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> If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical vacation, etc. it makes me feel... good? Those are good things in general, although the tropical vacatio

> If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical vacation, etc. it makes me feel... good? Those are good things in general, although the tropical vacation might make me also feel concerned about the climate. If this would be your genuine reaction, congratulations. You belong to the 0.001% of the population that would feel this way.

laputan_machine 4y ago
If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them? I don't believe that puts me in the minority of people, not a chance.
- bennyp101 4y ago
  An actual friend then sure, but most people I know have like 500+ “friends” so I think people are less likely to have that reaction to everyone in the timeline.
  - laputan_machine 4y ago
    Oh I see yeah we're couched in the language of FB. I meant real friends, I noped out of most social media (ex. HN) in 2017. I don't miss it!
    - bennyp101 4y ago
      Same (apart from a fake FB profile so I know what's happening in the local village groups). I never really had a problem with FB, just the constant cringy posts made me leave! But dumping Twitter a couple of years ago was the best thing I ever did - it was just making me angry every time I started browsing it!
- mojzu 4y ago
  Personally I'm happy when good things are happening for family, friends and other people, but depending on my mood it can also trigger feelings of FOMO/anxiety (why isn't that happening for me, what am I missing, etc.). My guess is depending on the person and their current state that falling into a pattern of focussing on the latter rather then the former is easier when using social media. Which can then be a bit of a vicious cycle because cutting yourself off from social media may also mean you miss events that you could have participated in
- tdudzik 4y ago
  I think you can feel great for them and bad for yourself at the same time
  - emteycz 4y ago
    But why would I? It's not like they took something from me. I am the lord of my destiny. And how is it in any way different from the same people telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social media has anything to do with this.
    - k_sze 4y ago
      Maybe you’re lucky to not be plagued by inferiority complex and/or impostor syndrome.
      - emteycz 4y ago
        Perhaps, but then why blame social media and not these disorders?
        k_sze 4y ago
        I believe the argument would be that social media exacerbates the problem.
        emteycz 4y ago
        But does it exacerbate the problem more than other ways of social interaction? As opposed to a real life social interaction, I can simply hit Unfollow on Facebook (so we stay Friends but I don't see your posts unless I look for them)...
        k_sze 4y ago
        Maybe social media gives you a much more concentrated feed of things that can trigger your inferiority complex, compared to normal, real-life social interactions? And if you have to resort to unfollowing, you’re basically agreeing that it’s a problem.
- chenxi9649 4y ago
  I don't think you're in the minority either. We experience joy from the joy of those around us. I think the disagreement here mostly stems from a different definition of "friend". For most ppl, the friends they see on their FB/IG feed aren't actually "friends"... but more like acquaintances. Often times they're people that you've only met a few times and haven't seen in many years. Though, even with close friends, sometimes one can't help but compare. And since social media only highlight the highlights, you'll naturally feel bad when comparisons happen. Seems that with apps like BeReal/Locket taking off in the GenZ market this is starting to shift a little.
  - id 4y ago
    But even when it comes to acquaintances, when I hear about their great new job or vacation, I don't feel envious or bad. I compare myself to other people, yes, and of course I'd like to have some of the things I see, but not to the point that I would feel bad. Does every story about someone being successful make you feel bad? I doubt it, as that is not my personal experience at all.
    - clausewitz 4y ago
      You keep grouping envy with inherently negative mindsets. Sometimes envy is just envy. As in, "damn, John is married with kids and a great job, and I'm still single and scraping by, I gotta get my shit together". I am not upset that John has these things, I am happy my friend John is happy. It also served as a reminder of what I want for myself, and thus, my envy is a motivator.
      - id 4y ago
        This is not envy in my opinion. You are not upset, you are happy John is happy, where is the envy exactly? You recognizing that he has something you don't?
- k_sze 4y ago
  One could be “happy”* for a friend and also feel shitty about themself. “Damn. Matthew has changed jobs 3 times in the past 5 years already, each time to a better paying job. Look at you. You’re still stuck in this shitty job because you suck.” This is literally the kind of thought I have had in the past. [*] Are you “happy” in a polite way? Or are you genuinely happy?
  - laputan_machine 4y ago
    Genuinely happy, of course! I want to see my friends and family succeed in life and enjoy it. I don't feel like a lesser person in any way, I feel proud of them.
    - amelius 4y ago
      What kind of therapy is recommended to get into this state of being?
      - orzig 4y ago
        Take it or leave it, Metta meditation is pretty squarely aimed at that. I’ve had only the tiniest bits of success, but trying a book/video/app is a ton cheaper+easier than therapy!
      - tappio 4y ago
        Sorry, it's only available for 0.0001% of population and unfortunately you are not one of the lucky ones. Fortunately, empathy and epistemological pluralism can make your life bearable.
    - sanitycheck 4y ago
      I'd feel exactly the same way as you about that, and if we truly are in a tiny minority perhaps that does explain a lot about the world.
    - johnnymorgan 4y ago
      You've never felt Envy towards someone? I kind of find that hard to believe. that was all OP was referring too and it's well documented. Honestly you come off as dishonest in this convo as it's quiet a normal emotion to feel and it's not negative per say, it can lead to negative actions but can also push people to do better. "It doesn't matter if the slight is real or not, its the perception of the person that matters" -- Jimmy Hoffa
- conjectures 4y ago
  Yeah, tbh 'friends' are people for whom, when good stuff happens to them I feel happy about that.
- sdevonoes 4y ago
  > If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them? We can feel happy (for them) and unsatisfied (with ourselves) at the same time. Multiply that by N, and well, that's a recipe for disaster (at least for me). I know, I know, we shall not compare ourselves with others, but hey, I'm not a machine, I have my imperfections which I am polishing from time to time, but in the meanwhile social media makes everything worse in average (for me).
  - prawn 4y ago
    I travel more than average so I am happy seeing friends going on trips. It's rare that their trip looks better than what I've just done or have planned next. But I could absolutely see how someone might spectate a feed full of holidays and feel from the aggregate like everyone else is constantly travelling, while they grind away at work.
    - cableshaft 4y ago
      Meanwhile my family's barely travelled the past three years due to Covid concerns, tighter budgets (wife's income got severely impacted from the pandemic for a while, while this year we had to unexpectedly pay a good vacation's worth of taxes), and having to use PTO for other unrelated things. Most I've done is a few weekend trips to neighboring states.
    - malauxyeux 4y ago
      Since this is about the effect of social media on mood, I'll chime in to say that it's the opposite for me. Seeing people conspicuously consume extravagant leisure travel – and the associated resources – brings to mind global warming and how few people actually give a damn about it in any meaningful way. It also reminds me of what brazen liars many people are. In cases where I've known the people posting Facebook/Insta content about their amazing trips, in about half of those, the reality is that the trip was far less than amazing than their posts would suggest. As an example, one woman I know took her family across the Pacific to Thailand on a two-week vacation. By their accounts, they had a pretty rotten time, even considering moving their return date forward. But, the Facebook narrative was glowing. Four years later, the woman's Facebook cover photo is of a Thai Buddhist temple from that trip. (She's not a Buddhist. The photo is purely for aesthetics and social signaling.) It seems to me that this kind of behavior feeds into a loop that encourages other people to consume finite resources and then post about their "amazing" (though often non-amazing) trips. And so the cycle continues. And that really gets me down. I don't go on Facebook very often.
- weatherlite 4y ago
  A lot of this depends on how one's life is going. It is easy and natural to be genuinely happy for others when you are satisfied with your own life. But if I became unemployed and my friend got into Google then yeah...happiness level will be limited. There is a sound evolutionary explanation on why that is so.
  - id 4y ago
    This sure plays a big role, I agree. Maybe I would feel some envy in that example, but I would also not let it consume me, and still feel happy for my friend at the same time.
- jtbayly 4y ago
  “Every time a friend succeeds, I die a little.” Gore Vidal This is not a rare feeling.
- luxuryballs 4y ago
  Yeah I’m with you, I think the response itself might be an indicator of a certain personality type or if negative then a clue of unhealthy thinking habits.
ycombinete 4y ago
I once heard someone say, "nothing in life hurts more than the success of a friend"
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  That is a truly warped mindset.
  - weatherlite 4y ago
    Most of us commenting here live in competitive, capitalistic societies and a lot of our sense of self worth and self esteem comes from comparison (mostly comparing to our friends, colleagues and siblings) - and the metrics as we all know are stuff like career/money and other social status metrics. Feelings of envy are completely involuntary btw so there is no need to pretend like feeling them or not feeling is some kind of moral virtue - you don't control what you feel or don't feel. It sounds reasonable to me to speculate that these feelings have an evolutionary basis - e.g when you were envious of your neighbor's cave you felt crappy and worked harder on your own cave, thus increasing your own survival rate and the prevalence of envious genes. We are a biological creature designed for survival and envy seems very important to me in achieving it. Does that mean we have to be slaves to our genes? I hope not. People like Sam Harris and others offer all kinds of methods to detach and "win" over our biology.
    - throwawaycuriou 4y ago
      While feelings may be involuntary, this does not mean we are beholden to them. Maybe envy is what happens when a consciousness is discontent and allows these feelings to overpower.
      - weatherlite 4y ago
        envy: "a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck" So it's just a feeling. What you do with it (actions) is up to you, most people don't act upon those feelings in any noticeable way. But if we are being honest with ourselves constant feelings of envy often do lead to a deteriorating relationship (usually in the form of the person feeling envious choosing to distance himself from whomever he's feeling envious of), simply for the fact that feeling envious feels like crap - and when you are feeling envious of a person you actually care about it feels double crap (you feel envious and guilty at the same time).
tappio 4y ago
I feel content with my life and I'm genuinely happy when my friends accomplish something. I can't remember when I was seriously envious last time. Sometimes, there may be a moment when I feel slight envy, but then I realize that they decided to put effort into that, and I put my effort into something else. Time is limited. Everyone has problems; ups and downs. I've mostly quit social media because the majority of active people are not interesting, it's full of ad-garbage and heated up debates about dis-interesting topics. I guess I'm also in the 0.0001%. Though, I do think it's much higher than that. The dissatisfied people are just the most vocal.
- ss2003 4y ago
  Hacker News is social media
  - rmbyrro 4y ago
    Come on folks, calling social something as nerdy as HN is hell of a stretch...
    - mitchdoogle 4y ago
      Nerds are some of the most social people - they love talking to other nerds
  - sodality2 4y ago
    It's a news forum. Only loosely does it fit in "social media". Would you call reddit.com/r/technews or alike a "social media"?
    - sorry_outta_gas 4y ago
      yes
    - madeofpalk 4y ago
      ...yes. Reddit is a social media website. HN is a small, niche social media website.
cortesoft 4y ago
Are you sure it is that rare? I find it shocking that most people don't feel joy when the people they care about are happy. My assumption is that depressed people would feel worse, but people who are generally happy themselves would feel happy when someone else is feeling happy. Where do you get your assumption that only 1 in 100,000 people are happy for others? The fact that there are at least two people who feel this way commenting in this chat seems to imply your numbers are off. I don't think the percentage of depressed people in the world is that high.
sleepdreamy 4y ago
Agreed. Majority of people are jealous creatures. It's embedded into American individualism/Capitalism. It's an end sum game of who can acquire more money/resources if we break away all the bullshit. I don't share my wins because the majority of people are jealous creatures

laputan_machine 4y ago

If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them? I don't believe that puts me in the minority of people, not a chance.

bennyp101 4y ago
An actual friend then sure, but most people I know have like 500+ “friends” so I think people are less likely to have that reaction to everyone in the timeline.
- laputan_machine 4y ago
  Oh I see yeah we're couched in the language of FB. I meant real friends, I noped out of most social media (ex. HN) in 2017. I don't miss it!
  - bennyp101 4y ago
    Same (apart from a fake FB profile so I know what's happening in the local village groups). I never really had a problem with FB, just the constant cringy posts made me leave! But dumping Twitter a couple of years ago was the best thing I ever did - it was just making me angry every time I started browsing it!
mojzu 4y ago
Personally I'm happy when good things are happening for family, friends and other people, but depending on my mood it can also trigger feelings of FOMO/anxiety (why isn't that happening for me, what am I missing, etc.). My guess is depending on the person and their current state that falling into a pattern of focussing on the latter rather then the former is easier when using social media. Which can then be a bit of a vicious cycle because cutting yourself off from social media may also mean you miss events that you could have participated in
tdudzik 4y ago
I think you can feel great for them and bad for yourself at the same time
- emteycz 4y ago
  But why would I? It's not like they took something from me. I am the lord of my destiny. And how is it in any way different from the same people telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social media has anything to do with this.
  - k_sze 4y ago
    Maybe you’re lucky to not be plagued by inferiority complex and/or impostor syndrome.
    - emteycz 4y ago
      Perhaps, but then why blame social media and not these disorders?
      - k_sze 4y ago
        I believe the argument would be that social media exacerbates the problem.
        emteycz 4y ago
        But does it exacerbate the problem more than other ways of social interaction? As opposed to a real life social interaction, I can simply hit Unfollow on Facebook (so we stay Friends but I don't see your posts unless I look for them)...
        k_sze 4y ago
        Maybe social media gives you a much more concentrated feed of things that can trigger your inferiority complex, compared to normal, real-life social interactions? And if you have to resort to unfollowing, you’re basically agreeing that it’s a problem.
chenxi9649 4y ago
I don't think you're in the minority either. We experience joy from the joy of those around us. I think the disagreement here mostly stems from a different definition of "friend". For most ppl, the friends they see on their FB/IG feed aren't actually "friends"... but more like acquaintances. Often times they're people that you've only met a few times and haven't seen in many years. Though, even with close friends, sometimes one can't help but compare. And since social media only highlight the highlights, you'll naturally feel bad when comparisons happen. Seems that with apps like BeReal/Locket taking off in the GenZ market this is starting to shift a little.
- id 4y ago
  But even when it comes to acquaintances, when I hear about their great new job or vacation, I don't feel envious or bad. I compare myself to other people, yes, and of course I'd like to have some of the things I see, but not to the point that I would feel bad. Does every story about someone being successful make you feel bad? I doubt it, as that is not my personal experience at all.
  - clausewitz 4y ago
    You keep grouping envy with inherently negative mindsets. Sometimes envy is just envy. As in, "damn, John is married with kids and a great job, and I'm still single and scraping by, I gotta get my shit together". I am not upset that John has these things, I am happy my friend John is happy. It also served as a reminder of what I want for myself, and thus, my envy is a motivator.
    - id 4y ago
      This is not envy in my opinion. You are not upset, you are happy John is happy, where is the envy exactly? You recognizing that he has something you don't?
k_sze 4y ago
One could be “happy”* for a friend and also feel shitty about themself. “Damn. Matthew has changed jobs 3 times in the past 5 years already, each time to a better paying job. Look at you. You’re still stuck in this shitty job because you suck.” This is literally the kind of thought I have had in the past. [*] Are you “happy” in a polite way? Or are you genuinely happy?
- laputan_machine 4y ago
  Genuinely happy, of course! I want to see my friends and family succeed in life and enjoy it. I don't feel like a lesser person in any way, I feel proud of them.
  - amelius 4y ago
    What kind of therapy is recommended to get into this state of being?
    - orzig 4y ago
      Take it or leave it, Metta meditation is pretty squarely aimed at that. I’ve had only the tiniest bits of success, but trying a book/video/app is a ton cheaper+easier than therapy!
    - tappio 4y ago
      Sorry, it's only available for 0.0001% of population and unfortunately you are not one of the lucky ones. Fortunately, empathy and epistemological pluralism can make your life bearable.
  - sanitycheck 4y ago
    I'd feel exactly the same way as you about that, and if we truly are in a tiny minority perhaps that does explain a lot about the world.
  - johnnymorgan 4y ago
    You've never felt Envy towards someone? I kind of find that hard to believe. that was all OP was referring too and it's well documented. Honestly you come off as dishonest in this convo as it's quiet a normal emotion to feel and it's not negative per say, it can lead to negative actions but can also push people to do better. "It doesn't matter if the slight is real or not, its the perception of the person that matters" -- Jimmy Hoffa
conjectures 4y ago
Yeah, tbh 'friends' are people for whom, when good stuff happens to them I feel happy about that.
sdevonoes 4y ago
> If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them? We can feel happy (for them) and unsatisfied (with ourselves) at the same time. Multiply that by N, and well, that's a recipe for disaster (at least for me). I know, I know, we shall not compare ourselves with others, but hey, I'm not a machine, I have my imperfections which I am polishing from time to time, but in the meanwhile social media makes everything worse in average (for me).
- prawn 4y ago
  I travel more than average so I am happy seeing friends going on trips. It's rare that their trip looks better than what I've just done or have planned next. But I could absolutely see how someone might spectate a feed full of holidays and feel from the aggregate like everyone else is constantly travelling, while they grind away at work.
  - cableshaft 4y ago
    Meanwhile my family's barely travelled the past three years due to Covid concerns, tighter budgets (wife's income got severely impacted from the pandemic for a while, while this year we had to unexpectedly pay a good vacation's worth of taxes), and having to use PTO for other unrelated things. Most I've done is a few weekend trips to neighboring states.
  - malauxyeux 4y ago
    Since this is about the effect of social media on mood, I'll chime in to say that it's the opposite for me. Seeing people conspicuously consume extravagant leisure travel – and the associated resources – brings to mind global warming and how few people actually give a damn about it in any meaningful way. It also reminds me of what brazen liars many people are. In cases where I've known the people posting Facebook/Insta content about their amazing trips, in about half of those, the reality is that the trip was far less than amazing than their posts would suggest. As an example, one woman I know took her family across the Pacific to Thailand on a two-week vacation. By their accounts, they had a pretty rotten time, even considering moving their return date forward. But, the Facebook narrative was glowing. Four years later, the woman's Facebook cover photo is of a Thai Buddhist temple from that trip. (She's not a Buddhist. The photo is purely for aesthetics and social signaling.) It seems to me that this kind of behavior feeds into a loop that encourages other people to consume finite resources and then post about their "amazing" (though often non-amazing) trips. And so the cycle continues. And that really gets me down. I don't go on Facebook very often.
weatherlite 4y ago
A lot of this depends on how one's life is going. It is easy and natural to be genuinely happy for others when you are satisfied with your own life. But if I became unemployed and my friend got into Google then yeah...happiness level will be limited. There is a sound evolutionary explanation on why that is so.
- id 4y ago
  This sure plays a big role, I agree. Maybe I would feel some envy in that example, but I would also not let it consume me, and still feel happy for my friend at the same time.
jtbayly 4y ago
“Every time a friend succeeds, I die a little.” Gore Vidal This is not a rare feeling.
luxuryballs 4y ago
Yeah I’m with you, I think the response itself might be an indicator of a certain personality type or if negative then a clue of unhealthy thinking habits.

ycombinete 4y ago

I once heard someone say, "nothing in life hurts more than the success of a friend"

SyzygistSix 4y ago
That is a truly warped mindset.
- weatherlite 4y ago
  Most of us commenting here live in competitive, capitalistic societies and a lot of our sense of self worth and self esteem comes from comparison (mostly comparing to our friends, colleagues and siblings) - and the metrics as we all know are stuff like career/money and other social status metrics. Feelings of envy are completely involuntary btw so there is no need to pretend like feeling them or not feeling is some kind of moral virtue - you don't control what you feel or don't feel. It sounds reasonable to me to speculate that these feelings have an evolutionary basis - e.g when you were envious of your neighbor's cave you felt crappy and worked harder on your own cave, thus increasing your own survival rate and the prevalence of envious genes. We are a biological creature designed for survival and envy seems very important to me in achieving it. Does that mean we have to be slaves to our genes? I hope not. People like Sam Harris and others offer all kinds of methods to detach and "win" over our biology.
  - throwawaycuriou 4y ago
    While feelings may be involuntary, this does not mean we are beholden to them. Maybe envy is what happens when a consciousness is discontent and allows these feelings to overpower.
    - weatherlite 4y ago
      envy: "a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck" So it's just a feeling. What you do with it (actions) is up to you, most people don't act upon those feelings in any noticeable way. But if we are being honest with ourselves constant feelings of envy often do lead to a deteriorating relationship (usually in the form of the person feeling envious choosing to distance himself from whomever he's feeling envious of), simply for the fact that feeling envious feels like crap - and when you are feeling envious of a person you actually care about it feels double crap (you feel envious and guilty at the same time).

tappio 4y ago

I feel content with my life and I'm genuinely happy when my friends accomplish something. I can't remember when I was seriously envious last time. Sometimes, there may be a moment when I feel slight envy, but then I realize that they decided to put effort into that, and I put my effort into something else. Time is limited. Everyone has problems; ups and downs. I've mostly quit social media because the majority of active people are not interesting, it's full of ad-garbage and heated up debates about dis-interesting topics. I guess I'm also in the 0.0001%. Though, I do think it's much higher than that. The dissatisfied people are just the most vocal.

ss2003 4y ago
Hacker News is social media
- rmbyrro 4y ago
  Come on folks, calling social something as nerdy as HN is hell of a stretch...
  - mitchdoogle 4y ago
    Nerds are some of the most social people - they love talking to other nerds
- sodality2 4y ago
  It's a news forum. Only loosely does it fit in "social media". Would you call reddit.com/r/technews or alike a "social media"?
  - sorry_outta_gas 4y ago
    yes
  - madeofpalk 4y ago
    ...yes. Reddit is a social media website. HN is a small, niche social media website.

cortesoft 4y ago

Are you sure it is that rare? I find it shocking that most people don't feel joy when the people they care about are happy. My assumption is that depressed people would feel worse, but people who are generally happy themselves would feel happy when someone else is feeling happy. Where do you get your assumption that only 1 in 100,000 people are happy for others? The fact that there are at least two people who feel this way commenting in this chat seems to imply your numbers are off. I don't think the percentage of depressed people in the world is that high.

sleepdreamy 4y ago

Agreed. Majority of people are jealous creatures. It's embedded into American individualism/Capitalism. It's an end sum game of who can acquire more money/resources if we break away all the bullshit. I don't share my wins because the majority of people are jealous creatures