4 ms·

You'd think Tether would be in favour of something like this as an investor confidence thing but they aren't. I struggle to understand how that can be without i

by s_Hogg 4y ago

You'd think Tether would be in favour of something like this as an investor confidence thing but they aren't. I struggle to understand how that can be without it throwing some doubt on the viability of tether itself. Does anyone know how to square this circle?

forum_ghost 4y ago
finance is huge on secrecy, because the moats are often non-existent and often strategies can be replicated trivially. ask your own pension fund to show terms of every deal they make with your own money. they'll tell you to take a hike, and tether isn't any different here.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  They will tell you to take a hike because you will see that pension fund managers have been obviated by broad market index funds with 0.03% expense ratios and there is no reason to pay a pension fund manager anymore.
- WJW 4y ago
  Are you sure? Because my pension fund (ABP) has this page: https://www.abp.nl/over-abp/duurzaam-en-verantwoord-beleggen/waarin-belegt-abp/ https://www.abp.nl/over-abp/duurzaam-en-verantwoord-beleggen... I found it as result #1 when googling ABP investments. As you can see there are several PDFs listing investments of each category: - External fund managers - Engagements with companies - Overview corporate bonds - Overview nation-state bonds - Stocks - Overview top 100 largest investments All contain detailed lists about the country, instrument invested in, sector and how large the stake is rounded to the nearest million euro. All these lists are updated regularly as changes occur. Nobody is asking Tether to disclose every term of every single deal they make, but making disclosures about the composition of your underlying assets is not a very big deal at all. You can find similar documents for almost every pension fund out there.
  - forum_ghost 4y ago
    >External fund managers full legal agreement of their mandate publicly available to the entire world, Y/N? >Engagements with companies full legal terms of engagement public and available to the entire world, Y/N? You are just listing some public information. Actual source of alpha is a very closely guarded trade secret, and will never be made available to you, or anyone not involved directly. Tether is literally being asked to openly disclose confidential business information to the entire world. They've revealed composition a number of times, they have done an attestation, and none of the other stablecoins have produced an audit either. It's just a witch hunt. composition: https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2021/5/19/254888-16214228104575725_origin.png https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2021/5/19/254888-162... full report: https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/254888-sunil-shah/5593034-tether-assurance-moore-cayman-accountants-marminus-2021minus-2 https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/254888-sunil-shah/5593034... for comparison, report from USDC/Circle: https://www.centre.io/hubfs/pdfs/attestation/2021%20Circle%20Internet%20Examination%20Report%20January%202021%20FINAL.pdf?hsLang=en https://www.centre.io/hubfs/pdfs/attestation/2021%20Circle%2... what is the big issue? money market funds your pension invests in have the same composition as Tether.
    - kasey_junk 4y ago
      Compare your one page graph to the calpers annual report: https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/forms-publications/annual-investment-report-2021.pdf https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/forms-publications/annual-in... That report lists every single bond they have down to the dollar and maturity rating. It lists every hedge fund, vc and other private equity they have on their books. That’s what is normal (and in the us required) for pensions. That you have a different expectation for reporting than other market participants doesn’t make it a witch hunt, quite the opposite your standard is much much lower than average.
      - forum_ghost 4y ago
        Can you provide the precise internal composition of the item "COUNTRYWIDE ASSET BACKED CERTI" on page 66 that has book value of 0? Would be also nice to know how "AP ALTERNATIVE ASSETS (AAA), LP" got wiped out, do you have details on that? These are the funds your pension invested in, and lost everything. Looking forward to you finding out the composition of those funds.
- s_Hogg 4y ago
  I have a financial advisor who does all this for me so as it happens I have 100% clarity regarding what my retirement funds are invested in. Asking a financial services provider to prove they've got the assets they say they have is absolutely table stakes and even required by law in a lot of cases. But not for crypto scams, of course.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  Go to https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/mutual-fund-spotlights/money-market-funds https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/mutual-fund-spotlights.... Pick any fund. Look at the prospectus. Note that there is a link to the "Monthly Holdings Report." [1] Which is a list of every single investment the fund makes, including the CUSIP (basically serial ID) of every bond. If people aren't willing to tell details on what you're invested in, that is considered one of the red flags that you're investing in a Ponzi scheme. [1] I'd link directly, but the final link is a downloaded PDF, so it's not as easy to copy the link.
- kasey_junk 4y ago
  Your pension fund (in the us) must outline their holdings at a minimum yearly and also on demand of a beneficiary.
nmfisher 4y ago
It would be so simple for an actual auditor to verify Tether's holdings. Or, to put it another way - if Tether actually held everything it claimed to hold, it would have no problem arranging an auditor to sign off on it. Given they've resisted so much, the only reasonable inference is that some percentage is bullshit. The real question is how much.

by s_Hogg 4y ago

forum_ghost 4y ago

finance is huge on secrecy, because the moats are often non-existent and often strategies can be replicated trivially. ask your own pension fund to show terms of every deal they make with your own money. they'll tell you to take a hike, and tether isn't any different here.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
They will tell you to take a hike because you will see that pension fund managers have been obviated by broad market index funds with 0.03% expense ratios and there is no reason to pay a pension fund manager anymore.
WJW 4y ago
Are you sure? Because my pension fund (ABP) has this page: https://www.abp.nl/over-abp/duurzaam-en-verantwoord-beleggen/waarin-belegt-abp/ https://www.abp.nl/over-abp/duurzaam-en-verantwoord-beleggen... I found it as result #1 when googling ABP investments. As you can see there are several PDFs listing investments of each category: - External fund managers - Engagements with companies - Overview corporate bonds - Overview nation-state bonds - Stocks - Overview top 100 largest investments All contain detailed lists about the country, instrument invested in, sector and how large the stake is rounded to the nearest million euro. All these lists are updated regularly as changes occur. Nobody is asking Tether to disclose every term of every single deal they make, but making disclosures about the composition of your underlying assets is not a very big deal at all. You can find similar documents for almost every pension fund out there.
- forum_ghost 4y ago
  >External fund managers full legal agreement of their mandate publicly available to the entire world, Y/N? >Engagements with companies full legal terms of engagement public and available to the entire world, Y/N? You are just listing some public information. Actual source of alpha is a very closely guarded trade secret, and will never be made available to you, or anyone not involved directly. Tether is literally being asked to openly disclose confidential business information to the entire world. They've revealed composition a number of times, they have done an attestation, and none of the other stablecoins have produced an audit either. It's just a witch hunt. composition: https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2021/5/19/254888-16214228104575725_origin.png https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2021/5/19/254888-162... full report: https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/254888-sunil-shah/5593034-tether-assurance-moore-cayman-accountants-marminus-2021minus-2 https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/254888-sunil-shah/5593034... for comparison, report from USDC/Circle: https://www.centre.io/hubfs/pdfs/attestation/2021%20Circle%20Internet%20Examination%20Report%20January%202021%20FINAL.pdf?hsLang=en https://www.centre.io/hubfs/pdfs/attestation/2021%20Circle%2... what is the big issue? money market funds your pension invests in have the same composition as Tether.
  - kasey_junk 4y ago
    Compare your one page graph to the calpers annual report: https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/forms-publications/annual-investment-report-2021.pdf https://www.calpers.ca.gov/docs/forms-publications/annual-in... That report lists every single bond they have down to the dollar and maturity rating. It lists every hedge fund, vc and other private equity they have on their books. That’s what is normal (and in the us required) for pensions. That you have a different expectation for reporting than other market participants doesn’t make it a witch hunt, quite the opposite your standard is much much lower than average.
    - forum_ghost 4y ago
      Can you provide the precise internal composition of the item "COUNTRYWIDE ASSET BACKED CERTI" on page 66 that has book value of 0? Would be also nice to know how "AP ALTERNATIVE ASSETS (AAA), LP" got wiped out, do you have details on that? These are the funds your pension invested in, and lost everything. Looking forward to you finding out the composition of those funds.
s_Hogg 4y ago
I have a financial advisor who does all this for me so as it happens I have 100% clarity regarding what my retirement funds are invested in. Asking a financial services provider to prove they've got the assets they say they have is absolutely table stakes and even required by law in a lot of cases. But not for crypto scams, of course.
jcranmer 4y ago
Go to https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/mutual-fund-spotlights/money-market-funds https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/mutual-fund-spotlights.... Pick any fund. Look at the prospectus. Note that there is a link to the "Monthly Holdings Report." [1] Which is a list of every single investment the fund makes, including the CUSIP (basically serial ID) of every bond. If people aren't willing to tell details on what you're invested in, that is considered one of the red flags that you're investing in a Ponzi scheme. [1] I'd link directly, but the final link is a downloaded PDF, so it's not as easy to copy the link.
kasey_junk 4y ago
Your pension fund (in the us) must outline their holdings at a minimum yearly and also on demand of a beneficiary.

nmfisher 4y ago

It would be so simple for an actual auditor to verify Tether's holdings. Or, to put it another way - if Tether actually held everything it claimed to hold, it would have no problem arranging an auditor to sign off on it. Given they've resisted so much, the only reasonable inference is that some percentage is bullshit. The real question is how much.