7 ms·

Learning Chess at 40 (2016)

119 points by sebg 4y ago

thepoet 4y ago
I too started learning chess at the beginning of this pandemic when I turned 29. While I knew how the pieces moved as a kid, I was unaware of rules such as promotion, pawns moving two squares in the beginning, en passant etc. When I started I was 900 blitz on chess.com. I moved to ~1750 on Chess.com blitz and ~2000 on lichess blitz. I assume I would be higher in rapid if I played it as much, probably due to less competition in it online. I learned a single opening with white (and probably the most hated - London system), and one with black (Sicilian hyperaccelerated dragon). I guess most of my improvement came from observing tactics in games and in puzzles. Watching a lot of agadmator kind of videos also helped in figuring out what is a better move out of multiple candidate moves (I guess this is what is positional chess is about.) I have reduced playing it these days since it is quite addictive and takes up a lot of my free time. Also, it is quite demotivating to hear that no matter how much effort I put in as an adult, a 5 yo kid will be much better than me with the same amount of effort.
- jbjbjbjb 4y ago
  I have a similar story to you, learning those same systems as well! I don’t really buy the guy’s story I’m pretty sure the kid would eventually beat me regularly with enough years, but at age 5? I have access to more resources and more motivation, more focused training, less likely to make blunders.
xiaodai 4y ago
Learn Go/baduk/weiqi.
- hedgehog0 4y ago
  Glad to see you here as well :)
psyclobe 4y ago
Hah, yeah I have been teaching my 10 year old, he's very competitive. I never really gravitated towards chess but, its quality 1 on 1 time with a physical game, that is quite challenging. I love it when he wins.
lubesGordi 4y ago
I started playing chess regularly a few years ago, in my late 30s. One thing that's helped me probably the most is lichess's puzzle storm. If I'm clear minded, I can hit 25. Out of curiosity I looked up 'puzzle storm gm' just to get a sense for what a gm can do with that, and it's seriously mindblowing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1arZ7pHspDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1arZ7pHspDo This really shows how much of chess is subconscious recognition of patterns. Training that is much easier when you're young. Learning chess is a fascinating way of getting in touch with that kind of training.
- swah 4y ago
  Thanks for this. I tried learning a few weeks ago, enjoyed playing but didn't get better, and forgot about it. (The Youtube chess scene is booming, btw. Thats how I got interested.)
- aliston 4y ago
  I'm also in my 30s and enjoy the challenge of chess, but have never been able to get beyond the basics. Sure, I can learn one particular gambit by approaching it like an algorithm, but I've never felt like I was able to grasp the high level strategy in the way that the author describes. There just seems to be too many permutations and tricks for me to memorize them all. Did you ever reach a point where the game come together? If so, has it been from memorizing very specific lines (kings gambit, if this then that) type of stuff or is it really more like intuition?
  - Dr_Birdbrain 4y ago
    I would recommend two things: - Do lots of tactics puzzles—treat it like exercise, consistency is key. 1 to 3 puzzles per day is ideal. - Read strategy books. Don’t worry about memorizing, just get the intuitive gist of things like moving rooks to open files, knights to outposts, keeping pawns on opposite color squares of your bishops, try to pile up pieces against the enemy king, etc.
  - nescioquid 4y ago
    The psych literature on expertise draws in part from studying chess masters, and this expertise in chess mainly consists in recognizing a large number of critical positions. But this is founded in a fluency with tactics. The parent is doing probably the most effective thing at their level by focusing on tactics, tactics, tactics. Learn the basic tactical motifs, practice finding them in puzzles, and practice employing them in games. When you are starting with chess, don't study openings, just learn basic opening principles -- how to develop your pieces. Learning opening lines is the least productive thing you can do right now. The same positions can arise from multiple opening lines, so you are better off understanding principles and learning tactics (and how to calculate).
Jaruzel 4y ago
Reading through this, I have to wonder why the Father was so obsessed with beating his Daughter? I have a daughter, and I have nothing but admiration for the things she does well, that I am no good at. Would I devote hours/days/months of my life to become an expert in a thing just so I could beat her at it? Certainly not. The Father in this piece is running the risk of ruining for her, one of the very things she is really good at (and clearly enjoys), and all because of his own insecurity.
- sritchie 4y ago
  I had the same reaction. I have a 3.5yo daughter now, and it feels like spending time and attention being truly interested in the things she loves is a great way to bond. The extra zing of needing to beat her is ego, and as you say feels like it would sour the positive effect of all of those hours. Same observations seems right for many other types of relationships. Time and attention is a gift, don't ruin it with ego.
- exhilaration 4y ago
  But she beat him after that. Don't you see the enormous value in her knowing that she's beating him fair and square? Even after the enormous effort he's making? She must feel like the smartest kid in the world. My son is 11 and he started beating me at chess when he was 10. I never once let him win, each of his wins was 100% earned and I tried like hell to beat him each time.
  - Jaruzel 4y ago
    Ah Ok, I didn't see it like that - thanks for the alternate viewpoint.
- tetsusaiga 4y ago
  I didn't really read it as him having an obsession with beating her— It struck me more that this was his reckoning with the inevitable regression of his own cognition, in the context of comparison to the developing cognition of his daughter. Like racing the clock even if you have competitors on the track. Sure, there was some disconcert over the fact he was "getting lapped" and he knew it, but I think that realistically we'd all feel that way at least a little. Even if it was our kid. Not because we're jealous of them, but rather because they are forcing us to face our own decline. Not that I am necessarily correct. Just a thought.
wjossey 4y ago
Add me to the list of folks likely to respond to this thread about getting back into it later in life. I have a toddler (and soon baby number 2) and I find it a really enjoyable brain exercise when I have brief gaps. For those of you with just basic experience, or looking to learn, I really recommend the “Chessbrah Building Habits” series on YouTube. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8N8j2e7RpPnpqbISqi1SJ9_wrnNU3rEm https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8N8j2e7RpPnpqbISqi1SJ9_w... GM Aman is a really pleasant dude, solid teacher, and takes the most methodical approach to coaching beginners to intermediates how to build habits at each elo range to keep growing. For those new to time controls, 15 minute rapid games are a good place to start. I felt a lot more comfortable after a couple of months jumping to 3 or 5 minute blitz based on my schedule, once I felt like I could get out of the opening without being totally lost :) Other great content creators are GothamChess (be aware his YouTube and twitch styles are different but equally awesome), Hikaru, Eric Rosen, Nemo, St Louis Chess Club, and so many more. The chess community is really great. I hope y’all come and join the fun.
- oldstrangers 4y ago
  Would be a shame not to mention Naroditsky. Watch him play through lower rated players and give you great insight to both his and his opponents thought process. https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielNaroditskyGM/ https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielNaroditskyGM/
  - trey-jones 4y ago
    Guy is also doing a very ambitious series on endgame concepts. I'm bad at chess, but learning a lot.
  - wjossey 4y ago
    You're 100% right. Thanks for adding Danya.
  - Tenoke 4y ago
    I watch all of his videos but if you are starting, 'Building habits' is definitely much better, Aman will often keep making the simple moves he preaches even when more complex ones are available just to drill it into you. Naroditsky, while a great teacher and highly educational can't help himself from playing overly complicated lines that people at those levels wouldn't see. Hikaru is even worse in that respect (tho he doesn't attempt to be particularly educational in the first place anyway). Other than that, I'd also recommend John Bartholomew who also explains his moves thoroughly in his series where he plays lower rated players.
david927 4y ago
One day, a year before turning 50, I decided to play a five minute game of chess against Lichess, level 2. I lost horribly but I wanted to make it a habit. So every day with my morning coffee I would play a quick game. For months I didn't win a single game until, one day, I did. That was five years ago. I still don't play more than a game or two a day, always 5+0 Blitz, but each year I've moved up a level in Lichess and I think about 100 points. I'm somewhere between 1700 and 1800 rating currently. Now I'm plateauing and I can see that some openings are killing me and I'm still too tactical, meaning moving up in ranking won't be as easy now, but if the author is using an anecdote to say that you can't be a novice when you get older, I'll use one to say that's nonsense. It's a mindset; it's up to you.
- krsrhe 4y ago
ajdegol 4y ago
I deep dived into chess several months ago, probably on the back of that netflix series (Queen's gambit?). Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make, and if you make one wrong move you get systematically beaten. After you break out, then fine, then there is chess. This just killed it for me: the fact it's a memorisation exercise. I'd rather remember less useless facts if I'm rote doing that. The chess puzzles are fun, the new variations are fun, but the original game, just pointless.
- stnmtn 4y ago
  The opening is in no way like that until you get to extremely high-level high-skill games, which will take years if not a decade Until then, all you have to do is understand a few basic opening goals; and you're good to go. You don't have to memorize 20 moves deep of every opening if you are 800-1900 ELO, that's just silly and completely wrong.
- sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
  I don't quite know what you mean by "chess nowadays". It's always been the case that the players who make the best moves win more. And it's always been the case that memorization is a part of making good moves. Nothing qualitatively changed nowadays, it's always been true. What has changed quantitatively is that the quality of the average player is going up over the centuries, and memorization is part of that. So basically, what you said is equivalent to "with the amount of effort I'm willing to put in, I'm in a low percentile nowadays". Well, yes. And that's a good thing.
- oldstrangers 4y ago
  >Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make Not even remotely true. I'm 2000+ rated on chess.com and I can't tell you the first 6+ moves of any single opening.
- slothtrop 4y ago
  You could try Go instead. But it won't be any easier despite having (arguably) less to memorize.
racl101 4y ago
I can learn a lot of programming languages at 40 no problem but learning fucking DnD and/or chess at 40 or how to play an instrument is a fucking nightmare. It's even worse when people say to me: my 15 year old can figure this out. Yes, the embarrassment of being a Novice at anything at 40 is part of the issue, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. But yeah, I just find myself having trouble learning things fast enough.
- tarentel 4y ago
  You just have to find enjoyment in it or whatever else you're trying to learn. There will likely always be people better than you, this is especially true of chess. If the only enjoyment you get out of it is being good then chess is probably not the hobby for you. I started in my early 30s and I likely lose to 12 year olds online all the time, I lost to one in real life even though I'm a fairly highly rated player. It's still fun though.
- Handytinge 4y ago
  > Yes, the embarrassment of being a Novice at anything at 40 is part of the issue, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. This sounds like a pride/ego issue more than anything. You need to learn pacing. You'll probably take longer than a teenager, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to learn most skills with practice. I doubt anyone else passionate about whatever you're learning cares about your age. Most people are just excited others also enjoy their hobby or skill.
- frontman1988 4y ago
  At 40 you are dumber than a 15 year old. Your brain just can't compete on learning new things. Accepting this will help in aging gracefully given soon you will become physically weaker than most 15 year olds as well.
- ZanyProgrammer 4y ago
  If you're not genuinely interested in chess or DnD, it'll be harder to learn. You don't need to be interested in either, no one will think less of your intelligence or geekiness if you aren't! It's just that there's a certain expectation that certain geeky things are (best, only?) learned when one is 12.
eismcc 4y ago
After training AI Go engine for competitions and seeing an AI learn more in one weekend than I can in one lifetime, I feel it's hard to be motivated to learn this kind of thing. I feel like I'm training my bespoke artisanal neural network.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  But do you stop running just because an F1 car is much much faster? The fun is not in losing but in exercising.
  - krsrhe 4y ago
  - eismcc 4y ago
    I think it's more along the lines of playing against HAL9000. HAL politely beats you and asks you for another game.
v8xi 4y ago
I started playing regularly about 5 years ago after a New Year's resolution to break a video game addiction - I figured I would play it when the urge was too much and that either I would stop playing games entirely, or come out being decent at a timeless game that is at least considered a respectable pastime... I started playing 5+0 rated on Lichess (which if you've never been to, you should check it out right now as an awesome example of beautifully designed, open-sourced software) . Right away dropped to ~1000 elo which was like the bottom 10-15% at the time but kept it up and have climbed as high as 1900 recently. I always thought chess was so boring but I realized I always just hated waiting for the opponent to move so Blitz was perfect for me. And, believe it or not, it'll get your heart racing just like any other high-stakes game.
evanmoran 4y ago
It’s fun seeing so many parents at 40 jumping into chess personally and with their kids. I’m doing exactly the same thing and it makes me want to take lessons to step it up :) Since you all have more experience than I do, does anyone have a sense of what rating is reasonably achievable with daily effort? Perhaps this is the wrong approach, as we obviously want to be as high as we can, but just curious if 1800 or 2000 is out of reach for most people or not? For context I can beat 1500 bots, but get crushed by a 1700 (though it isn’t clear if bots are accurately rated or not, so maybe I should use a different metric?)
- ar_lan 4y ago
  I think you should try playing people instead of bots. I'm 1100 but can beat the 1500 bots (not necessarily easily, but about 1/3 of the time). The problem with the bots is they are rated by just throwing in a random blunder every once in a while (which is what humans do too, but usually the bots are a bit more apparent about it).
gfaregan 4y ago
How about learning 4D chess at 40?
mikej1000 4y ago
Try learning Japanese at 55. It’s the same. I was in an evening class with other students who were mostly in their 20s. The age thing was really obvious. All the older students struggled. I kind of thought I could be super organised, come up with smart efficient ways to learn characters etc. But no, you need raw brain power - mostly memory I think. Wisdom doesn’t count for much. I learnt more about the reality of growing old than I did about Japanese:-)

119 points by sebg 4y ago

I too started learning chess at the beginning of this pandemic when I turned 29. While I knew how the pieces moved as a kid, I was unaware of rules such as promotion, pawns moving two squares in the beginning, en passant etc. When I started I was 900 blitz on chess.com. I moved to ~1750 on Chess.com blitz and ~2000 on lichess blitz. I assume I would be higher in rapid if I played it as much, probably due to less competition in it online. I learned a single opening with white (and probably the most hated - London system), and one with black (Sicilian hyperaccelerated dragon). I guess most of my improvement came from observing tactics in games and in puzzles. Watching a lot of agadmator kind of videos also helped in figuring out what is a better move out of multiple candidate moves (I guess this is what is positional chess is about.) I have reduced playing it these days since it is quite addictive and takes up a lot of my free time. Also, it is quite demotivating to hear that no matter how much effort I put in as an adult, a 5 yo kid will be much better than me with the same amount of effort.

jbjbjbjb 4y ago
I have a similar story to you, learning those same systems as well! I don’t really buy the guy’s story I’m pretty sure the kid would eventually beat me regularly with enough years, but at age 5? I have access to more resources and more motivation, more focused training, less likely to make blunders.

xiaodai 4y ago

Learn Go/baduk/weiqi.

hedgehog0 4y ago
Glad to see you here as well :)

psyclobe 4y ago

Hah, yeah I have been teaching my 10 year old, he's very competitive. I never really gravitated towards chess but, its quality 1 on 1 time with a physical game, that is quite challenging. I love it when he wins.

lubesGordi 4y ago

I started playing chess regularly a few years ago, in my late 30s. One thing that's helped me probably the most is lichess's puzzle storm. If I'm clear minded, I can hit 25. Out of curiosity I looked up 'puzzle storm gm' just to get a sense for what a gm can do with that, and it's seriously mindblowing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1arZ7pHspDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1arZ7pHspDo This really shows how much of chess is subconscious recognition of patterns. Training that is much easier when you're young. Learning chess is a fascinating way of getting in touch with that kind of training.

swah 4y ago
Thanks for this. I tried learning a few weeks ago, enjoyed playing but didn't get better, and forgot about it. (The Youtube chess scene is booming, btw. Thats how I got interested.)
aliston 4y ago
I'm also in my 30s and enjoy the challenge of chess, but have never been able to get beyond the basics. Sure, I can learn one particular gambit by approaching it like an algorithm, but I've never felt like I was able to grasp the high level strategy in the way that the author describes. There just seems to be too many permutations and tricks for me to memorize them all. Did you ever reach a point where the game come together? If so, has it been from memorizing very specific lines (kings gambit, if this then that) type of stuff or is it really more like intuition?
- Dr_Birdbrain 4y ago
  I would recommend two things: - Do lots of tactics puzzles—treat it like exercise, consistency is key. 1 to 3 puzzles per day is ideal. - Read strategy books. Don’t worry about memorizing, just get the intuitive gist of things like moving rooks to open files, knights to outposts, keeping pawns on opposite color squares of your bishops, try to pile up pieces against the enemy king, etc.
- nescioquid 4y ago
  The psych literature on expertise draws in part from studying chess masters, and this expertise in chess mainly consists in recognizing a large number of critical positions. But this is founded in a fluency with tactics. The parent is doing probably the most effective thing at their level by focusing on tactics, tactics, tactics. Learn the basic tactical motifs, practice finding them in puzzles, and practice employing them in games. When you are starting with chess, don't study openings, just learn basic opening principles -- how to develop your pieces. Learning opening lines is the least productive thing you can do right now. The same positions can arise from multiple opening lines, so you are better off understanding principles and learning tactics (and how to calculate).

Jaruzel 4y ago

Reading through this, I have to wonder why the Father was so obsessed with beating his Daughter? I have a daughter, and I have nothing but admiration for the things she does well, that I am no good at. Would I devote hours/days/months of my life to become an expert in a thing just so I could beat her at it? Certainly not. The Father in this piece is running the risk of ruining for her, one of the very things she is really good at (and clearly enjoys), and all because of his own insecurity.

sritchie 4y ago
I had the same reaction. I have a 3.5yo daughter now, and it feels like spending time and attention being truly interested in the things she loves is a great way to bond. The extra zing of needing to beat her is ego, and as you say feels like it would sour the positive effect of all of those hours. Same observations seems right for many other types of relationships. Time and attention is a gift, don't ruin it with ego.
exhilaration 4y ago
But she beat him after that. Don't you see the enormous value in her knowing that she's beating him fair and square? Even after the enormous effort he's making? She must feel like the smartest kid in the world. My son is 11 and he started beating me at chess when he was 10. I never once let him win, each of his wins was 100% earned and I tried like hell to beat him each time.
- Jaruzel 4y ago
  Ah Ok, I didn't see it like that - thanks for the alternate viewpoint.
tetsusaiga 4y ago
I didn't really read it as him having an obsession with beating her— It struck me more that this was his reckoning with the inevitable regression of his own cognition, in the context of comparison to the developing cognition of his daughter. Like racing the clock even if you have competitors on the track. Sure, there was some disconcert over the fact he was "getting lapped" and he knew it, but I think that realistically we'd all feel that way at least a little. Even if it was our kid. Not because we're jealous of them, but rather because they are forcing us to face our own decline. Not that I am necessarily correct. Just a thought.

wjossey 4y ago

Add me to the list of folks likely to respond to this thread about getting back into it later in life. I have a toddler (and soon baby number 2) and I find it a really enjoyable brain exercise when I have brief gaps. For those of you with just basic experience, or looking to learn, I really recommend the “Chessbrah Building Habits” series on YouTube. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8N8j2e7RpPnpqbISqi1SJ9_wrnNU3rEm https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8N8j2e7RpPnpqbISqi1SJ9_w... GM Aman is a really pleasant dude, solid teacher, and takes the most methodical approach to coaching beginners to intermediates how to build habits at each elo range to keep growing. For those new to time controls, 15 minute rapid games are a good place to start. I felt a lot more comfortable after a couple of months jumping to 3 or 5 minute blitz based on my schedule, once I felt like I could get out of the opening without being totally lost :) Other great content creators are GothamChess (be aware his YouTube and twitch styles are different but equally awesome), Hikaru, Eric Rosen, Nemo, St Louis Chess Club, and so many more. The chess community is really great. I hope y’all come and join the fun.

oldstrangers 4y ago
Would be a shame not to mention Naroditsky. Watch him play through lower rated players and give you great insight to both his and his opponents thought process. https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielNaroditskyGM/ https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielNaroditskyGM/
- trey-jones 4y ago
  Guy is also doing a very ambitious series on endgame concepts. I'm bad at chess, but learning a lot.
- wjossey 4y ago
  You're 100% right. Thanks for adding Danya.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  I watch all of his videos but if you are starting, 'Building habits' is definitely much better, Aman will often keep making the simple moves he preaches even when more complex ones are available just to drill it into you. Naroditsky, while a great teacher and highly educational can't help himself from playing overly complicated lines that people at those levels wouldn't see. Hikaru is even worse in that respect (tho he doesn't attempt to be particularly educational in the first place anyway). Other than that, I'd also recommend John Bartholomew who also explains his moves thoroughly in his series where he plays lower rated players.

david927 4y ago

One day, a year before turning 50, I decided to play a five minute game of chess against Lichess, level 2. I lost horribly but I wanted to make it a habit. So every day with my morning coffee I would play a quick game. For months I didn't win a single game until, one day, I did. That was five years ago. I still don't play more than a game or two a day, always 5+0 Blitz, but each year I've moved up a level in Lichess and I think about 100 points. I'm somewhere between 1700 and 1800 rating currently. Now I'm plateauing and I can see that some openings are killing me and I'm still too tactical, meaning moving up in ranking won't be as easy now, but if the author is using an anecdote to say that you can't be a novice when you get older, I'll use one to say that's nonsense. It's a mindset; it's up to you.

krsrhe 4y ago

ajdegol 4y ago

I deep dived into chess several months ago, probably on the back of that netflix series (Queen's gambit?). Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make, and if you make one wrong move you get systematically beaten. After you break out, then fine, then there is chess. This just killed it for me: the fact it's a memorisation exercise. I'd rather remember less useless facts if I'm rote doing that. The chess puzzles are fun, the new variations are fun, but the original game, just pointless.

stnmtn 4y ago
The opening is in no way like that until you get to extremely high-level high-skill games, which will take years if not a decade Until then, all you have to do is understand a few basic opening goals; and you're good to go. You don't have to memorize 20 moves deep of every opening if you are 800-1900 ELO, that's just silly and completely wrong.
sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
I don't quite know what you mean by "chess nowadays". It's always been the case that the players who make the best moves win more. And it's always been the case that memorization is a part of making good moves. Nothing qualitatively changed nowadays, it's always been true. What has changed quantitatively is that the quality of the average player is going up over the centuries, and memorization is part of that. So basically, what you said is equivalent to "with the amount of effort I'm willing to put in, I'm in a low percentile nowadays". Well, yes. And that's a good thing.
oldstrangers 4y ago
>Then you realise, that chess nowadays is purely a memorisation exercise of the first 20 moves you can make Not even remotely true. I'm 2000+ rated on chess.com and I can't tell you the first 6+ moves of any single opening.
slothtrop 4y ago
You could try Go instead. But it won't be any easier despite having (arguably) less to memorize.

racl101 4y ago

I can learn a lot of programming languages at 40 no problem but learning fucking DnD and/or chess at 40 or how to play an instrument is a fucking nightmare. It's even worse when people say to me: my 15 year old can figure this out. Yes, the embarrassment of being a Novice at anything at 40 is part of the issue, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. But yeah, I just find myself having trouble learning things fast enough.

tarentel 4y ago
You just have to find enjoyment in it or whatever else you're trying to learn. There will likely always be people better than you, this is especially true of chess. If the only enjoyment you get out of it is being good then chess is probably not the hobby for you. I started in my early 30s and I likely lose to 12 year olds online all the time, I lost to one in real life even though I'm a fairly highly rated player. It's still fun though.
Handytinge 4y ago
> Yes, the embarrassment of being a Novice at anything at 40 is part of the issue, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. This sounds like a pride/ego issue more than anything. You need to learn pacing. You'll probably take longer than a teenager, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to learn most skills with practice. I doubt anyone else passionate about whatever you're learning cares about your age. Most people are just excited others also enjoy their hobby or skill.
frontman1988 4y ago
At 40 you are dumber than a 15 year old. Your brain just can't compete on learning new things. Accepting this will help in aging gracefully given soon you will become physically weaker than most 15 year olds as well.
ZanyProgrammer 4y ago
If you're not genuinely interested in chess or DnD, it'll be harder to learn. You don't need to be interested in either, no one will think less of your intelligence or geekiness if you aren't! It's just that there's a certain expectation that certain geeky things are (best, only?) learned when one is 12.

eismcc 4y ago

After training AI Go engine for competitions and seeing an AI learn more in one weekend than I can in one lifetime, I feel it's hard to be motivated to learn this kind of thing. I feel like I'm training my bespoke artisanal neural network.

pfortuny 4y ago
But do you stop running just because an F1 car is much much faster? The fun is not in losing but in exercising.
- krsrhe 4y ago
- eismcc 4y ago
  I think it's more along the lines of playing against HAL9000. HAL politely beats you and asks you for another game.

v8xi 4y ago

I started playing regularly about 5 years ago after a New Year's resolution to break a video game addiction - I figured I would play it when the urge was too much and that either I would stop playing games entirely, or come out being decent at a timeless game that is at least considered a respectable pastime... I started playing 5+0 rated on Lichess (which if you've never been to, you should check it out right now as an awesome example of beautifully designed, open-sourced software) . Right away dropped to ~1000 elo which was like the bottom 10-15% at the time but kept it up and have climbed as high as 1900 recently. I always thought chess was so boring but I realized I always just hated waiting for the opponent to move so Blitz was perfect for me. And, believe it or not, it'll get your heart racing just like any other high-stakes game.

evanmoran 4y ago

It’s fun seeing so many parents at 40 jumping into chess personally and with their kids. I’m doing exactly the same thing and it makes me want to take lessons to step it up :) Since you all have more experience than I do, does anyone have a sense of what rating is reasonably achievable with daily effort? Perhaps this is the wrong approach, as we obviously want to be as high as we can, but just curious if 1800 or 2000 is out of reach for most people or not? For context I can beat 1500 bots, but get crushed by a 1700 (though it isn’t clear if bots are accurately rated or not, so maybe I should use a different metric?)

ar_lan 4y ago
I think you should try playing people instead of bots. I'm 1100 but can beat the 1500 bots (not necessarily easily, but about 1/3 of the time). The problem with the bots is they are rated by just throwing in a random blunder every once in a while (which is what humans do too, but usually the bots are a bit more apparent about it).

gfaregan 4y ago

How about learning 4D chess at 40?

mikej1000 4y ago

Try learning Japanese at 55. It’s the same. I was in an evening class with other students who were mostly in their 20s. The age thing was really obvious. All the older students struggled. I kind of thought I could be super organised, come up with smart efficient ways to learn characters etc. But no, you need raw brain power - mostly memory I think. Wisdom doesn’t count for much. I learnt more about the reality of growing old than I did about Japanese:-)