean on the production side. Do they grow in the same soil? Do they take the same nutrients? Do they have the same water / sunlight / temperature band tolerances? Looks like that rotation is pretty common but there are some details to concern oneself with. https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/considerations-when-rotating-wheat-behind-corn.html https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/considerations-whe...
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      Corn is a whole lot more productive, if you can grow it, you do. Wheat grows in places you can't grow corn.
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      Much of it boils down to water and/or irrigation. Maize (corn) likes wetter, wheat can stand dryer. In the US the corn belt starts in Ohio and includes eastern Nebraska, wheat is grown largely on the far western plains. Wheat is also a viable winter crop --- fall planting / spring harvest for "winter wheat". That typically means 2 crops a year (winter + summer), and possibly more. Rice is the third staple crop, though it wants a lot of water, and tends to be grown in subtropical climates as with China and India. Other substitutes include barley, oats, millet, etc., though those are far less prevelant than wheat & maize.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    I had read somewhere that the varieties of corn grown for ethanol are not the same as the varieties grown for food but can't find the article now.
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      There are special varieties of corn you can grow for ethanol, but you don't have to, the ethanol plants do not require it. There are required varieties and practices for growing corn intended for direct human consumption (i.e. making cornmeal or breakfast cereal). Most corn though goes to animal feed, industrial uses (corn starch, syrup, etc), or export. (source: am a 5th generation corn farmer)
      - ncpa-cpl 4y ago
        Hi! Just wanted to ask, are the cultivars or varieties for corn for human food, ethanol and corn for cattle feed different?
        colechristensen 4y ago
        Each seed company provides a large number of options, some of them for specific uses, some of them not so much. The main differences are days to maturity, resistances to a variety of things, and nutrition content.
ARandomerDude 4y ago
Won't happen unless the fear of food shortage becomes an actual food shortage. Ethanol subsidies let farmers already invested in corn grow more corn than they might otherwise sell for food, and politicians get to say they're doing something for renewable energy. As with so many other things in politics, the good of society isn't the driving factor. Money and talking points are king.
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  Given the outsized impact the Iowa Caucuses have in presidential primaries, being pro-corn and ethanol is a necessity for any viable candidate.
  - sosull 4y ago
    Aren't the Iowa Caucus' days numbered? They've been a complete disaster the last few cycles – it seems to take days/weeks to determine a winner. Their last competently-run caucus was in 2008.
colechristensen 4y ago
Corn produces 4-6 times the calories per acre as wheat, not to mention farmers and distribution networks would have to spend a whole lot to switch. Many people are suggesting eating less meat to help potential food shortages, switching corn to wheat actually loses about as much food as feeding corn to cattle. (i.e. a cornfield switched to wheat and a cornfield fed to cattle would result in a similar number of calories) We indeed should stop producing ethanol, but plenty of hungry people around the world could be just as happy eating corn as wheat.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  I think it’s more like we grow wheat where corn won’t grow well. Saskatchewan isn’t going to support a big corn crop, but wheat, pulses and oats do very well.

shadowgovt 4y ago

How fungible are wheat and corn crops?

jeremyjh 4y ago
This is like asking how fungible are calories. People with the means to mill and cook with wheat flour can probably manage with corn too if the alternative is starvation.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  I don't mean on the consumption side. I mean on the production side. Do they grow in the same soil? Do they take the same nutrients? Do they have the same water / sunlight / temperature band tolerances? Looks like that rotation is pretty common but there are some details to concern oneself with. https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/considerations-when-rotating-wheat-behind-corn.html https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/considerations-whe...
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Corn is a whole lot more productive, if you can grow it, you do. Wheat grows in places you can't grow corn.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Much of it boils down to water and/or irrigation. Maize (corn) likes wetter, wheat can stand dryer. In the US the corn belt starts in Ohio and includes eastern Nebraska, wheat is grown largely on the far western plains. Wheat is also a viable winter crop --- fall planting / spring harvest for "winter wheat". That typically means 2 crops a year (winter + summer), and possibly more. Rice is the third staple crop, though it wants a lot of water, and tends to be grown in subtropical climates as with China and India. Other substitutes include barley, oats, millet, etc., though those are far less prevelant than wheat & maize.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- LegitShady 4y ago
  I had read somewhere that the varieties of corn grown for ethanol are not the same as the varieties grown for food but can't find the article now.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    There are special varieties of corn you can grow for ethanol, but you don't have to, the ethanol plants do not require it. There are required varieties and practices for growing corn intended for direct human consumption (i.e. making cornmeal or breakfast cereal). Most corn though goes to animal feed, industrial uses (corn starch, syrup, etc), or export. (source: am a 5th generation corn farmer)
    - ncpa-cpl 4y ago
      Hi! Just wanted to ask, are the cultivars or varieties for corn for human food, ethanol and corn for cattle feed different?
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        Each seed company provides a large number of options, some of them for specific uses, some of them not so much. The main differences are days to maturity, resistances to a variety of things, and nutrition content.

ARandomerDude 4y ago

Won't happen unless the fear of food shortage becomes an actual food shortage. Ethanol subsidies let farmers already invested in corn grow more corn than they might otherwise sell for food, and politicians get to say they're doing something for renewable energy. As with so many other things in politics, the good of society isn't the driving factor. Money and talking points are king.

BitwiseFool 4y ago
Given the outsized impact the Iowa Caucuses have in presidential primaries, being pro-corn and ethanol is a necessity for any viable candidate.
- sosull 4y ago
  Aren't the Iowa Caucus' days numbered? They've been a complete disaster the last few cycles – it seems to take days/weeks to determine a winner. Their last competently-run caucus was in 2008.

colechristensen 4y ago

Corn produces 4-6 times the calories per acre as wheat, not to mention farmers and distribution networks would have to spend a whole lot to switch. Many people are suggesting eating less meat to help potential food shortages, switching corn to wheat actually loses about as much food as feeding corn to cattle. (i.e. a cornfield switched to wheat and a cornfield fed to cattle would result in a similar number of calories) We indeed should stop producing ethanol, but plenty of hungry people around the world could be just as happy eating corn as wheat.

Scoundreller 4y ago
I think it’s more like we grow wheat where corn won’t grow well. Saskatchewan isn’t going to support a big corn crop, but wheat, pulses and oats do very well.