3 ms·

Gentle reminder that oil companies knew climate change was coming in the 70s, and their response was to use tobacco lobby tactics to spread misinformation. Med

Gentle reminder that oil companies knew climate change was coming in the 70s, and their response was to use tobacco lobby tactics to spread misinformation. Media and politicians helped - and are still helping - them do it.

captainmuon 4y ago
This it totally weird. I was born in the 80s, and as a kid I learned about CO2 and climate change in school. In elementary school in the US. I even had a "ninja turtles save the environment" book. Nobody can claim we didn't know, or the oil industry kept the information secret. One of the reasons I believe our current political system is bankrupt. It can't do the right thing even when it is crystal clear.
- wirthjason 4y ago
  As another 80’s kid we shouldn’t forget about Captain Planet!
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Every political system around the world and across history has failed to address environmental problems. It’s probably one of the hardest problems ever.
- em500 4y ago
  Yup. Here's a casual joke on global warming from Hot Shots! (1991), that's more than 30 years ago now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkBKGttM_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkBKGttM_U
- mandmandam 4y ago
  > Nobody can claim we didn't know, or the oil industry kept the information secret. Ya know, people said the same thing about tobacco. Their FUD tactics were effective though. They sewed enough doubt to squeeze a few extra decades of profit out of people, at the expense of millions of lives. This is that but worse. And it's so, so sad that people here are missing that point and carrying water for the fossil fuel mass murderers.
- sebazzz 4y ago
  It is the same with taxes: Not raising taxes for companies because being afraid that companies move elsewhere. As an European my only hope is that the EU does something that's mandatory for companies to do in a way that it has worldwide effect (like GDPR or repairability rules for instance).
lotsofpulp 4y ago
Even if true, it would not have mattered if people knew then. Today, everyone in aggregate still wants to consume more and sufficiently high fossil fuel taxes to curb consumption are off the political table.
- hgomersall 4y ago
  Because, for example, they are constantly told to aspire to owning a bigger car. "Everyone in aggregate" implies that this is a solution for rational individuals and that the oil companies are just passive observers. Let's not just gloss over the egregious crimes against humanity the oil industry have committed.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    No one needs to be told to value their personal enjoyment/wants in the short term over sacrificing for others in the long term.
- api 4y ago
  We can consume more. We just have to get energy from things other than fossil carbon. IMHO a big problem with this debate is the austerity framing. Austerity is a political loser. Always has been, always will be. Frame something as requiring austerity and it's guaranteed to fail. It's not necessary either. Nuclear and renewable energy can power modern society and then some.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    >Nuclear and renewable energy can power modern society and then some. If it were that easy, it would have happened. Other sources of energy have downsides, such as price, convenience, portability, etc. Mainly price, I would assume. Which goes back to the original point, that if the thing people want most is to live in large homes in far flung suburbs with large pickup trucks and SUVs and vacations to tropical destinations, they are not going to vote for policies that make those things less possible. If 50 years ago, we had voted to make gas $10/gallon, then maybe those alternatives would have been feasible to develop and implement. But even today, $5/gallon gas will cause the incumbent politicians to lose elections. No one is going to touch that issue and win.
WaxedChewbacca 4y ago

captainmuon 4y ago

This it totally weird. I was born in the 80s, and as a kid I learned about CO2 and climate change in school. In elementary school in the US. I even had a "ninja turtles save the environment" book. Nobody can claim we didn't know, or the oil industry kept the information secret. One of the reasons I believe our current political system is bankrupt. It can't do the right thing even when it is crystal clear.

wirthjason 4y ago
As another 80’s kid we shouldn’t forget about Captain Planet!
Gigachad 4y ago
Every political system around the world and across history has failed to address environmental problems. It’s probably one of the hardest problems ever.
em500 4y ago
Yup. Here's a casual joke on global warming from Hot Shots! (1991), that's more than 30 years ago now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkBKGttM_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkBKGttM_U
mandmandam 4y ago
> Nobody can claim we didn't know, or the oil industry kept the information secret. Ya know, people said the same thing about tobacco. Their FUD tactics were effective though. They sewed enough doubt to squeeze a few extra decades of profit out of people, at the expense of millions of lives. This is that but worse. And it's so, so sad that people here are missing that point and carrying water for the fossil fuel mass murderers.
sebazzz 4y ago
It is the same with taxes: Not raising taxes for companies because being afraid that companies move elsewhere. As an European my only hope is that the EU does something that's mandatory for companies to do in a way that it has worldwide effect (like GDPR or repairability rules for instance).

lotsofpulp 4y ago

Even if true, it would not have mattered if people knew then. Today, everyone in aggregate still wants to consume more and sufficiently high fossil fuel taxes to curb consumption are off the political table.

hgomersall 4y ago
Because, for example, they are constantly told to aspire to owning a bigger car. "Everyone in aggregate" implies that this is a solution for rational individuals and that the oil companies are just passive observers. Let's not just gloss over the egregious crimes against humanity the oil industry have committed.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  No one needs to be told to value their personal enjoyment/wants in the short term over sacrificing for others in the long term.
api 4y ago
We can consume more. We just have to get energy from things other than fossil carbon. IMHO a big problem with this debate is the austerity framing. Austerity is a political loser. Always has been, always will be. Frame something as requiring austerity and it's guaranteed to fail. It's not necessary either. Nuclear and renewable energy can power modern society and then some.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  >Nuclear and renewable energy can power modern society and then some. If it were that easy, it would have happened. Other sources of energy have downsides, such as price, convenience, portability, etc. Mainly price, I would assume. Which goes back to the original point, that if the thing people want most is to live in large homes in far flung suburbs with large pickup trucks and SUVs and vacations to tropical destinations, they are not going to vote for policies that make those things less possible. If 50 years ago, we had voted to make gas $10/gallon, then maybe those alternatives would have been feasible to develop and implement. But even today, $5/gallon gas will cause the incumbent politicians to lose elections. No one is going to touch that issue and win.

WaxedChewbacca 4y ago