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It's such a shame that there isn't more research in this area. There are so many seemingly wondrous effects on human health that would need thourugh testing. A

• TimSchumann 4y ago
  I really think a 7 day fast should be 'mandatory reading' as far as life experience goes. You learn a lot about yourself. Also echo the mental clarity side of fasting. The weight loss was great, but how I felt was even better. The crazy thing is, if you can get to 7 days, anything past that is just mental and you can go as long as you have the body fat to sustain the fast, provided you're keeping an eye on your electrolytes and not drinking too much water.
  • egeozcan 4y ago
    I'm not sure if starting something like a 7-day fast without medical supervision is a good idea, and I'm also not sure if any medical professional would allow you to do that, just thinking out loud. Don't you think it's too dangerous to name it essential life experience and recommend it to random people on the internet? I'm really asking, I'm not knowledgeable about this at all, and my questions stem from pure gut feeling.
    • milchek 4y ago
      I also question if 7 days is safe for most. I don't recall exactly when and a quick search now yields a lot of random gimmicky fasting product sales sites with blog posts written to generate traffic that aren't scientific enough, but I do recall that there is a point (after 72 hours?) where your body starts breaking down muscle and that prolonged fasting is dangerous as your organs get hit next? Perhaps someone here with medical experience can chime in, but I agree 7 days seems a bit extreme for most people.
      • TimSchumann 4y ago
        I lost zero noticeable lean muscle mass on my 60 day fast, at least no more than I would have sitting on the couch doing nothing. There's just not a metabolic pathway for breaking down muscle/organ tissue for energy when you have adequate fat stores. We would have died off as a species a long time ago if that were the case. In the grand scheme of things, if you have the body fat, 7 days is nothing for a fast. Edit: To those asking, yes. I fasted for 60 days, water and electrolytes, no calories.
        • CamelRocketFish 4y ago
          When you say 60 day fast, are you saying you didn’t eat for 60 days and just drank water?
          • brodouevencode 4y ago
            https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27619297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27619297 I remember his post from a few months back - found it rather inspiring.
            • CamelRocketFish 4y ago
              Thanks a lot for linking that @brodouevencode
        • pid-1 4y ago
          Did you exercise or work during this period?
          • TimSchumann 4y ago
            Once-ish a week there was Light lifting, think moving a whole trees worth of firewood or a light day on a family farm. Quite frequently I hit over 10k steps/day on my step tracker, sometimes double that. I live in the middle of a major city and walk everywhere, and this was before work from home. If you’re looking for exercise/fasting advice check out my fat per unit time post elsewhere in this thread.
    • TimSchumann 4y ago
      I feel 100% confident, based on my experience, in saying that almost any healthy adult has the ability to fast for 7 days without any negative consequences to their short term or long term health. In fact, I'd say there's only positives. Obviously if you feel differently, talk with your doctor. I am not a doctor, and this is not medical advice. I thought that went without saying on the internet, but just to be extra careful, there it is. Couple of caveats in the almost. Pregnancy, Eating Disorders, Elite Athletes functioning at under 5% bodyfat, and again the key word being _healthy_ here. If you have any kind of condition, disorder, disease, etc. obviously talk to a medical professional. Most people just don't have the desire to do it, and if you're not used to fasting and eating a standard diet, the first few days will make you feel terrible both physically and mentally. Just like anything, it gets easier with practice.
      • wutbrodo 4y ago
        > If you have any kind of condition, disorder, disease, etc. obviously talk to a medical professional. That's sort of the rub in cavalierly recommending things to the general population, even when they're only somewhat extreme. There are plenty of undiagnosed conditions out there, and the further you move from the center of the distribution, the more you're going to sweep up potential risk in ways that aren't easily caught with a simple "not applicable if". I say this as someone who fasts pretty often, though usually not more than 2 days. It's the same reason I wouldn't recommend everyone go out and take 200 mcg of LSD, "unless you have a mental health condition". This world of perfect information about one's own health that you're imagining simply doesn't exist. (Again, I say this as someone who thinks LSD is wonderful and salutary and has recommended it to many many friends in person with the appropriate personalized caveats).
    • lm28469 4y ago
      > I'm not sure if starting something like a 7-day fast without medical supervision is a good idea I'm not sure starting a western diet without medical supervision is a better idea given 75% of the west is overweight or obese. Unless you have medical conditions a 7 days fast is a walk in the park in term of health
    • brodouevencode 4y ago
      This is a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-dont situation. If OP says you should fast and someone gets hurt, that's bad. If OP says you shouldn't fast then what gains could have been made in that lost time. A better way of looking at it is to take it incrementally * skipping breakfast * skipping breakfast and lunch * skipping a whole day * eating one meal every two days * eating one meal every three days * ...you get the point... I don't think OP would advocate just jumping right into it. Start small, work up from there, listen to your body. You wouldn't jump right into running a full marathon.
      • TimSchumann 4y ago
        Exactly right, to all of this advice. I believe I say multiple times in this thread nobody should just jump in and do 60 days, however I believe anyone (caveat-ed up thread) can 'jump in' and do 7 days at any point in their life. It won't be easy, it'll be especially hard if you've never fasted before and are on a standard diet, but it won't be dangerous. It'll just probably be the most difficult physical and mental thing you've ever done. Also, thanks for linking to my spreadsheet up there.
    • m348e912 4y ago
      You bring up some interesting points. I've dabbled with fasting in the past and it seems to be relatively safe and beneficial up to 10 days but there are two mistakes I see people make. Mistake 1: Drinking pure water. Your body does need some specific minerals even when fasting. Cole Robinson, a fasting focused youtuber (who is not for everyone), has shared a Magnesium, Sodium, Potassium, Sodium Bicarbonate & Water recipe he calls Snake Juice that keeps electrolytes steady during a fast. Mistake 2: Drinking liquids that break the fast. I've watched youtube videos of fasters add things like diet soda, gatorade, and even jello to their fast. That defeats the whole purpose and negates any positive effect.
      • godshatter 4y ago
        Diet sodas get a bad rap and for good reason, but I've been unable to stick with anything other than diet soda long term (though I've tried multiple times). I know that diet sodas can spike blood sugar in some people, but it doesn't break me out of ketosis when fasting. YMMV.
        • m348e912 4y ago
          Just my perspective, but I think diet soda certainly breaks a fast. I can see how it could potentially not affect ketosis, but as far as fasting goes, water & minerals are truly the way to go. I will also concede a true "water" fast makes the fast much harder, although I think that's part of the experience. It's not supposed to be easy.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  • HanMei_333 4y ago
    > The crazy thing is, if you can get to 7 days, anything past that is just mental and you can go as long as you have the body fat to sustain the fast, It's not that easy. You have to properly substitute electrolytes - sodium, potassium and magnesium. And that is almost impossible without small doses of carbs. My longest fasting was 42 days. I did 28 days three times before. I'm fasting more or less regularly (once per year) for about 25 years. Don't do very long fasting without guidance of a doctor. Your heart needs properly balanced electrolytes. EDIT: I've just seen your other comments here also underlining the need of electrolytes. I still leave my comment here for the other readers ...
  • michaelbrave 4y ago
    I would say there are some things to watch for if doing long term fasts, one is salt and potassium levels to prevent heart attacks, especailly true for those of us who are on the larger side, and especially as one get's closer to say the 20 day mark. A week or two probably wouldn't kill anyone if they have the fat stores, but a heart attack prompted by lack of salts is a potential concern.
• seer 4y ago
  While I’ve done similar fasting myself, with the same wondrous effects you describe, I want to point out that it seems this might be a lot harder to do for young women (in child bearing age). My partner tried to replicate what I did since I was hyping it so much, and failed miserably. Later we learned that the female body reacts much more violently to the lack of calories than male ones, and its a lot harder for them. Or maybe she had other compounding factors. While she couldn’t do the several day fast, we found out that it was quite feasible to do the “one meal per day” thing, which shares a lot of the health benefits, and its a lot more forgiving.
  • mahathu 4y ago
    I'm kind of doing "one meal per day" right now, not because I'm fasting on purpose but just because I don't enjoy eating (or cooking) more than once in a day. I mean I like to cook but doing it for over an hour every day just becomes a chore. I was under the impression that this was really unhealthy though. My BMI is 19 so I'm close to being underweight. Isn't this unhealthy? Do people fast and not lose weight?
    • strogonoff 4y ago
      I’m sure many would be quick to jump to numbers on how much you are supposed to consume/burn in a day, but I really don’t think eating too little or too much is by itself an indicator. The underlying psychological issues and associated stresses is what IMO qualifies as “unhealthy”, in which case corresponding under- or over-eating could result in malnourishment or excess weight[0]. However, in absence of these issues or other factors suppressing your body’s hunger/satiety messaging, not eating some “standard amount” shouldn’t be an issue on its own[1]. I happen to know a person who fasts routinely. In case of that person it doesn’t seem to be motivated by hidden psychological issues (he does not strike me as a person who could be suffering from body dysmorphia/anorexia) but by a conscious health choice. As an example of his logic, recently he got COVID and from his words he “simply” didn’t eat for two days and was right back on his feet feeling great. It’s not my place to question his choices, and I myself try to space meals to spend 14–16 hours without food every day since it seems to leave me feeling better, so it was surprising to hear but not too outlandish. He is not bulky but not skinnier than me either[2]. (I’m not a doctor, but from a cursory check medicine does seem to classify eating disorders as “expressive”, i.e. indicative of underlying issues. I don’t know how medicine treats under-eating without a cause, I certainly hope they don’t try to force-“treat” someone to make them eat at a level medicine considers “normal”.) [0] For the record, I don’t think one can truly address those root causes just by eating less or more. [1] In fact IIRC lower metabolic rates have been correlated with longer lifespans, at least in mice and in snails if not in humans. [2] I’m slightly underweight, and can eat quite a bit without gaining much weight. My sister is similar, and she quickly gets low blood sugar shakes if she doesn’t eat enough. I guess it’s a sign of fast metabolism.
• hi41 4y ago
  I have tried fasting by skipping breakfast and I have mostly failed because I am unable to endure when hunger strikes. I am interested to learn the mental methods you use to over that struggle.
  • hsn915 4y ago
    This is what helped me - your milage may vary. 1) Remove from your mind the idea that huner is suffering. It's all in your head. It's merely a mild discomfort. If you ate last night and woke up in the morning, you are not hungry. You are just used to eat in the morning. Your body will not suffer any thing from skipping breakfast. It alerady has more than enough energy storage. It was designed to tap into it. 2) Surround yourself in a virtual environment where fasting and accepting hunger is the norm and expcted and obvious thing to do. Read blogs about fasting. Watch youtube videos about fasting. Read books about fasting. Watch how people who consistently fast are healthy and fit. 3) Understand that there are two types of pleasure. Fleeting pleasures, and lasting pleasures. The fleeting pleasure are the sensual. They are momentary and quickly go away. If you spend your life chasing fleeting pleasures, you will be miserable. Lasting pleasures - if you can call them so - are mental states. Contentment. Feeling in control of your life. These don't come from things. They come from what you value and the way you conduct yourself in the world. If you have no value, you will be controlled by your desires. Some people think this is freedom: to do whatever you desire. To me, it's slavery. Because when you follow this path your life will be miserable. Some people try to cheat by pretending that their misery is actually happiness. You see it in the people who insist that fat is healthy and beautfil and hot! 4) Understand that your mind is distributed. Even if you resolve to fasting, there will be some component of your mind that really really wants to just keep eating. Sometimes it might come out and win. Accept that such a thing could happen. When it does happen, don't be too hard on yoruself. Try to understand why it's happening. But anyway, go back right away. Understand that many other components of your mind want to continue doing the right thing.
  • brodouevencode 4y ago
    It's been pretty simple for me: just get busy. Wake up, get ready for work, and go. It's tough with kids though because we make them breakfast here and the temptation is real but if I put time boundaries on myself (up at 6, out the door at 6:30) then the fake stress forces me to get out the door. Once I'm on my way to work I really don't think about it. The only thing I consume before lunch is black coffee, and that seems to fix any hunger pangs.
• moonchrome 4y ago
  >It's such a shame that there isn't more research in this area. From what I've seen there is actually research into it and the weight loss/fitness benefits don't seem to be any better than any other calorie restriction when equating calories (slightly worse for muscle mass when combined with exercise in one study IIRC), and other claims seem overblown. Layne Norton has a couple of good study reviews (eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PyBoKSv2tI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PyBoKSv2tI)
  • warble 4y ago
    You're right, the weight loss per calorie restricted is about the same. That's not the point, it's about feeling better, being healthier and for IF, the lifestyle makes it easier to manage your sugar intake, calorie intake and overall health.
    • moonchrome 4y ago
      Sure, but I think there were some studies that looked at adherence and it didn't seem different to other diets there as well - but I could be misremembering. That being said - this is highly individual stuff - even if something doesn't work for 99% of people - it doesn't matter if it works for you - and it's easy to try. It's just important to have realistic expectations about these things, because overhyping tends to lead to motivation spikes - you get enthusiastic and then you get disappointed and crash to 0.