4 ms·

I deep dived into chess several months ago, probably on the back of that netflix series (Queen's gambit?). Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a me

I deep dived into chess several months ago, probably on the back of that netflix series (Queen's gambit?). Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make, and if you make one wrong move you get systematically beaten. After you break out, then fine, then there is chess. This just killed it for me: the fact it's a memorisation exercise. I'd rather remember less useless facts if I'm rote doing that. The chess puzzles are fun, the new variations are fun, but the original game, just pointless.

stnmtn 4y ago
The opening is in no way like that until you get to extremely high-level high-skill games, which will take years if not a decade Until then, all you have to do is understand a few basic opening goals; and you're good to go. You don't have to memorize 20 moves deep of every opening if you are 800-1900 ELO, that's just silly and completely wrong.
sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
I don't quite know what you mean by "chess nowadays". It's always been the case that the players who make the best moves win more. And it's always been the case that memorization is a part of making good moves. Nothing qualitatively changed nowadays, it's always been true. What has changed quantitatively is that the quality of the average player is going up over the centuries, and memorization is part of that. So basically, what you said is equivalent to "with the amount of effort I'm willing to put in, I'm in a low percentile nowadays". Well, yes. And that's a good thing.
oldstrangers 4y ago
>Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make Not even remotely true. I'm 2000+ rated on chess.com and I can't tell you the first 6+ moves of any single opening.
slothtrop 4y ago
You could try Go instead. But it won't be any easier despite having (arguably) less to memorize.
- platz 4y ago
  have you ever heard of joseki
  - slothtrop 4y ago
    looks intimidating
tarentel 4y ago
This isn't even remotely true unless you're playing at the highest levels of chess. I'm a fairly highly rated player on chess.com and I only know the first few moves of a handful of openings. I end up playing the book moves a lot but that's because I've played so many games and practiced so much that it's pretty intuitive at this point. I've never played 20 book moves, ever, in any of my 1000s of games.
slothtrop 4y ago
I think whether or not you're right about memorizing openings as others dispute, I suspect you do ultimately memorize lots of patterns. Usually it's done through sheer practice, but if you dig enough, someone has probably given a name to all sorts of situations and tactics faced. What I think you're touching on with your gripe is that there isn't as much room for flexibility in chess. At high levels, the first to screw up loses. At low levels, you just don't recognize each other's screw-ups and vulnerabilities. You recognize them probably from experience more than anything. That still qualifies as 'memorization' to me, but you just can't get that from a book, in the end. To me it makes chess appear stiff and uncreative. Now, grant: with competitive play, lots of mind games go this way. If you have time to reflect and have expert-level knowledge, there are probably a narrow range of correct plays. It's difficult to allow for intuition.
adamnew123456 4y ago
You might find Chess960 interesting then. The starting position is randomized, with enough variations that memorizing an opening book no longer really helps. You have to start evaluating the board from move 1 in the same way that you do 20 moves later.

stnmtn 4y ago

The opening is in no way like that until you get to extremely high-level high-skill games, which will take years if not a decade Until then, all you have to do is understand a few basic opening goals; and you're good to go. You don't have to memorize 20 moves deep of every opening if you are 800-1900 ELO, that's just silly and completely wrong.

sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago

I don't quite know what you mean by "chess nowadays". It's always been the case that the players who make the best moves win more. And it's always been the case that memorization is a part of making good moves. Nothing qualitatively changed nowadays, it's always been true. What has changed quantitatively is that the quality of the average player is going up over the centuries, and memorization is part of that. So basically, what you said is equivalent to "with the amount of effort I'm willing to put in, I'm in a low percentile nowadays". Well, yes. And that's a good thing.

oldstrangers 4y ago

>Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make Not even remotely true. I'm 2000+ rated on chess.com and I can't tell you the first 6+ moves of any single opening.

slothtrop 4y ago

You could try Go instead. But it won't be any easier despite having (arguably) less to memorize.

platz 4y ago
have you ever heard of joseki
- slothtrop 4y ago
  looks intimidating

tarentel 4y ago

This isn't even remotely true unless you're playing at the highest levels of chess. I'm a fairly highly rated player on chess.com and I only know the first few moves of a handful of openings. I end up playing the book moves a lot but that's because I've played so many games and practiced so much that it's pretty intuitive at this point. I've never played 20 book moves, ever, in any of my 1000s of games.

slothtrop 4y ago

I think whether or not you're right about memorizing openings as others dispute, I suspect you do ultimately memorize lots of patterns. Usually it's done through sheer practice, but if you dig enough, someone has probably given a name to all sorts of situations and tactics faced. What I think you're touching on with your gripe is that there isn't as much room for flexibility in chess. At high levels, the first to screw up loses. At low levels, you just don't recognize each other's screw-ups and vulnerabilities. You recognize them probably from experience more than anything. That still qualifies as 'memorization' to me, but you just can't get that from a book, in the end. To me it makes chess appear stiff and uncreative. Now, grant: with competitive play, lots of mind games go this way. If you have time to reflect and have expert-level knowledge, there are probably a narrow range of correct plays. It's difficult to allow for intuition.

adamnew123456 4y ago

You might find Chess960 interesting then. The starting position is randomized, with enough variations that memorizing an opening book no longer really helps. You have to start evaluating the board from move 1 in the same way that you do 20 moves later.