5 ms·

Same. Everytime I get excited about Framework, Syste7m6, etc... and then get sad. I fully understand I'm a vanishing minority, But trackpoint is such a product

Same. Everytime I get excited about Framework, Syste7m6, etc... and then get sad. I fully understand I'm a vanishing minority, But trackpoint is such a productivity booster for me, and makes such amazing use of space in a laptop format, that it's a must-have (and again, I fully understand that those who don't use Trackpoint will have no comprehension of what am I going on about; I'm a grouchy quirky old man :). Then there's other little things that may or may not be trackpad related - small function keys, lack of standard home/end/insert/del/pgup/pgdown cluster, and the collapsed arrows which I don't even understand - you have the room, it's right there, nothing is using it... why is everybody making up and down arrows functionally unusable (I want to blame Apple, but as Obi Wan said - who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool that follows :)

apricot 4y ago
> collapsed arrows Yes. Who ever thought making up and down arrow keys so small was a good idea? They are high usage keys, and every time I'm on a laptop keyboard like that, I cringe whenever I use the arrow keys. In fact, the keyboard is the first thing I look at when I'm in the market for a laptop. Small arrow keys = pass, I won't even look at the specs or price.
kwertyoowiyop 4y ago
It’s almost worth getting a “gamer laptop” just to get full-sized up/down arrow keys.
csdvrx 4y ago
> the collapsed arrows which I don't even understand - you have the room, it's right there, nothing is using it... why is everybody making up and down arrows functionally unusable (I want to blame Apple, but as Obi Wan said - who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool that follows :) This so much!! I miss PageUp and PageDown there so much I refuse to buy anything but thinkpads right now. The last alternative brand was Dell, which adopted the stupidly huge Left and Right arrows, and that's even seen on customer line Lenovos now :(
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  HPs still have dedicated pgup / home /etc in a column, to the right of backspace / enter / etc. But they've also adopted the stupid arrow cluster you describe.
xur17 4y ago
I used to love my trackpoint, and swore by it, but I was unable to get my mouse to go fast enough on my latest X1 carbon, so I've sadly stopped using it..
- dorfsmay 4y ago
  How do you use your mouse in a car, on a plane, on the couch?
  - xur17 4y ago
    I mistyped - meant trackpoint not mouse. The maximum trackpoint speed on ubuntu is waay to slow, so I gave up on it.
acomjean 4y ago
When I was at IBM I had a mouse with a trackpoint for scrolling. It was pretty great. I miss being able to move and scroll at variable speeds. https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=120 https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=12... and a paper: https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/a/pdf/Zhai%20scrolling.pdf https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/a/pdf/Zhai%20scro...
- the_pwner224 4y ago
  It's not the same, but the Logitech MX Master is basically the current version of this. It has two scrollwheels, one for vertical and one for horizontal. They have some interesting tech in them. When moved slowly they click with detents, like normal scrollwheels. But when you move the wheels more quickly they "unlock" to spin freely, you can scroll at a pretty high speed and with good accuracy.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    Do the scroll wheels have "weight" to them? In other words, can you give it a good spin and let it keep spinning on its own momentum?
    - the_pwner224 4y ago
      Yep, the scrollwheels are metal so they have some heft and they do keep spinning. I haven't used the MX Master, only very briefly tested a display unit at a store, but I do believe that it spun for a while. So I'd check a video review first if you're thinking of buying one. I personally use their G(aming) series mice with their older manual, mechanical mechanism instead of the new electromagnetic one in the MX Master. The G mice spin for a while... 15 seconds after a solid flick.
    - sobjornstad 4y ago
      I just took a stopwatch to mine and it spun for 10 seconds. In real life you would give it another whirl after a couple of seconds because it starts to slow down, but the short answer is clearly yes.
Melatonic 4y ago
Trackpoint really is damn nice. I also find it hilarious when I disable the trackpad in the bios to avoid any accidental brushes and then someone else tries to use my laptop - its like watching a deer try to walk for the first time!
- hgomersall 4y ago
  Same here, though I have a key combination (ctrl-space) to toggle the trackpad.
- cptnapalm 4y ago
  You can disable the trackpad in the BIOS? A whole new, better world has opened up to me! I hate trackpads.
bigpeopleareold 4y ago
I taught myself just last year to use the trackpoint because I was curious. I turned it off at the BIOS, etc. just to make me use it exclusively. Once I got over the hump, I was surprised. I don't want keyboards anymore without it. I developed a strong muscle memory for it over the year. I'm a grouchy quirky old man, but when it comes to trackpoints, I am new to this quirk :D
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  Is this on a thinkpad? My HP EliteBook has a track point and I haven't found any config that makes it usable. The tracking is either way too quick or way too slow. And the acceleration curve is either very steep or non-existent. I've tried it on both Windows and Linux. I realize I'm not used to it, in the beginning I used to have a hard time with mice, too, so maybe it's just a question of habit. For the moment, the only thing it does is leave a round trace on my screen whenever I close it...
  - pmlnr 4y ago
    The HP's have 2 keys, not 3. The middle is the one you push to use the trackpoint to scroll with. Hp simply crippled it
    - opan 4y ago
      There are some models like the EliteBook 8770W that have the middle mouse button.
  - tie_ 4y ago
    Totally understandable. I'm a trackpoint junkie, but I also could not get to using it on an HP laptop from work. It felt completely gimped (and yes, having just 2 buttons was probably a part of it).
    - bigpeopleareold 4y ago
      I would die a little inside (ok, maybe that's dramatic :D ) if I was presented a trackpoint-like device but didn't work properly. I had that once - an X1 Carbon 5th gen actually I was using temporarily, struggling to make that useful, because it was too tight (I feel like post-*30 models, you need to break them in, a lesson that I eventually learned) and it would float a lot. One nice thing about many used ThinkPads at least: trackpoints are usually the one component that are brand new on the device :D

apricot 4y ago

> collapsed arrows Yes. Who ever thought making up and down arrow keys so small was a good idea? They are high usage keys, and every time I'm on a laptop keyboard like that, I cringe whenever I use the arrow keys. In fact, the keyboard is the first thing I look at when I'm in the market for a laptop. Small arrow keys = pass, I won't even look at the specs or price.

kwertyoowiyop 4y ago

It’s almost worth getting a “gamer laptop” just to get full-sized up/down arrow keys.

csdvrx 4y ago

> the collapsed arrows which I don't even understand - you have the room, it's right there, nothing is using it... why is everybody making up and down arrows functionally unusable (I want to blame Apple, but as Obi Wan said - who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool that follows :) This so much!! I miss PageUp and PageDown there so much I refuse to buy anything but thinkpads right now. The last alternative brand was Dell, which adopted the stupidly huge Left and Right arrows, and that's even seen on customer line Lenovos now :(

vladvasiliu 4y ago
HPs still have dedicated pgup / home /etc in a column, to the right of backspace / enter / etc. But they've also adopted the stupid arrow cluster you describe.

xur17 4y ago

I used to love my trackpoint, and swore by it, but I was unable to get my mouse to go fast enough on my latest X1 carbon, so I've sadly stopped using it..

dorfsmay 4y ago
How do you use your mouse in a car, on a plane, on the couch?
- xur17 4y ago
  I mistyped - meant trackpoint not mouse. The maximum trackpoint speed on ubuntu is waay to slow, so I gave up on it.

acomjean 4y ago

When I was at IBM I had a mouse with a trackpoint for scrolling. It was pretty great. I miss being able to move and scroll at variable speeds. https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=120 https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/detail.aspx?id=12... and a paper: https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/a/pdf/Zhai%20scrolling.pdf https://www.microsoft.com/buxtoncollection/a/pdf/Zhai%20scro...

the_pwner224 4y ago
It's not the same, but the Logitech MX Master is basically the current version of this. It has two scrollwheels, one for vertical and one for horizontal. They have some interesting tech in them. When moved slowly they click with detents, like normal scrollwheels. But when you move the wheels more quickly they "unlock" to spin freely, you can scroll at a pretty high speed and with good accuracy.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Do the scroll wheels have "weight" to them? In other words, can you give it a good spin and let it keep spinning on its own momentum?
  - the_pwner224 4y ago
    Yep, the scrollwheels are metal so they have some heft and they do keep spinning. I haven't used the MX Master, only very briefly tested a display unit at a store, but I do believe that it spun for a while. So I'd check a video review first if you're thinking of buying one. I personally use their G(aming) series mice with their older manual, mechanical mechanism instead of the new electromagnetic one in the MX Master. The G mice spin for a while... 15 seconds after a solid flick.
  - sobjornstad 4y ago
    I just took a stopwatch to mine and it spun for 10 seconds. In real life you would give it another whirl after a couple of seconds because it starts to slow down, but the short answer is clearly yes.

Melatonic 4y ago

Trackpoint really is damn nice. I also find it hilarious when I disable the trackpad in the bios to avoid any accidental brushes and then someone else tries to use my laptop - its like watching a deer try to walk for the first time!

hgomersall 4y ago
Same here, though I have a key combination (ctrl-space) to toggle the trackpad.
cptnapalm 4y ago
You can disable the trackpad in the BIOS? A whole new, better world has opened up to me! I hate trackpads.

bigpeopleareold 4y ago

I taught myself just last year to use the trackpoint because I was curious. I turned it off at the BIOS, etc. just to make me use it exclusively. Once I got over the hump, I was surprised. I don't want keyboards anymore without it. I developed a strong muscle memory for it over the year. I'm a grouchy quirky old man, but when it comes to trackpoints, I am new to this quirk :D

vladvasiliu 4y ago
Is this on a thinkpad? My HP EliteBook has a track point and I haven't found any config that makes it usable. The tracking is either way too quick or way too slow. And the acceleration curve is either very steep or non-existent. I've tried it on both Windows and Linux. I realize I'm not used to it, in the beginning I used to have a hard time with mice, too, so maybe it's just a question of habit. For the moment, the only thing it does is leave a round trace on my screen whenever I close it...
- pmlnr 4y ago
  The HP's have 2 keys, not 3. The middle is the one you push to use the trackpoint to scroll with. Hp simply crippled it
  - opan 4y ago
    There are some models like the EliteBook 8770W that have the middle mouse button.
- tie_ 4y ago
  Totally understandable. I'm a trackpoint junkie, but I also could not get to using it on an HP laptop from work. It felt completely gimped (and yes, having just 2 buttons was probably a part of it).
  - bigpeopleareold 4y ago
    I would die a little inside (ok, maybe that's dramatic :D ) if I was presented a trackpoint-like device but didn't work properly. I had that once - an X1 Carbon 5th gen actually I was using temporarily, struggling to make that useful, because it was too tight (I feel like post-*30 models, you need to break them in, a lesson that I eventually learned) and it would float a lot. One nice thing about many used ThinkPads at least: trackpoints are usually the one component that are brand new on the device :D