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How exactly is "zero-COVID" supposed to end? It seems like China are committed to extreme measures like this in perpetuity any time there is a future outbreak,

How exactly is "zero-COVID" supposed to end? It seems like China are committed to extreme measures like this in perpetuity any time there is a future outbreak, which will happen.

chamucoman 4y ago
The zero-Covid is just an excuse to manipulate the local (increasing wealth of citizens) and global (supply chain disruption) economic landscape. This should be obvious to anyone, but I guess is not, and some people still think this is about Covid.
- winrid 4y ago
  Why would anyone want to do that? Who does it benefit?
- tobltobs 4y ago
  Could you explain the obvious a bit more? They crash their own economy to do what?
- wvenable 4y ago
  How does disrupting the supply chain help anyone?
  - pvarangot 4y ago
    I think it's like a government backed strike or lockdown. The CCP is getting tired of the US Government bullshit where independent states or the federal government crazily ban or allow Chinese products for whatever crazy bullshit reasons and they change it every couple of months. In the chemical industry it's pretty bad. Some stuff I know shops in China refuse to synthesize anymore because it's like they tool up and then they can't sell it anymore to anyone because some US agency bans its import. Of course if they also stop making phones everyone gets mad.
- neither_color 4y ago
  I think that's giving them too much credit. Historically, this isn't the first time that they've enacted a long war of attrition against nature and lost. Consider their attempts to eliminate sparrows, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign With no sparrows to eat them, locust populations ballooned, swarming the country and compounding the ecological problems already caused by the Great Leap Forward, including widespread deforestation and misuse of poisons and pesticides.[9] Ecological imbalance is credited with exacerbating the Great Chinese Famine.[12][13] The Chinese government eventually resorted to importing 250,000 sparrows from the Soviet Union to replenish their population.[14]
ttul 4y ago
Bizarrely, I don’t think they have an exit strategy. They ought to be vaccinating all the holdouts, but I think the government there is afraid of a backlash if they force pensioners to roll up their sleeves.
- markus92 4y ago
  Do they even have usable vaccines? Their Sinovac/Sinopharm vaccines were reasonably effective in preventing severe COVID in the non-elderly pre-omicron, but they don't seem to be too effective against omicron. Most countries using the Chinese vaccines had the "benefit" of having a ton of natural immunity as well. China obviously does not have this. They might seriously have to consider importing Western vaccines as boosters, especially for their under-vaccinated elderly population.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Data from Hong Kong shows that three shots of Sinovac is still 98% effective against severe outcomes with Omicron: https://fortune.com/2022/03/22/china-covid-vaccine-data-reopen-mrna-sinovac-biontech-efficacy-booster-third-dose-death/ https://fortune.com/2022/03/22/china-covid-vaccine-data-reop... And it doesn't make a lot of sense that the different vaccines would be substantially different against different variants or would wane quicker once the same level of vaccination was reached. Once you've got the T-cells and B-cells they're permanent and they aren't going to remember what kind of vaccine they came from. The differences in the vaccines should just be in overall effectiveness. Mostly they just need to get their elderly population vaccinated, doesn't matter much how. It is really weird to watch China treat them with kid gloves.
    - twic 4y ago
      > And it doesn't make a lot of sense that the different vaccines would be substantially different against different variants or would wane quicker once the same level of vaccination was reached. Once you've got the T-cells and B-cells they're permanent and they aren't going to remember what kind of vaccine they came from. The differences in the vaccines should just be in overall effectiveness. Not quite. Subunit (Novavax) or inactivated virus vaccines (like the Chinese ones) do not cause synthesis of viral proteins, so they do not stimulate killer T cell immunity [1]. That's a whole arm of the immune system which is not getting primed. [1] Except to a limited extent via cross-presentation, i know
ptero 4y ago
Either by no longer testing for it (which allows one to claim victory), or by modifying the policy, or by modifying what "zero covid" means (hey, if politicians can redefine pi, why could not they redefine zero). Flippant tone aside, I think those are your only options. My 2c.
twblalock 4y ago
The government spent the past few years bragging that it beat Covid and would lose a lot of credibility if it admitted that actually it didn't and now a new policy is needed. Of course there is also a limit to what the people will take in terms of lockdowns and that hurts the government's credibility too. But the government is still betting they can persist with the current policy.
rubyist5eva 4y ago
Covid-zero is just a lie. It's only about totalitarian control over the populace and constant state of fear.
somewhereoutth 4y ago
How exactly is "max-Covid" supposed to end? With reinfections common, new variants arising at an ever increasing pace, and waning vaccination efficacy, it seems like the sickness and death will continue unabated. Do we just accept (another!) few years off our life expectancy (and they will be the good years from the middle, not the crummy years at the end), so long as we can go to Wendy's whenever we like?

How exactly is "zero-COVID" supposed to end? It seems like China are committed to extreme measures like this in perpetuity any time there is a future outbreak, which will happen.

chamucoman 4y ago

The zero-Covid is just an excuse to manipulate the local (increasing wealth of citizens) and global (supply chain disruption) economic landscape. This should be obvious to anyone, but I guess is not, and some people still think this is about Covid.

winrid 4y ago
Why would anyone want to do that? Who does it benefit?
tobltobs 4y ago
Could you explain the obvious a bit more? They crash their own economy to do what?
wvenable 4y ago
How does disrupting the supply chain help anyone?
- pvarangot 4y ago
  I think it's like a government backed strike or lockdown. The CCP is getting tired of the US Government bullshit where independent states or the federal government crazily ban or allow Chinese products for whatever crazy bullshit reasons and they change it every couple of months. In the chemical industry it's pretty bad. Some stuff I know shops in China refuse to synthesize anymore because it's like they tool up and then they can't sell it anymore to anyone because some US agency bans its import. Of course if they also stop making phones everyone gets mad.
neither_color 4y ago
I think that's giving them too much credit. Historically, this isn't the first time that they've enacted a long war of attrition against nature and lost. Consider their attempts to eliminate sparrows, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign With no sparrows to eat them, locust populations ballooned, swarming the country and compounding the ecological problems already caused by the Great Leap Forward, including widespread deforestation and misuse of poisons and pesticides.[9] Ecological imbalance is credited with exacerbating the Great Chinese Famine.[12][13] The Chinese government eventually resorted to importing 250,000 sparrows from the Soviet Union to replenish their population.[14]

ttul 4y ago

Bizarrely, I don’t think they have an exit strategy. They ought to be vaccinating all the holdouts, but I think the government there is afraid of a backlash if they force pensioners to roll up their sleeves.

markus92 4y ago
Do they even have usable vaccines? Their Sinovac/Sinopharm vaccines were reasonably effective in preventing severe COVID in the non-elderly pre-omicron, but they don't seem to be too effective against omicron. Most countries using the Chinese vaccines had the "benefit" of having a ton of natural immunity as well. China obviously does not have this. They might seriously have to consider importing Western vaccines as boosters, especially for their under-vaccinated elderly population.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Data from Hong Kong shows that three shots of Sinovac is still 98% effective against severe outcomes with Omicron: https://fortune.com/2022/03/22/china-covid-vaccine-data-reopen-mrna-sinovac-biontech-efficacy-booster-third-dose-death/ https://fortune.com/2022/03/22/china-covid-vaccine-data-reop... And it doesn't make a lot of sense that the different vaccines would be substantially different against different variants or would wane quicker once the same level of vaccination was reached. Once you've got the T-cells and B-cells they're permanent and they aren't going to remember what kind of vaccine they came from. The differences in the vaccines should just be in overall effectiveness. Mostly they just need to get their elderly population vaccinated, doesn't matter much how. It is really weird to watch China treat them with kid gloves.
  - twic 4y ago
    > And it doesn't make a lot of sense that the different vaccines would be substantially different against different variants or would wane quicker once the same level of vaccination was reached. Once you've got the T-cells and B-cells they're permanent and they aren't going to remember what kind of vaccine they came from. The differences in the vaccines should just be in overall effectiveness. Not quite. Subunit (Novavax) or inactivated virus vaccines (like the Chinese ones) do not cause synthesis of viral proteins, so they do not stimulate killer T cell immunity [1]. That's a whole arm of the immune system which is not getting primed. [1] Except to a limited extent via cross-presentation, i know

ptero 4y ago

Either by no longer testing for it (which allows one to claim victory), or by modifying the policy, or by modifying what "zero covid" means (hey, if politicians can redefine pi, why could not they redefine zero). Flippant tone aside, I think those are your only options. My 2c.

twblalock 4y ago

The government spent the past few years bragging that it beat Covid and would lose a lot of credibility if it admitted that actually it didn't and now a new policy is needed. Of course there is also a limit to what the people will take in terms of lockdowns and that hurts the government's credibility too. But the government is still betting they can persist with the current policy.

rubyist5eva 4y ago

Covid-zero is just a lie. It's only about totalitarian control over the populace and constant state of fear.

somewhereoutth 4y ago

How exactly is "max-Covid" supposed to end? With reinfections common, new variants arising at an ever increasing pace, and waning vaccination efficacy, it seems like the sickness and death will continue unabated. Do we just accept (another!) few years off our life expectancy (and they will be the good years from the middle, not the crummy years at the end), so long as we can go to Wendy's whenever we like?