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Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud
- syats 4y agoCould someone please explain to me how this is going to prevent "fraud"? Is every buyer of a whole wheel of cheese expected to have a reader for these tags? I feel sorry for the poor bastard who bought into the buzzword soup of the providers and decided to go on with this project :(
- perihelions 4y agoI found technical details about the device: https://www.isenet.it/product/pharmaseq-products/ https://www.isenet.it/product/pharmaseq-products/ It's tiny (500 microns), passive, photocell-powered (you point a laser at it), and encapsulated in an inert SiO2 coating.
- ge96 4y agoInteresting that it is injected (how deep) yet can still be powered by a laser.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y agoSiO2 is glass. So it's a micron-sized silicon chip inside a glass capsule.
- soco 4y ago...under x mm of cheese.
- yread 4y agoI know the company - it's a family business, focused on making great tools for scientists
- gregsadetsky 4y agoFascinating -- https://p-chip.com/solutions/ https://p-chip.com/solutions/ And the patent -- https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bf/71/15/70b430386a60be/US7098394.pdf https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bf/71/15/70b4303...
- ravel-bar-foo 4y agoIt looks like the patent covers an integrated on-chip solar cell. I wonder if the output is by on-chip LED or radio, and if they keep that a trade secret or if it is covered by patent also.
- gregsadetsky 4y agoYeah I had the same question. I didn’t see any mentions of radio in the patent, but the product description document [0] does say: —— Is the radio frequency signal from the p-Chip harmful? A. No. The radio signal transmitted by p-Chips is so faint that approval from the US Federal Communications Commission or similar agencies is not required. Emissions fall well below FCC radiated emission limits defined in CFR 47, 15.209. —— The illuminating laser wand does have a radio receiver. More info in this related patent [1], especially at page 21. [0] https://www.isenet.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PharmaSeq_White_Paper_Small_Animal_Tagging.pdf https://www.isenet.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/PharmaSeq_W... [1] https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/43/da/03/c64838717b8a0b/US20140106470A1.pdf https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/43/da/03/c648387...
- perihelions 4y agoLooks like it's the same company (if anyone else was confused like me): - "...p-Chip acquired PharmaSeq in the fall of 2021" https://p-chip.com/meet-massimo-baio-long-time-team-member-and-new-director-of-emea-business-development/ https://p-chip.com/meet-massimo-baio-long-time-team-member-a...
- kens 4y agoI don't suppose anyone has one of these chips? I'd be interested in taking die photos.
- notatoad 4y agoSo if I'm the sort of person who eats my cheese rinds, I don't really have anything to worry about here.
- jquery 4y agoDoesn’t look edible to me.
- pmontra 4y agoIt is not but it's half a millimeter and inert. I guess that all of us had sand in our mouths and occasionally ingested part of it. Furthermore we shouldn't have that part of the cheese.
- beeforpork 4y agoThe rind is very good for cooking sauces. You pull it out afterwards, but the chip could, of course, fall out into the sauce during cooking. So if they put electronic sh*t into my food, I do not want to buy that anymore. Probably it does not need to be declared, so I don't even know I am eating electronics.
- hedora 4y agoSo, what percentage of these crack open during processing, and how poisonous are they without the sio2 casing? What about when they hit the sewer processing plant, and are eventually dumped. Also, what sort of environmental impact does producing them have? Hopefully they'll be forced to label products that have these things in them. Otherwise, I'll be switching to fake Parmesan.
- axg11 4y agoWhat makes you think any chip would be harmful to ingest? You could happily eat most chips, if they were small enough, without any negative effects.
- perihelions 4y agoThere's some hideously toxic metals in certain semiconductors, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium_arsenide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium_arsenide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_telluride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_telluride
- yreg 4y agoI'd expect the mass of these metals that can be used in a 0.5mm chip to be negligible. Still, I don't like the idea of a future where these chips are used in many food items.
- gorgoiler 4y agoIf you’re eating the rind you probably already have some more basic health issues — those of a mechanical rather than chemical nature.
- duckmysick 4y agoI've seen a few recipes where you steep the rinds in a liquid or a sauce to get more flavor.
- scheme271 4y ago
- henearkr 4y agoThat confirms something I suspected: blockchain adds nothing to this solution, and is present only because of the fad.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y agoI still don't get what it adds over a unique QR code.
- sandos 4y agoA QR code is easy to copy? Im guessing this isn't.
- henearkr 4y agoLol why would it be more difficult with blockchain? If it is a chip, then maybe. Even more if the chip was like a yubikey with challenge-response (but it isn't).
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y agoYou can copy it, but there ought to be some record of where the cheese is supposed to be. If it was sold to California but found in New York, something fishy going on. But ya, I guess just making it uncopyable would be simpler I suppose.
- dsco 4y agoWhere does it say anything about blockchains in the article and how often do you think about how much you hate them?
- bleuarff 4y agoFrom TFA: "The innovation combines food-safe Casein labels with the p-Chip micro transponder — a blockchain crypto-anchor that creates a digital 'twin' for physical items. This scannable new food tag is smaller than a grain of salt and highly durable, delivering next-generation visibility and traceability." I, for one, had never heard the term "blockchain crypto-anchor" before.
- iostream24 4y agoIs it digestible, or rather passable in stools with no harm entailed? My favorite part of Parmesan is the rind
- camillomiller 4y agoYou, sir, are a monster. Best Regards, Italy
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jquery 4y agoYour standards for food should probably be higher than “passable in stools”. Not judging but that seems like a low bar no?
- tragictrash 4y agoHow is this considered food safe? Chewing it will definitely break any casing on the device, right? The other thing I'd like to point out is that these can be copied. They aren't like a yubikey which responds to a challenge with an internal asymmetric private key.
- FourHand451 4y agoTypically you don't eat the rind on this kind of cheese.
- vfclists 4y agotry me!! What if it gets fed to some pet or farm animal?
- moistly 4y agoI suppose they might be mistaken for fine Parmesan cheese. Otherwise they’ll be fine. Have you not noticed what your dog will happily eat off the ground when you’re out for a walk? Discarded socks, gravel, bits of plastic, cat shit, gum wrappers, literally anything that catches its eye when you’re not paying close attention.
- pessimizer 4y agoThat's why I feed my dog rusty staples.
- burnished 4y agoOh that took me back to wrestling a cigarette butt out of a baby pugs eager little mouth. Honestly if that dog had taken to eating tiny electronics it probably would have been a net improvement.
- moistly 4y agoI’ve a friend with a young dog that she swears has pica. It’s proving nigh impossible to prevent it from hoovering up litter. It puts goats’ reputation to shame.
- hprotagonist 4y ago> The innovation combines food-safe Casein labels with the p-Chip micro transponder — a blockchain crypto-anchor that creates a digital 'twin' for physical items. someone just burped out some buzzwords, didn't they?
- tkanarsky 4y agoah yes, the "VC wake words" special
- bobro 4y agoexactly where i stopped reading
- cunidev 4y agoHonestly, this is how every unnecessarily techy project is advertised in my area - which happens to be the same as Parmigiano - just because most readers are so little skilled, that they will take whatever contains those as innovative. In the end, I guess the same happens in other countries, but hearing the cliché "blockchain"+"industry4.0"+"ai" buzzwords is sadly common especially when trying to attract public funding.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- vfclists 4y agoIf you consume the piece of the rind which has the tracker in it and it gets stuck in some crevice in your bowels how long are you going to be trackable as a piece of Parma cheese? How degradable are they?
- alephxyz 4y agoThat's just making the job of future archeologists easier :) On a serious note, the half-life in acidic solutions (which might include stomach acid) is 1 day according to the link shared by perihelions.
- pineconewarrior 4y agoThey appear to be visible on the edge as stickers. I don't think they are hidden within the rind.
- BenjiWiebe 4y agoAlso if they are optically powered with a laser, you'd notice if someone was trying to light it up while it was inside of you. :)
- pacbard 4y agoI'm curious to know which cheesemakers are using these chips. If you look at a wheel of Parmigiano (a whole one), you will see a number stamped on it. That's the cheesemaker's matriculation number in the consortium. There are 313 active ones right now. Some of them are very big (especially the ones in the lowlands) and some of them are very small (mostly the ones up in the hills). The small cheesemakers have trouble selling their current stock, so I doubt that they are putting tracking chips in their wheels. I can see a few big producers that work with the international market adding tracking chips to their wheels, but that's about it. Another fun fact, most cheesemakers are farmer coops and act as a sort of bank for the farmers. Most of them can borrow against their "share" of the cheese that is aging if they have a big capital expense that it coming up and they can't wait 2-3 years for the cheese to age and sell.
- hkt 4y agoI love the fact about them being coops and having the ability to borrow with their cheese as collateral. It is so old world and so wholesome. I'd like to borrow against my cheese one day.
- 0des 4y agoWhat type of cheese do you make?
- EnergyCrush 4y agoThis made me laugh so hard, not an ounce of bad intent to the previous post.
- zeristor 4y ago“Blessed are the cheese makers”
- brianzelip 4y ago"Not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."
- bsimpson 4y agoYOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CHEESE!
- perihelions 4y agoCan't duplicate a moldy cheese anyway. It's not fungi-able.
- brnt 4y agoI absolutely would buy a cheese printer and download off The Cheese Bay if I could.
- bagels 4y agoI would. This guy did, kind of, and got a cease and desist for publishing a "Grana Padano style cheese" recipe on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_AzMLhPF1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_AzMLhPF1Q
- rocqua 4y agoI am all for trademarks. But 'only things made here can have this name' is silly protectionism. Adding electronics to 'fix fraud' really is just worsening the original product. If this goes through I would prefer the fraudulent stuff over the real deal.
- mmanfrin 4y agoYou are free to buy or produce a hard dry sheep's cheese that isn't made in Emilia-Romagna. The name 'Parmesan' is a portmanteau of parts of the region (Parma, Reggio Emilia). The name is the region so saying 'only thing made here can have *the name of the region*' is absolutely not "silly protectionism".
- cheese_goddess 4y agoParmesan is cow's milk cheese. You're thinking of Pecorino Romano, which is made with sheep's milk ("pecorino" is Italin for "from sheep").
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gffrd 4y ago"Mmm, this Bordeaux is delicious!" "Do you mean 'Cabernet blend?' "
- stephenhuey 4y agoExactly. Nuances in the region such as grass and soil can affect the final flavor of the cheese. In the same way, chocolate from Mozambique is very unique, and I expect when a bag of coffee says Ethiopia or Costa Rica on it, it really ought to be from that places. The places grown truly affect the flavor for single-origin products, but it won’t matter so much if you’re consuming cocoa or coffee that’s blandly mixed together from different regions.
- 0des 4y agoterroir
- 4oo4 4y agoYou had me at cheese but lost me at blockchain.
- zepearl 4y ago:) I didn't understand it either. Maybe the blockchain crypto-anchor that creates a digital 'twin' for physical items would then create that "anchor" (like creating a bitcoin) that can then be linked (traced back) to its source (and intermediate steps like reselling/processing) when the cheese is finally sold in some form?
- lupire 4y agoThat works even if you remove the "Blockchain".
- arebop 4y agoOnly if you have a trusted central database. With blockchain you can move your cheese independent of central authority.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y agoRight, but the whole point here is that central authorities authenticate the cheese
- zepearl 4y agoSo your comment + the ones upstream mean that the consortium "Parmigiano Reggiano" could just handle the whole thing with their own "private & classical" database? If yes then that would mean that anybody that deals with "Parmigiano Reggiano"-based-products would have to request some kind of access (userid&pwd, or some ssl-certificate, etc...) and submit transactions (basically like a mini-bank only for this specific type of cheese)? If yes then a blockchain-based approach might be in some way better? You would have to emit many-smaller-cheese-coins when you produce your stuff and in order to do that you would have to consume a big-cheese-coin (which you received when you bought the big piece of cheese that you used to manufacture pizzas etc that you produce). Not sure about what I wrote - I might be overthinking some things and overlooking some other things... :P I did mine a few fractions of BTCs many years ago, but the blockchain is still not easy at all to understand for me.
- jihadjihad 4y agoOT, but I just have to say, as someone who buys "Parmesan" cheese that typically hails from Wisconsin, there is just no comparison with legit Parmigiano-Reggiano. It's the same with "Gruyere" and Gruyère -- a wholly unique cheese with a depth of flavor and character that is just inimitable, no matter how good or faithful the imitation may be. That being said, I'm not ashamed at all to say that the Parmesan I use most is the $4 wedge from Aldi.
- fatnoah 4y agoOne thing I miss about my old place in the city was the ridiculously expensive market on my block that carried all of the "real" cheese. The real stuff was so fantastic and flavorful that I usually used far less of it, which partially offset the cost. I also got a $20 jar of pasta sauce there once. I was embarrassed at how much I paid and didn't tell my wife. After her first taste, her reaction was "OMG, what is this? It's so good!". I took a taste and was blown away. Literally every taste just amazed me, so we kept getting it. I only recognized it by the label and never learned the brand, much to my chagrin (and my wallet's delight) when I moved away and never found it again.
- wahnfrieden 4y agoPianogrillo?
- fatnoah 4y agoThis was in the mid-2000's, so my memory is pretty fuzzy. I'll definitely check that brand out, though.
- matthewmcg 4y agoIf you can get good canned tomatoes (I like the Flora brand San Marzano D.O.P, about $5.50 for a 28oz can), this is a great 20 minute recipe that will usually beat any pre-made sauce: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015987-classic-marinara-sauce https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015987-classic-marinara...
- primer42 4y agoThe blockchain is so cheesy Italian cheese makers Hold my wine
- karaterobot 4y ago> according to the Parmigiano Reggiano Consortium (the official trade group for the cheese) the amount of fraud is almost as big as product sales: Authentic Parmigiano Reggiano sales are around $2.44 billion while fraudulent cheese is a $2.08 billion market. I wonder what they consider fraud. Is it that anything which says "parmesan cheese" on it without being official Parmigiano Reggiano is considered fraud? That is to say, the Kraft Parmesan they mentioned earlier would count as cheese fraud (I don't think it is, since as they say nobody is confused about what they're getting). Or, do they literally mean there is as much cheese sold under the false pretense of being Parmigiano Reggiano cheese, with fake stamps and serial numbers, and so on?
- peoplefromibiza 4y agoI believe it's the latter. > the FDA investigated a cheese factory in Pennsylvania and found that the cheese it was selling as “100% grated parmesan” was actually cut with fillers like wood pulp and contained exactly 0% real Parmesan cheese, using instead cheaper varieties like Swiss and cheddar. That particular producer was busted and heavily fined due to a tip-off from a former employee, but similar practices are still widespread. > According to Nicola Bertinelli, President of the Parmigiano-Reggiano Cheese Consortium, which works to promote authentic Parmigiano-Reggiano and fight counterfeit versions, the estimated turnover of fake parmesan worldwide is over 2 billion dollars annually — more than 15 times the amount of genuine Parmigiano-Reggiano exported each year You won't find much fake Parmigiano here in Italy, which is their largest market (IMO the amount of fake Parmigiano in Italy is so insignificant that we can count it as zero). There are other varieties, like for example Grana Padano, which are legit alternatives, but don't pretend to be Parmigiano Reggiano. It would be like trying to sell a fake Ferrari here or a fake Tullamore D.E.W. in Ireland.
- karaterobot 4y agoThat sounds like the former, to be honest. What I meant was, is there a black market of the big wheels of fake parmesan, with forged serial numbers, claiming to be approved by whatever body controls the name Parmigiano Reggiano. A plastic bag of grated cheese that says "100% grated parmesan" feels like it's not trying to claim to be real Parmigiano Reggiano. I can see why a Consortium would want to impose a strict definition in order to protect their product.
- ethbr0 4y agoNow in those days, we thought we had a bead on things. We thought they were tracking us through the vaccines, and organized to defend our freedoms. But when the true scale of privacy erosion became apparent in 2022, we were horrified and helpless. You see, it was the cheese all along...
- eecc 4y agoOh no! A secret delight is to cut the leftover rind in reasonably safe pieces and abundantly microwave them. Once cooled down they become deliciously crunchy and puffy.
- djur 4y agoThis transponder is "smaller than a grain of salt", so it probably doesn't matter, but in any case it's embedded in the casein label in the wax. If you're really worried about it and have a rind with part of the label on it, scrape off the wax.
- Y-bar 4y ago[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 0des 4y agoWhy?
- michaelmrose 4y agoBecause irrational fears aren't driven by in depth analysis they are driven by fitting in with a theme. If people play telephone pretty soon the tracking chips instead of being in the rind will be said to be in the cheese and either they will be used to remotely terminate undesirables* or tracked from a satellite. * People who put too much salt in their sauce.
- andrewxdiamond 4y agoInformation is the only way to shed light on lies. If you have to hide information, you’re just adding to the lies
- markdown 4y agoThe past decade of social media has proven that that isn't how the world works in practice. Lies fly all round the world before the truth even gets out of bed.
- jfengel 4y agoIt's the only way, and it usually doesn't work. Lies win, because reality is fighting with one hand tied behind its back. Truth is nearly always boring because it's forced to be consistent. Lies have no such limitations. Truth does have the advantage that it appeals to people who aren't complete dumbfucks. Which is to say, a tiny minority.
- denton-scratch 4y ago> tiny, food-safe transponders Oh, no. I save the rinds to put in soup (I take them out before serving!). Tracking-tag soup, anyone?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- qalmakka 4y agoWell I hope there's a way to remove those trackers, I always put the rinds in soups and stuff so it would piss me off a lot to learn there's some non-food related stuff in it.
- wallwarp 4y agoNFC = Non-fungible cheese
- vslira 4y agoI’d be pretty mad if I found that there was no fungi in my cheese
- xbar 4y agoThis is going to poison my minestrone.
- readbeard 4y agoWill they include this additive in the ingredients list?
- robga 4y agoCheese and Trackers. A timeless match.
- justsomeguy123 4y agoGreat, so we are now being fed microchips. "Honey is the parmezzan more old or are we munching on microchips?"
- jeffdn 4y agoIt's in the rind, which you'd be hard pressed to eat!
- glaucon 4y agoPretty mainstream to use Parmesan cheese rinds as part of making soups and stews of various kinds https://www.allrecipes.com/article/how-to-use-parmesan-cheese-rinds/ https://www.allrecipes.com/article/how-to-use-parmesan-chees...
- hackernewds 4y agoI eat it directly. Quite like the texture actually
- justsomeguy123 4y agoWow, TIL. I always assumed the Parmesan rind is wax.
- jeffdn 4y agoFor sure, but then you take it out before you serve it (at least in my experience).
- alexpotato 4y agoIn New Jersey at least, King's supermarkets sell chopped up rind in small containers. Source: my Italian mom buys them for me and I munch on them all the time.
- hackernewds 4y agoDoesn't the rind have wax? (same as candle wax)
- technotarek 4y agoHow is the source of this not The Onion?!
- noasaservice 4y ago"blockchain crypto-anchor" Seriously? How the bloody hell does a blockchain do ANYTHING that a database cant?
- Gigachad 4y agoStopped reading at “blockchain crypto-anchor” The whole idea of fraudulent cheese is a little sketchy anyway. Location based restrictions on names feels unethical to me.
- uwagar 4y agoand you thought these transponders arent in your vaccines too.
- devjam 4y agoI read this as: "Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny crackers in rind ..." Brilliant!
- bryanrasmussen 4y agoso my autistic child likes eating the rind if he can get a hold of it. Rinds are edible, so this is another case really of companies also screwing over the consumer - here are recipes you can use with the rind https://www.eataly.com/us_en/magazine/how-to/leftover-parmesan-rind/ https://www.eataly.com/us_en/magazine/how-to/leftover-parmes... , although I guess not any more?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- truthwhisperer 4y ago
- episode0x01 4y agoUnauthorized cheese, anyone?
- londons_explore 4y agoSuch closed industry groups are a cartel who can limit production which is actively bad for consumers. Therefore we should be doing everything we can to assist 'cheese fraud'.
- tmalsburg2 4y agoQuestion: Why is a tracker necessary? Is there no solution that works with just a qr code that contains some cryptographic signature, similar to train tickets for instance?
- bencollier49 4y agoMore microplastics - it's all a bit depressing, to be honest. "p-Chip micro-transponders can tolerate extreme temperatures (-200°C to 500°C); withstand microwave irradiation; ride out high g-forces (15,000 g); and hold up against solvents and reagents." Nice and biodegradable then.
- whiw 4y agoPresumably the grocer or end user will end up with a pile of rind containing the embedded tagging chips. Fraudsters could simply gather/buy the waste rind plus trackers to embed them in their own fake products. Unless there is a robust disposal process (sending them back to the cheese producer), the genuine trackers will just end up 'authenticating' fake products.
- camillomiller 4y agoYou might have missed from the article that these are non fungible chips, tied to an ad-hoc blockchain. What brings you to think that in 2 minutes, just by reading an article (if you’ve actually read it and not just lazily skimmed it) you’ve been able to find the single point of failure of a technology that an entire engineering company has been developing for years?
- noipv4 4y agoHere's picture of p-Chip. https://p-chip.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/pChip-tracking-and-authentication-tag-displayed-on-the-face-of-a-quarter-to-show-its-small-size.jpg https://p-chip.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/pChip-tracking... I do not want these in my diet though.
- capableweb 4y agoI don't know about you, but I generally don't eat the rind of aged/hardened cheese, so that's not really a problem (for me).
- kristjankalm 4y agoI regularly use parmigiano rind when making vegetable stock. Hopefully the tracker extract will add some nuance.
- np_tedious 4y agoIt's not a bad thing to let a dog chew on.... until now
- tomohawk 4y agoCan you still call it Parmigiano Reggiano, though, if it is adulterated with these chips?
- SergeAx 4y agoThis reminds me of the whole shebang around "champagne". There are thousands varieties of sparkling wine in the world, most of them are interesting in their own way. So, what if we stop use term "parmesan" in our recipes and use just "aged hard cheese"?
- rkagerer 4y agoAnyone know what model tracker is being used? Or can give a brief description of a p-Chip micro transponder?