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Almost every member of the State Council of China consists of people with STEM degrees (mostly engineering), followed by some with an economics/finance backgrou

by Kranar 4y ago

Almost every member of the State Council of China consists of people with STEM degrees (mostly engineering), followed by some with an economics/finance background.

CogitoCogito 4y ago
I'm sorry I was a bit unclear. I don't take much issue with "run by engineer types", but really I'd question the assumption that they "were fairly rational". Why do people hold that assumption? Is it because "engineer types" must be rational? Personally I haven't been struck by the rationality of the PRC government.
- krageon 4y ago
  You cannot get a STEM degree if you are incapable of thinking logically. The same is not true for other degrees. Therefore, it makes sense to connect the two.
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    > You cannot get a STEM degree if you are incapable of thinking logically. I'm not really sure what you're basing this off of. I've worked in prominent universities teaching math classes and would definitely not make such a claim. > Therefore, it makes sense to connect the two. No it doesn't. What does STEM have to do with running a country anyway? Would you say that McNamara's policies were correct in Vietnam? I'm not sure you could come up with a more "rational" approach to foreign policy anywhere. Personally instead of round about arguments claiming the PRC is rational due to the degrees held by the ruling class, I'd personally just look at the resultant policies. Watching the PRC for a long time, they don't really strike me as very rational at all. Their current handling of covid is only one example.
    - Kranar 4y ago
      >I'm not really sure what you're basing this off of. I've worked in prominent universities teaching math classes and would definitely not make such a claim. I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. Are you genuinely making the claim, based on your experience at prominent universities, that people graduating from STEM fields are incapable of thinking logically? Do you want us to believe that there is no strong relationship between the ability to acquire an undergraduate degree in fields that involve math and science and the capacity to think logically? If that's the case, then so be it, but then I think most people will simply end the conversation at the point since you possibly have a very warped/skewed view of this topic that makes it hard for you to reason about it objectively. >No it doesn't. What does STEM have to do with running a country anyway? No one claimed that the two are connected, all that was claimed is that those in charge of the CCP have engineering backgrounds and hence are very likely to be capable of rational thinking.
  - Teever 4y ago
    But you can get a law degree like most of the US political class if you do think illogically? What is your world view on education like exactly?
- Kranar 4y ago
  What's unclear is your use of the word "rational". It appears you are using that word to mean "actions that are in accordance with values I approve of" instead of its common meaning which is more along the lines of "actions that are consistent with ones reasons". As long as the CCP behaves in a way that is consistent with its own system of reasoning, the CCP is behaving rationally. You may disagree with their reasons, and their reasons may even be immoral, but on the whole I wouldn't say the CCP are doing anything particularly irrational. A few simple tests to determine if someone is behaving rationally is whether their actions are predictable and consistent. Given that their stance on COVID has been very consistent the past two years, it's not accurate to call them irrational about it.
pell 4y ago
STEM degrees != rational politics

by Kranar 4y ago

Almost every member of the State Council of China consists of people with STEM degrees (mostly engineering), followed by some with an economics/finance background.

CogitoCogito 4y ago

I'm sorry I was a bit unclear. I don't take much issue with "run by engineer types", but really I'd question the assumption that they "were fairly rational". Why do people hold that assumption? Is it because "engineer types" must be rational? Personally I haven't been struck by the rationality of the PRC government.

krageon 4y ago
You cannot get a STEM degree if you are incapable of thinking logically. The same is not true for other degrees. Therefore, it makes sense to connect the two.
- CogitoCogito 4y ago
  > You cannot get a STEM degree if you are incapable of thinking logically. I'm not really sure what you're basing this off of. I've worked in prominent universities teaching math classes and would definitely not make such a claim. > Therefore, it makes sense to connect the two. No it doesn't. What does STEM have to do with running a country anyway? Would you say that McNamara's policies were correct in Vietnam? I'm not sure you could come up with a more "rational" approach to foreign policy anywhere. Personally instead of round about arguments claiming the PRC is rational due to the degrees held by the ruling class, I'd personally just look at the resultant policies. Watching the PRC for a long time, they don't really strike me as very rational at all. Their current handling of covid is only one example.
  - Kranar 4y ago
    >I'm not really sure what you're basing this off of. I've worked in prominent universities teaching math classes and would definitely not make such a claim. I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. Are you genuinely making the claim, based on your experience at prominent universities, that people graduating from STEM fields are incapable of thinking logically? Do you want us to believe that there is no strong relationship between the ability to acquire an undergraduate degree in fields that involve math and science and the capacity to think logically? If that's the case, then so be it, but then I think most people will simply end the conversation at the point since you possibly have a very warped/skewed view of this topic that makes it hard for you to reason about it objectively. >No it doesn't. What does STEM have to do with running a country anyway? No one claimed that the two are connected, all that was claimed is that those in charge of the CCP have engineering backgrounds and hence are very likely to be capable of rational thinking.
- Teever 4y ago
  But you can get a law degree like most of the US political class if you do think illogically? What is your world view on education like exactly?
Kranar 4y ago
What's unclear is your use of the word "rational". It appears you are using that word to mean "actions that are in accordance with values I approve of" instead of its common meaning which is more along the lines of "actions that are consistent with ones reasons". As long as the CCP behaves in a way that is consistent with its own system of reasoning, the CCP is behaving rationally. You may disagree with their reasons, and their reasons may even be immoral, but on the whole I wouldn't say the CCP are doing anything particularly irrational. A few simple tests to determine if someone is behaving rationally is whether their actions are predictable and consistent. Given that their stance on COVID has been very consistent the past two years, it's not accurate to call them irrational about it.

pell 4y ago

STEM degrees != rational politics