5 ms·

Smaller screened smartphones aren't a new market that needs to be defined though. Most people know what they are by virtue of having lived through the era that

by toqy 4y ago

Smaller screened smartphones aren't a new market that needs to be defined though. Most people know what they are by virtue of having lived through the era that they were the only choice. And as OP pointed out, Apple makes a smaller screened smartphone, so they exist. In some comment on this post someone said that it accounts for 3% of Apple's phone sales. How big is the group of people that want a smaller smart phone but aren't willing or able to switch to Apple? Who knows. My intuition says not many, but maybe we'll find out through OP's efforts. I'm an iPhone user and the only reason I haven't switched to something like the iPhone Mini is because I want the better camera on the pro's.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Apple's limited success is not only a factor of the screen size but also market positioning. The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. It targets people that have plenty of cash for a flagship but are willing to forego the top tier specs for a smaller size. Apple prefers you just buy the pro. And if you don't have much cash you can get the reheated 2017 iphone 8 with SE slapped on it :) I bet if they made a mini T the price of an SE with a more limited camera and screen spec than the current mini it would take 50% of SE sales away. You can't judge the market viability of one aspect based on a single model.
- hedgehog 4y ago
  Even the small phone user base is probably fragmented between people who want a lower cost phone and people like me that want the Pro or better, just smaller.
  - 8ytecoder 4y ago
    Apple already has the SE for the low cost market. They have positioned the mini as the mid-range. What they're missing is a high-end small phone. I'd happily pay for it.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
      iPhone 13 mini. Having said that, the specs of the SE are nothing to sneeze at.
      - hedgehog 4y ago
        It doesn't have the full camera. Edit: I'm not sure what the disagreement is but it's objectively verifiable that the 13 Mini does not have the same camera setup as the 13 Pro.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - derefr 4y ago
      The current SE isn't a small phone; it's a previous-era-of-design phone. It's a phone from before phones gave you as much screen as would fit on the front face of the body. If you want that, you can just buy any new-old-stock phone from 5 years ago; they're all cheap, they're all that size, and they're all (IMHO) painful to read or watch anything on. A low-cost small phone would be the opposite of the SE: not good-specs, bad-screen; but rather all-screen, bad-specs. An iPhone Mini minus-minus.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Agreed, I think this is not only for the reason of cheap manufacturing (I doubt it's a lot cheaper than just reusing the iPhone XR case). I think it's just a conscious disincentivisation (word?) from Apple to avoid cannibalising their mainline models :) I'm surprised it's so popular, because I really don't miss the bezel. All-screen phones are a great advancement. If I had an iPhone I would seriously miss the fingerprint scanner but this is not an issue on Android, the in-screen option works amazingly well.
- alwillis 4y ago
  The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones I’m typing this on my iPhone 13 mini; saying it’s inferior to the rest of the iPhone 13 is an overstatement. All of the core features are the same as they rest of the line. Ironically it’s the largest iPhone I’ve owned, having upgraded from an iPhone 7 and a 6s before that. There probably won’t be iPhone 14 mini, so I’m glad I was able to get this form factor before I had no choice.
  - reflexco 4y ago
    They really had the room to put a x2 zoom camera on there though... what a shame they didn't.
    - thefourthchime 4y ago
      The biggest issue for me is the battery. The first mini had horrible battery life, I know the 13 is better. The fact is I'm spoiled rotten with the Pro battery life and don't see the size winning me over.
      - yowzadave 4y ago
        Same—I just bought a new iPhone…I thought the mini was right for me, but after three days of using it, it was clear that the battery life was worse than my years-old Pro. So I returned it and got the Pro instead. The other challenge was that I found it hard to go back to the smaller onscreen keyboard and display. I think I was deluded about my vision being as good as it was 10 years ago!
        GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Try swipe typing, it really helps make small screens a lot more comfortable for me. I have one tiny Android phone with 2.5" display and it actually makes that one usable.
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    Wait, is the iPhone Mini larger than an iPhone 6/7/8?! I thought it was smaller.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  > The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. I feel like it being smaller is a factor in it having inferior specs: much easier to fit a better camera etc into a larger body.
- zippergz 4y ago
  Indeed, I desperately want a smaller phone, but I heavily use the camera on my phone and in the end I decided I wasn't willing to give up camera quality for the iPhone Mini. So Apple's data may suggest that I don't want a small phone, but the reality is that I want a small phone that's actually as good as the big ones. No one has offered that.
  - bigiain 4y ago
    My last couple of phone purchases have actually been camera purchases. I got an iPhone XR for the low light performance of the camera, not because I needed a new phone. I got a 13Pro for the cameras and lidar, not because I needed a new phone. My reality is I want a great camera that fits in my pocket and is durable - that also makes calls, runs Signal, streams Spotify/AppleMusic, and has a usable web browser...
    - toqy 4y ago
      Same, I went from original SE to 11 pro max because of camera envy. Maybe once all of my kids are a bit older I won't care as much about the camera though.
kingcharles 4y ago
None of the leaked specs (if real) for iPhone 14 include a "Mini" variant, so it looks like Apple killed theirs. I'm going to buy a 13 Mini because of Apple's long term support, so it should last me a good few years.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I do not care if they do not make a new mini every year. I just want a mini available for purchase, and the 13 mini should be very capable for at least a few more years.
  - usrusr 4y ago
    That might actually be what Apple is doing, skipping mini for 14, but not stopping mini forever. Sony did the same, there where Compacts of Z1, Z3 and Z5.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
Nition 4y ago
> How big is the group of people that want a smaller smart phone but aren't willing or able to switch to Apple? It just feels like surely capturing 100% of the market for premium small Android phones (there really are none right now) must be at least as good as yet another large Android phone entering a market full of large Android phones.
robocat 4y ago
I suspect there are two constraints working against mini mobiles: 1. The industry push for thin due to the consumer dislike of thick. 2. The invisible consumer expectation that smaller mobiles should be cheaper. A mini screen with a fat body (large battery, good camera) is what many functionally oriented people should want, but cost and form will limit consumer desire and make it an extremely niche product?!? Edit: I am thinking more Canon IXUS cross bred with a 20000mAh powerbank and stock Android One. In fact Canon or another reliable camera brand would be the perfect manufacturer. Fat and robust could work: sell the functionally ugly to practical tradesmen type? Unfortunately writer desires thin and light, which I don’t care about. No need for front-facing camera, instead put a 1” (4:3?) screen on the side of the main camera to allow for pointing/framing when doing selfies. Functionally oriented people often have other constraints. I have tight constraints for mobiles: I am price sensitive (I break or lose phones), I want vanilla Android (manufacturer skinned often has broken upgrades & broken privacy & broken features), and I generally won’t buy products from extremely niche brands (unpredictable reliability, & trust issues).
- fomine3 4y ago
  * Small battery capacity * Lower performance due to small battery and poorer heat dissipation * No physical space to put top-tier camera
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    The battery doesn't have to be small if you're okay with moderate thickness. And a lot of power goes to the screen so that cancels out. To the extent that this is true, you're just restating "push for thin" and it's not a separate problem. Lower performance than what? I'm not convinced that's a real issue unless you're trying to make a flagship. Why couldn't you fit a top-tier camera? That's like a square centimeter.
    - robocat 4y ago
      > That's like a square centimeter. I was thinking much larger optics and mechanicals, similar to a PowerShot N (except with modern video specs): Optical image stabilization, 8x optical zoom, 1/2.3" Sensor (6.17mm x 4.55 mm), Maximum aperture F3–5.9, Macro focus range 1cm. A real camera: even though I realise in the past there have been plenty of failed camera-phones in the marketplace! https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+PowerShot+N+Teardown/61682 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+PowerShot+N+Teardown/6... https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_n/specification https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_n/speci...

by toqy 4y ago

GekkePrutser 4y ago

Apple's limited success is not only a factor of the screen size but also market positioning. The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. It targets people that have plenty of cash for a flagship but are willing to forego the top tier specs for a smaller size. Apple prefers you just buy the pro. And if you don't have much cash you can get the reheated 2017 iphone 8 with SE slapped on it :) I bet if they made a mini T the price of an SE with a more limited camera and screen spec than the current mini it would take 50% of SE sales away. You can't judge the market viability of one aspect based on a single model.

hedgehog 4y ago
Even the small phone user base is probably fragmented between people who want a lower cost phone and people like me that want the Pro or better, just smaller.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  Apple already has the SE for the low cost market. They have positioned the mini as the mid-range. What they're missing is a high-end small phone. I'd happily pay for it.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    iPhone 13 mini. Having said that, the specs of the SE are nothing to sneeze at.
    - hedgehog 4y ago
      It doesn't have the full camera. Edit: I'm not sure what the disagreement is but it's objectively verifiable that the 13 Mini does not have the same camera setup as the 13 Pro.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - derefr 4y ago
    The current SE isn't a small phone; it's a previous-era-of-design phone. It's a phone from before phones gave you as much screen as would fit on the front face of the body. If you want that, you can just buy any new-old-stock phone from 5 years ago; they're all cheap, they're all that size, and they're all (IMHO) painful to read or watch anything on. A low-cost small phone would be the opposite of the SE: not good-specs, bad-screen; but rather all-screen, bad-specs. An iPhone Mini minus-minus.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Agreed, I think this is not only for the reason of cheap manufacturing (I doubt it's a lot cheaper than just reusing the iPhone XR case). I think it's just a conscious disincentivisation (word?) from Apple to avoid cannibalising their mainline models :) I'm surprised it's so popular, because I really don't miss the bezel. All-screen phones are a great advancement. If I had an iPhone I would seriously miss the fingerprint scanner but this is not an issue on Android, the in-screen option works amazingly well.
alwillis 4y ago
The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones I’m typing this on my iPhone 13 mini; saying it’s inferior to the rest of the iPhone 13 is an overstatement. All of the core features are the same as they rest of the line. Ironically it’s the largest iPhone I’ve owned, having upgraded from an iPhone 7 and a 6s before that. There probably won’t be iPhone 14 mini, so I’m glad I was able to get this form factor before I had no choice.
- reflexco 4y ago
  They really had the room to put a x2 zoom camera on there though... what a shame they didn't.
  - thefourthchime 4y ago
    The biggest issue for me is the battery. The first mini had horrible battery life, I know the 13 is better. The fact is I'm spoiled rotten with the Pro battery life and don't see the size winning me over.
    - yowzadave 4y ago
      Same—I just bought a new iPhone…I thought the mini was right for me, but after three days of using it, it was clear that the battery life was worse than my years-old Pro. So I returned it and got the Pro instead. The other challenge was that I found it hard to go back to the smaller onscreen keyboard and display. I think I was deluded about my vision being as good as it was 10 years ago!
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Try swipe typing, it really helps make small screens a lot more comfortable for me. I have one tiny Android phone with 2.5" display and it actually makes that one usable.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  Wait, is the iPhone Mini larger than an iPhone 6/7/8?! I thought it was smaller.
nicoburns 4y ago
> The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. I feel like it being smaller is a factor in it having inferior specs: much easier to fit a better camera etc into a larger body.
zippergz 4y ago
Indeed, I desperately want a smaller phone, but I heavily use the camera on my phone and in the end I decided I wasn't willing to give up camera quality for the iPhone Mini. So Apple's data may suggest that I don't want a small phone, but the reality is that I want a small phone that's actually as good as the big ones. No one has offered that.
- bigiain 4y ago
  My last couple of phone purchases have actually been camera purchases. I got an iPhone XR for the low light performance of the camera, not because I needed a new phone. I got a 13Pro for the cameras and lidar, not because I needed a new phone. My reality is I want a great camera that fits in my pocket and is durable - that also makes calls, runs Signal, streams Spotify/AppleMusic, and has a usable web browser...
  - toqy 4y ago
    Same, I went from original SE to 11 pro max because of camera envy. Maybe once all of my kids are a bit older I won't care as much about the camera though.

kingcharles 4y ago

None of the leaked specs (if real) for iPhone 14 include a "Mini" variant, so it looks like Apple killed theirs. I'm going to buy a 13 Mini because of Apple's long term support, so it should last me a good few years.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
I do not care if they do not make a new mini every year. I just want a mini available for purchase, and the 13 mini should be very capable for at least a few more years.
- usrusr 4y ago
  That might actually be what Apple is doing, skipping mini for 14, but not stopping mini forever. Sony did the same, there where Compacts of Z1, Z3 and Z5.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

Nition 4y ago

> How big is the group of people that want a smaller smart phone but aren't willing or able to switch to Apple? It just feels like surely capturing 100% of the market for premium small Android phones (there really are none right now) must be at least as good as yet another large Android phone entering a market full of large Android phones.

robocat 4y ago

I suspect there are two constraints working against mini mobiles: 1. The industry push for thin due to the consumer dislike of thick. 2. The invisible consumer expectation that smaller mobiles should be cheaper. A mini screen with a fat body (large battery, good camera) is what many functionally oriented people should want, but cost and form will limit consumer desire and make it an extremely niche product?!? Edit: I am thinking more Canon IXUS cross bred with a 20000mAh powerbank and stock Android One. In fact Canon or another reliable camera brand would be the perfect manufacturer. Fat and robust could work: sell the functionally ugly to practical tradesmen type? Unfortunately writer desires thin and light, which I don’t care about. No need for front-facing camera, instead put a 1” (4:3?) screen on the side of the main camera to allow for pointing/framing when doing selfies. Functionally oriented people often have other constraints. I have tight constraints for mobiles: I am price sensitive (I break or lose phones), I want vanilla Android (manufacturer skinned often has broken upgrades & broken privacy & broken features), and I generally won’t buy products from extremely niche brands (unpredictable reliability, & trust issues).

fomine3 4y ago
* Small battery capacity * Lower performance due to small battery and poorer heat dissipation * No physical space to put top-tier camera
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  The battery doesn't have to be small if you're okay with moderate thickness. And a lot of power goes to the screen so that cancels out. To the extent that this is true, you're just restating "push for thin" and it's not a separate problem. Lower performance than what? I'm not convinced that's a real issue unless you're trying to make a flagship. Why couldn't you fit a top-tier camera? That's like a square centimeter.
  - robocat 4y ago
    > That's like a square centimeter. I was thinking much larger optics and mechanicals, similar to a PowerShot N (except with modern video specs): Optical image stabilization, 8x optical zoom, 1/2.3" Sensor (6.17mm x 4.55 mm), Maximum aperture F3–5.9, Macro focus range 1cm. A real camera: even though I realise in the past there have been plenty of failed camera-phones in the marketplace! https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+PowerShot+N+Teardown/61682 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+PowerShot+N+Teardown/6... https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_n/specification https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_n/speci...