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I’ve known quite a few people from Netflix, the dream team analogy does seem to be, at least anecdotally somewhat true. They’re somewhat legendary for competin

I’ve known quite a few people from Netflix, the dream team analogy does seem to be, at least anecdotally somewhat true. They’re somewhat legendary for competing with the same engineering talent as Google and paying accordingly. 6 figure hiring bonuses are not uncommon. With respect to the “generous severance”, if you’re engineer who’s being recruited by Netflix and know of their “Dream team” culture where they hire slow and fire fast, you’d have to have some concern about joining that team and fearing that you won’t fit in regardless of skill set. The “generous severance” is there to ease that concern and exists as a hiring tool, not a firing one.

LeanderK 4y ago
What if the soon to be fired-employee is just currently not able to give 100%? Maybe something in his personal life triggered a depression, maybe a death of a close friend, or he just became a dad and needs to invest a lot of energy in his child? Things happen...and life is not predictable. This philosophy strikes me as cruel. Not everything is your fault, sometimes life is just hard and work, especially for anonymous giga-corp, is not all there is.
- chii 4y ago
  > What if the soon to be fired-employee is just currently not able to give 100%? A professional sports person (like a soccer or basketball star) would not be able to give this same excuse, so why would it not be the same in an engineering setting? Netflix wants their workplace to be like pro-sports, where elites complete for the best outcome and be rewarded like so. If you choose to apply for employment at netflix, this is what you're signing up for. There are other positions in other companies, if such an environment is not conducive to your own lifestyle - noone is forcing this onto you. The natural condition of humanity is cruel, and society and civilization hasn't proceeded to the stage where such cruelty don't exist. But right now, there's still at least choice and options for those who don't want to compete this way (with the associated decrease in salary).
  - mLuby 4y ago
    > civilization hasn't proceeded to the stage where such cruelty don't exist. It has in Europe.
    - adrianN 4y ago
      Believe it or not, but occasionally people in Europe are fired too.
  - asdffdsa 4y ago
    This is a bit off topic, but does the "professional sports" analogy really work for tech (e.g. software/hardware) organizations? In sports the game is always the same, and while there may be different play styles or systems the fundamentals are pretty much the same. In tech orgs, a system (potentially composed of dozens of service) can often outgrow their team, especially when there's high attrition and turnover (perhaps because you view each individual software engineer as a highly expendable/fungible "pro sports player"). Seems like a breeding ground for entropy, and compositions of systems built on lost history, chaos, and confusion.
  - __derek__ 4y ago
    > A professional sports person (like a soccer or basketball star) would not be able to give this same excuse, so why would it not be the same in an engineering setting? This situation is pretty common professional sports, actually. For example, Russell Westbrook's salary is higher than either Lebron James or Antonio Davis, and the highest-paid player on the Dallas Mavericks has been out for two months (including all of the playoffs). They have a strong union with guaranteed contracts, though.
  - NeverFade 4y ago
    > A professional sports person (like a soccer or basketball star) would not be able to give this same excuse, so why would it not be the same in an engineering setting? A professional sport star, certainly at "dream team" level, would be compensated far better than any alternative employment they may have. After just a few years at that level, they would have earned such vast amounts that financially they can retire, and any further employment in their role is optional. It's not a big deal if they lose it. Netflix doesn't pay engineers much above their alternatives. They compete for the best talent with the other top employers, and pay about on par or slightly better, which doesn't compensate the engineer for the very transitory nature of their employment. Netflix model is inferior for full-time employees, and they're not paying anywhere near enough to make it worthwhile. They're relying on hype rhetoric to convince naive engineers that they are "star athletes", just like all the startups that used to scam engineers into believing they are "rock stars" and will definitely earn millions upon exit, while in reality underpaying and overworking them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- trunnell 4y ago
  Netflix's keeper test doesn't apply to someone going through a personal problem or other temporary issue. A manager would support them, making sure they get the time off they need. (And Netflix managers are usually very generous and understanding in that regard.) The keeper test is about maintaining a team of great contributors. But the "dream team" doesn't last forever. The metaphor is meant to reinforce that. If you could play for a season with Michael Jordan, Barkley, Ewing, and the other amazing players from the actual 1992 Dream Team -- wouldn't you do it? And if you got cut the next season because there was someone even better than you -- would you regret being on that team? It would probably be a great experience, even if it only lasted a while. This is what the "dream team" idea is about. It's clearly not for everybody, not for every company, and not for every situation. Netflix's culture is all about excellence, and the "dream team" and "keeper test" ideas work well there. I saw it play out first hand.
  - serenitylater 4y ago
  - weq 4y ago
    No! Jordan is famous but bloody lonely. His essentially a degen gambler. The biggest tool you could imagine. But hey, he plays BBall well! To all us on the outside, all i see is wasted talent, locked up, for the money and the prestiege. Who are so smart, they cant even build a profitable product!
  - jjav 4y ago
    > Netflix's keeper test doesn't apply to someone going through a personal problem or other temporary issue. I know for a fact from a first-person connection that this is not true. Get sick and you're out.
- jjav 4y ago
  > This philosophy strikes me as cruel. It is extremely cruel. I have a friend who, while working at Netflix, had a major health problem and was coldly fired for not performing. As if anyone could perform at 110% (required at Netflix) from a hospital bed.
  - LeanderK 4y ago
    Thinking about it, what is really unsettling for me is that it views engineers as a commodity and not humans. Like a tool you just toss away if it's not performing to expectations. The embodiment of human resources, at your disposal and completely replaceable.

LeanderK 4y ago

What if the soon to be fired-employee is just currently not able to give 100%? Maybe something in his personal life triggered a depression, maybe a death of a close friend, or he just became a dad and needs to invest a lot of energy in his child? Things happen...and life is not predictable. This philosophy strikes me as cruel. Not everything is your fault, sometimes life is just hard and work, especially for anonymous giga-corp, is not all there is.

chii 4y ago
> What if the soon to be fired-employee is just currently not able to give 100%? A professional sports person (like a soccer or basketball star) would not be able to give this same excuse, so why would it not be the same in an engineering setting? Netflix wants their workplace to be like pro-sports, where elites complete for the best outcome and be rewarded like so. If you choose to apply for employment at netflix, this is what you're signing up for. There are other positions in other companies, if such an environment is not conducive to your own lifestyle - noone is forcing this onto you. The natural condition of humanity is cruel, and society and civilization hasn't proceeded to the stage where such cruelty don't exist. But right now, there's still at least choice and options for those who don't want to compete this way (with the associated decrease in salary).
- mLuby 4y ago
  > civilization hasn't proceeded to the stage where such cruelty don't exist. It has in Europe.
  - adrianN 4y ago
    Believe it or not, but occasionally people in Europe are fired too.
- asdffdsa 4y ago
  This is a bit off topic, but does the "professional sports" analogy really work for tech (e.g. software/hardware) organizations? In sports the game is always the same, and while there may be different play styles or systems the fundamentals are pretty much the same. In tech orgs, a system (potentially composed of dozens of service) can often outgrow their team, especially when there's high attrition and turnover (perhaps because you view each individual software engineer as a highly expendable/fungible "pro sports player"). Seems like a breeding ground for entropy, and compositions of systems built on lost history, chaos, and confusion.
- __derek__ 4y ago
  > A professional sports person (like a soccer or basketball star) would not be able to give this same excuse, so why would it not be the same in an engineering setting? This situation is pretty common professional sports, actually. For example, Russell Westbrook's salary is higher than either Lebron James or Antonio Davis, and the highest-paid player on the Dallas Mavericks has been out for two months (including all of the playoffs). They have a strong union with guaranteed contracts, though.
- NeverFade 4y ago
  > A professional sports person (like a soccer or basketball star) would not be able to give this same excuse, so why would it not be the same in an engineering setting? A professional sport star, certainly at "dream team" level, would be compensated far better than any alternative employment they may have. After just a few years at that level, they would have earned such vast amounts that financially they can retire, and any further employment in their role is optional. It's not a big deal if they lose it. Netflix doesn't pay engineers much above their alternatives. They compete for the best talent with the other top employers, and pay about on par or slightly better, which doesn't compensate the engineer for the very transitory nature of their employment. Netflix model is inferior for full-time employees, and they're not paying anywhere near enough to make it worthwhile. They're relying on hype rhetoric to convince naive engineers that they are "star athletes", just like all the startups that used to scam engineers into believing they are "rock stars" and will definitely earn millions upon exit, while in reality underpaying and overworking them.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
trunnell 4y ago
Netflix's keeper test doesn't apply to someone going through a personal problem or other temporary issue. A manager would support them, making sure they get the time off they need. (And Netflix managers are usually very generous and understanding in that regard.) The keeper test is about maintaining a team of great contributors. But the "dream team" doesn't last forever. The metaphor is meant to reinforce that. If you could play for a season with Michael Jordan, Barkley, Ewing, and the other amazing players from the actual 1992 Dream Team -- wouldn't you do it? And if you got cut the next season because there was someone even better than you -- would you regret being on that team? It would probably be a great experience, even if it only lasted a while. This is what the "dream team" idea is about. It's clearly not for everybody, not for every company, and not for every situation. Netflix's culture is all about excellence, and the "dream team" and "keeper test" ideas work well there. I saw it play out first hand.
- serenitylater 4y ago
- weq 4y ago
  No! Jordan is famous but bloody lonely. His essentially a degen gambler. The biggest tool you could imagine. But hey, he plays BBall well! To all us on the outside, all i see is wasted talent, locked up, for the money and the prestiege. Who are so smart, they cant even build a profitable product!
- jjav 4y ago
  > Netflix's keeper test doesn't apply to someone going through a personal problem or other temporary issue. I know for a fact from a first-person connection that this is not true. Get sick and you're out.
jjav 4y ago
> This philosophy strikes me as cruel. It is extremely cruel. I have a friend who, while working at Netflix, had a major health problem and was coldly fired for not performing. As if anyone could perform at 110% (required at Netflix) from a hospital bed.
- LeanderK 4y ago
  Thinking about it, what is really unsettling for me is that it views engineers as a commodity and not humans. Like a tool you just toss away if it's not performing to expectations. The embodiment of human resources, at your disposal and completely replaceable.