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Contrast with Japanese residential housing: > An unusual feature of Japanese housing is that houses are presumed to have a limited lifespan, and are generally

Contrast with Japanese residential housing: > An unusual feature of Japanese housing is that houses are presumed to have a limited lifespan, and are generally torn down and rebuilt after a few decades, generally twenty years for wooden buildings and thirty years for concrete buildings – see (§) regulations for details. Refurbishing properties, rather than rebuilding them, is a relatively uncommon practice in Japan, though its prevalence is increasing, indicating that attitudes towards older houses may be changing.[1] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Japan > Raze, rebuild, repeat: why Japan knocks down its houses after 30 years * https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusable-housing-revolution https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/16/japan-reusabl... > Japanese Homes Aren’t Built to Last—and That’s the Point * https://robbreport.com/shelter/home-design/japanese-homes-are-ephemeral-facing-demolition-just-22-years-in-heres-why-1234608438/ https://robbreport.com/shelter/home-design/japanese-homes-ar...

gamegoblin 4y ago
The main subject of the post is a temple that has been torn down and rebuilt every 20 years for over a thousand years. It’s an example of continual, dynamic renewal rather than static permanence.
donw 4y ago
It is fantastically frustrating, as it makes wealth-building through home ownership impossible. The land will nominally hold its value, but the $300k+ you spend to build a house literally just... vanishes. This might have made sense back when houses were cheap to build, but now, houses in Japan are probably twice as expensive per unit area compared to the US. Salaries are low as well, so building a house here is basically a one-way ticket to 35 years of wage-slavery. Don't even think about a used house, because they were built to a level of cheapness that defies logic, along with a complete disregard for utility. A 1970s rubber-stamp development home in the US has better design, no joke. Windows, light switches, and walls will be allocated by a pseudo-random algorithm that somehow maximizes inconvenience: "Hmm... what could we do on this wall? I know, a gigantic off-center window that looks directly out upon the wall of the neighbor's house! Let's also make sure the kitchen sink underneath it is also off-center, but differently. That 'sketched by a drunken, retarded misanthrope' effect doesn't just happen on its own: you gotta work for it." "We've got this other wall over here, how can we make it even more useless? We've already sketched in a massive off-center window that looks right into the neighbor's lavatory, but I dunno. Something's missing. I think we left some utility... ah, that's it, we need to drop the window below countertop height." "Remember, electricity is a fad. One 20A circuit is plenty to cover an entire six-meter wall. In the kitchen." Did I also mention that a "big" housing lot is 1/20 of an acre? Usually no yard, just concrete. (You are correct in observing that I have spent way too much time on this over the past year, as I very much would like to buy a home)
- throwaway1777 4y ago
  Fantastically frustrating to someone with an American point of view. What do the Japanese think about it? Perhaps there’s a different point of view?
  - donw 4y ago
    Nope, they hate it, too.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    They spend their lives buying a house that's worth nothing when they die. Nobody likes it.
    - dangus 4y ago
      Japan's home prices have been flat, over decades, which means housing remains relatively affordable: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-home-prices-stay-flat-11554210002 https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-ho... The West has not kept up with housing demand, which turns homes into more of an investment than they should be in the first place. The CPI adjusted price of a home is over double what it was in the mid-century: https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/ https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/ If each subsequent generation has decreasing levels of home ownership, spending a higher percentage of their income on housing, the fact that you get to retain the value of your property more easily could be seen as a moot point. You always have to live somewhere, and if the price of your home increases, selling it just means you have to find another place to live that is equally expensive. The only thing this cycle of "investment properties" does is make life worse for the youngest generation. I don't really care what my house will be worth when I'm die, I'll be dead.
      - ekianjo 4y ago
        > I don't really care what my house will be worth when I'm die, I'll be dead. You are completely missing the point. Let's say you have to move when you are in your 60s for any kind of reason. Your properly is absolutely worthless in Japan and you won't be able to buy a new one or even get a loan at that age. You are absolutely hosed.
fomine3 4y ago
This is a bit myth. Though taxable value would become near zero and it can't be priced much (except land), usually houses won't be rebuilt at 20 years. Original residents continue to live there. No market value != no value.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- burntoutfire 4y ago
  Does that mean it's possible to buy a 20-30 year old house for just the price of land? That sounds fantastic.

gamegoblin 4y ago

The main subject of the post is a temple that has been torn down and rebuilt every 20 years for over a thousand years. It’s an example of continual, dynamic renewal rather than static permanence.

donw 4y ago

It is fantastically frustrating, as it makes wealth-building through home ownership impossible. The land will nominally hold its value, but the $300k+ you spend to build a house literally just... vanishes. This might have made sense back when houses were cheap to build, but now, houses in Japan are probably twice as expensive per unit area compared to the US. Salaries are low as well, so building a house here is basically a one-way ticket to 35 years of wage-slavery. Don't even think about a used house, because they were built to a level of cheapness that defies logic, along with a complete disregard for utility. A 1970s rubber-stamp development home in the US has better design, no joke. Windows, light switches, and walls will be allocated by a pseudo-random algorithm that somehow maximizes inconvenience: "Hmm... what could we do on this wall? I know, a gigantic off-center window that looks directly out upon the wall of the neighbor's house! Let's also make sure the kitchen sink underneath it is also off-center, but differently. That 'sketched by a drunken, retarded misanthrope' effect doesn't just happen on its own: you gotta work for it." "We've got this other wall over here, how can we make it even more useless? We've already sketched in a massive off-center window that looks right into the neighbor's lavatory, but I dunno. Something's missing. I think we left some utility... ah, that's it, we need to drop the window below countertop height." "Remember, electricity is a fad. One 20A circuit is plenty to cover an entire six-meter wall. In the kitchen." Did I also mention that a "big" housing lot is 1/20 of an acre? Usually no yard, just concrete. (You are correct in observing that I have spent way too much time on this over the past year, as I very much would like to buy a home)

throwaway1777 4y ago
Fantastically frustrating to someone with an American point of view. What do the Japanese think about it? Perhaps there’s a different point of view?
- donw 4y ago
  Nope, they hate it, too.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  They spend their lives buying a house that's worth nothing when they die. Nobody likes it.
  - dangus 4y ago
    Japan's home prices have been flat, over decades, which means housing remains relatively affordable: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-home-prices-stay-flat-11554210002 https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-housing-crisis-in-japan-ho... The West has not kept up with housing demand, which turns homes into more of an investment than they should be in the first place. The CPI adjusted price of a home is over double what it was in the mid-century: https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/ https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/ If each subsequent generation has decreasing levels of home ownership, spending a higher percentage of their income on housing, the fact that you get to retain the value of your property more easily could be seen as a moot point. You always have to live somewhere, and if the price of your home increases, selling it just means you have to find another place to live that is equally expensive. The only thing this cycle of "investment properties" does is make life worse for the youngest generation. I don't really care what my house will be worth when I'm die, I'll be dead.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      > I don't really care what my house will be worth when I'm die, I'll be dead. You are completely missing the point. Let's say you have to move when you are in your 60s for any kind of reason. Your properly is absolutely worthless in Japan and you won't be able to buy a new one or even get a loan at that age. You are absolutely hosed.

fomine3 4y ago

This is a bit myth. Though taxable value would become near zero and it can't be priced much (except land), usually houses won't be rebuilt at 20 years. Original residents continue to live there. No market value != no value.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
burntoutfire 4y ago
Does that mean it's possible to buy a 20-30 year old house for just the price of land? That sounds fantastic.