4 ms·

COBOL Devs probably earn more than React Devs.

by s_dev 4y ago

eatonphil 4y ago
Every time I've gone looking for COBOL jobs on job sites out of curiosity I always see them paying pretty poorly. On Glassdoor for Cobol [0] the standard range is $54k to $179k (presumably in NYC metro where I am) with a reported maximum of $306k. The standard range for React [1] is $49k to $257k with a reported maximum of $550k. I'm not saying Glassdoor is perfect but better to have these discussions based on some measured data than just common mantra that legacy is boring but pays better. [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/cobol-programmer-salary-SRCH_KO0,16.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/cobol-programmer-salary-S... [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/react-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,15.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/react-developer-salary-SR...
- Juliate 4y ago
  (seen from France) Those are only public bids, and not everything goes through public channels. Companies working with COBOL (or things like AS400) do so because they've been using it for some time already. So they mostly already know the networks of professionals they will hire for the job, and that's often their own past employees who went freelance, or keep contracting after legal retirement kicks in. Professionals who also act as hiring agents for their replacements.
  - eatonphil 4y ago
    That's good to know. But for the purposes of people considering a new career wouldn't their position be basically the same as what you see publicly reported on Glassdoor? (assuming there's not some bias like people who use COBOL are less likely to also use Glassdoor and enter salaries there) If you're starting a new career you wouldn't have a network.
    - Juliate 4y ago
      If you're starting a new career, I'm not sure the info you will find on Glassdoor will speak much to you either (or, not as much as when you already have had one or two positions - because then you know how to interpret some signals companies broadcast through their ads, or their employees reports). And looking after COBOL (or an old tech, without having been introduced to it before) as an entry job is a bit peculiar. Better looking after the companies that still need it, understanding why, and then going through them for specific jobs, linked or not to COBOL. I understand the appeal of getting into it for the technology or the money, but getting into it for the problems and how to solve them first will open many more paths (and as much if not more money).
- pc86 4y ago
  How many of those React jobs include RSUs from privately owned companies? I would venture that approximately 100% of the COBOL jobs that's all cash compensation/salary.
  - eatonphil 4y ago
    Privately owned companies don't give RSUs normally they do stock options or revenue sharing but yes your point is good. Startups and public companies both seem to pay better base salary for modern tech developers and also give you equity or profit sharing. Whereas the government or government contractor companies that often stick with old tech (it seems) you'll only get cash. Banks may be an exception since many do give stock or good bonuses. But I don't often see bank positions looking for COBOL developers.
    - pc86 4y ago
      > Startups and public companies both seem to pay better base salary for modern tech developers and also give you equity or profit sharing. I've worked for a couple public companies, none of which gave any stock or any profit sharing to the engineering staff. I've also worked for private companies that had some profit sharing but it was never discussed other than "there is profit sharing" even when it was a substantial percentage (one place I consistently got 6-8% of my salary as profit sharing). More popular lately seems to be the pseudo-bonus-pseudo-profit-share thing where you have a set percentage of your salary as "bonus" but it requires the company overall hitting specific revenue and profit numbers, so it's essentially profit sharing with a cap. I think my point is comp structures are all over the place, but "large public company giving base, bonus, and stock" is a small minority, while "private company giving base, and maybe a bonus sometimes" is the most common.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Why is that a bad thing to offer all cash? Equity from private companies is statistically worthless. I wouldn’t even count it as part of my compensation.
    - 4y ago
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Every time I've gone looking for COBOL jobs on job sites out of curiosity I always see them paying pretty poorly Sure, but the places known for paying well in the industry are also fairly overtly hostile to late-entrants and non-traditional career paths unless those people have already built a successful business and are getting acquihired.
  - eatonphil 4y ago
    Then more reason not to suggest people go into COBOL I guess (not saying you suggested they should, just responding about this thread overall).
fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
Honestly, I really doubt it. This COBOL meme, is just that, a meme. Highest paid devs (>400k) generally work with brand new technology
mywittyname 4y ago
COBOL devs have been at their same job for 10+ years. So take whatever the average dev wage was 10 years ago, and add 3% raises. Zip Recruiter puts average salaries at around $88k/yr with the top 10% making over $110k. Payscale puts salaries a little lower than that. The of the few job postings I see, none have salary information listed -- in my experience, that tends to mean the salaries are low or average. And if you're a COBOL engineer, jobs opportunities are slim, even in a region with a large number of older banks and insurance companies (read: prime COBOL industries). There's like one job each in areas like Omaha, NE; Alpharetta, GA; Montgomery County, AL; Chattanooga, TN; Milan, IL; Feather South, FL; etc. In other words, a bunch of places nobody has ever heard of.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  The places that need to replace COBOL devs aging out of the work force with apps still running are among the places least likely to practice age discrimination to start with (and even if they were inclined to, there's not a pipeline of fresh out of college/bootcamp COBOL devs.) (C#/Java have lots more opportunities at the same type of workplaces, so aren't bad choices but also lots more competition at all experience levels and from more traditional career paths; still, late-entrants with relative domain expertise can be quite competitive with pure programmers.)

COBOL Devs probably earn more than React Devs.

by s_dev 4y ago

COBOL Devs probably earn more than React Devs.

Every time I've gone looking for COBOL jobs on job sites out of curiosity I always see them paying pretty poorly. On Glassdoor for Cobol [0] the standard range is $54k to $179k (presumably in NYC metro where I am) with a reported maximum of $306k. The standard range for React [1] is $49k to $257k with a reported maximum of $550k. I'm not saying Glassdoor is perfect but better to have these discussions based on some measured data than just common mantra that legacy is boring but pays better. [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/cobol-programmer-salary-SRCH_KO0,16.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/cobol-programmer-salary-S... [1] https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/react-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,15.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/react-developer-salary-SR...

Juliate 4y ago
(seen from France) Those are only public bids, and not everything goes through public channels. Companies working with COBOL (or things like AS400) do so because they've been using it for some time already. So they mostly already know the networks of professionals they will hire for the job, and that's often their own past employees who went freelance, or keep contracting after legal retirement kicks in. Professionals who also act as hiring agents for their replacements.
- eatonphil 4y ago
  That's good to know. But for the purposes of people considering a new career wouldn't their position be basically the same as what you see publicly reported on Glassdoor? (assuming there's not some bias like people who use COBOL are less likely to also use Glassdoor and enter salaries there) If you're starting a new career you wouldn't have a network.
  - Juliate 4y ago
    If you're starting a new career, I'm not sure the info you will find on Glassdoor will speak much to you either (or, not as much as when you already have had one or two positions - because then you know how to interpret some signals companies broadcast through their ads, or their employees reports). And looking after COBOL (or an old tech, without having been introduced to it before) as an entry job is a bit peculiar. Better looking after the companies that still need it, understanding why, and then going through them for specific jobs, linked or not to COBOL. I understand the appeal of getting into it for the technology or the money, but getting into it for the problems and how to solve them first will open many more paths (and as much if not more money).
pc86 4y ago
How many of those React jobs include RSUs from privately owned companies? I would venture that approximately 100% of the COBOL jobs that's all cash compensation/salary.
- eatonphil 4y ago
  Privately owned companies don't give RSUs normally they do stock options or revenue sharing but yes your point is good. Startups and public companies both seem to pay better base salary for modern tech developers and also give you equity or profit sharing. Whereas the government or government contractor companies that often stick with old tech (it seems) you'll only get cash. Banks may be an exception since many do give stock or good bonuses. But I don't often see bank positions looking for COBOL developers.
  - pc86 4y ago
    > Startups and public companies both seem to pay better base salary for modern tech developers and also give you equity or profit sharing. I've worked for a couple public companies, none of which gave any stock or any profit sharing to the engineering staff. I've also worked for private companies that had some profit sharing but it was never discussed other than "there is profit sharing" even when it was a substantial percentage (one place I consistently got 6-8% of my salary as profit sharing). More popular lately seems to be the pseudo-bonus-pseudo-profit-share thing where you have a set percentage of your salary as "bonus" but it requires the company overall hitting specific revenue and profit numbers, so it's essentially profit sharing with a cap. I think my point is comp structures are all over the place, but "large public company giving base, bonus, and stock" is a small minority, while "private company giving base, and maybe a bonus sometimes" is the most common.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Why is that a bad thing to offer all cash? Equity from private companies is statistically worthless. I wouldn’t even count it as part of my compensation.
  - 4y ago
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Every time I've gone looking for COBOL jobs on job sites out of curiosity I always see them paying pretty poorly Sure, but the places known for paying well in the industry are also fairly overtly hostile to late-entrants and non-traditional career paths unless those people have already built a successful business and are getting acquihired.
- eatonphil 4y ago
  Then more reason not to suggest people go into COBOL I guess (not saying you suggested they should, just responding about this thread overall).

fdgsdfogijq 4y ago

Honestly, I really doubt it. This COBOL meme, is just that, a meme. Highest paid devs (>400k) generally work with brand new technology

mywittyname 4y ago

COBOL devs have been at their same job for 10+ years. So take whatever the average dev wage was 10 years ago, and add 3% raises. Zip Recruiter puts average salaries at around $88k/yr with the top 10% making over $110k. Payscale puts salaries a little lower than that. The of the few job postings I see, none have salary information listed -- in my experience, that tends to mean the salaries are low or average. And if you're a COBOL engineer, jobs opportunities are slim, even in a region with a large number of older banks and insurance companies (read: prime COBOL industries). There's like one job each in areas like Omaha, NE; Alpharetta, GA; Montgomery County, AL; Chattanooga, TN; Milan, IL; Feather South, FL; etc. In other words, a bunch of places nobody has ever heard of.

dragonwriter 4y ago
The places that need to replace COBOL devs aging out of the work force with apps still running are among the places least likely to practice age discrimination to start with (and even if they were inclined to, there's not a pipeline of fresh out of college/bootcamp COBOL devs.) (C#/Java have lots more opportunities at the same type of workplaces, so aren't bad choices but also lots more competition at all experience levels and from more traditional career paths; still, late-entrants with relative domain expertise can be quite competitive with pure programmers.)