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Immigration in the US is such a joke. I understand and agree that the US cannot let everyone in (you would end up with 100 mil people per year), but the current

Immigration in the US is such a joke. I understand and agree that the US cannot let everyone in (you would end up with 100 mil people per year), but the current system is too screwed up. If you want to do everything legally, you have to wait/work years, and even if you have all the papers in order, too many times it's a matter of luck or a government employee disposition on that day. Be an illegal, and you can just walk through the border. The USA could attract much more talent and better immigrants in general, if they just made it all based on qualifications and points, like for example Australia.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Layke1123 4y ago
Why? That used to be the US's exact policy. It's even carved into the Statue of Liberty.
- rhexs 4y ago
  What? That’s just propaganda — it’s a poem, not a historical record of United States immigration policy. Any county actively seeking to import those in poverty is gonna have a fun time competing on the international stage.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Australia used to be a dumping ground for literal convicts, so maybe the OP has a point
  - Layke1123 4y ago
    So all the Irish that came over weren't poor?
rayiner 4y ago
What makes them “better immigrants?” Until the mid 20th century America took the poorest and least educated immigrants and it worked out pretty well. It’s not clear to me that importing other countries’ elites is a better tack.
- lumost 4y ago
  There is also likely a high correlation between individuals willing to uproot for a better life, and success.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  Up until the mid 1800s you had to be rich, at least solidly middle class, to afford the passage across the Atlantic. There’s maybe 70 years of uncontrolled immigration not gated by very high costs before immigration became unpopular enough for restrictions to become large.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Poor immigrants took on debt or worked as indentured servants to afford passage, just like today: https://www.hsp.org/sites/default/files/legacy_files/migrated/germanstudentreading.pdf https://www.hsp.org/sites/default/files/legacy_files/migrate... “One historian described the typical German immigrant as a poor farmer or artisan who arrived around 1750 with a wife and two children. They were most likely in debt for the passage across the Atlantic but had family or friends already settled in America. They were affiliated with the Lutheran or Reformed church but only loosely committed to an organized religion. Records indicate that they became prosperous members of the community. However, many were too poor to pay the transatlantic passage so as many as one-half to two-third of German immigrants came to Pennsylvania as indentured servants or redemptioners, as Germans called them.”
- onetimeusename 4y ago
  My mom's parents immigrated in the late 1950s (from a recently impoverished country despite having advanced degrees) and they were required to show proof of having a job, proof of having healthcare, and proof having enough savings among other things I am sure, or so I was told (I think the requirements can be verified online if in doubt). They would have qualified as poor I imagine since they came with nothing and were fleeing their country. But there were completely different requirements back then. There are various ways one can immigrate to the US now, such as H-1B, DV, asylum, illegally, etc. I think only H-1B requires proof of employment before entering. I think the requirements previously may have filtered a lot of people in spite of education and net worth. Also, I am not sure what qualifies as being educated back then since having a bachelor's degree was a lot less common than it is now.
sgjohnson 4y ago
As a European, who’d love to move to the US, I perfectly agree. (Except about the points system, because it’s completely arbitrary, imho the only qualification should be either an advanced degree, or a lined up job offer, subject to annual per country cap, because otherwise it could get completely out of hand) Going through the L1B or H1B route is below me (as you’re tied to an employer with all the issues that entails, not to mention the H1B lottery, or the fact that to even qualify for a L1B I’d have to already work for the same employer for a year, and then hope they are willing to transfer me is absolutely ridiculous). And basically nobody is going to sponsor me for a EB-2 outright. So we’re just applying for the DV lottery every year. If we win, we’ll move to the States. Otherwise we’re not going through the meat grinder that is the US immigration system. I’m actually not sure what the latest rules are, but what I recall that H1B spouses can’t even get a work permit until there’s an approved I-140 (Green card petition), so H1B route is a complete showstopper. How desperate do you have to be to go through that?
- qaq 4y ago
  Well EU is not exactly the worst place in the world...
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    My point exactly. The US is completely incapable of competing for non-top-level talent from the EU. Very few Europeans in their right mind would consider going through the meat grinder that the US immigration system is, not least of which is the bad rep the US gets for not having a single payer healthcare system (not that it should have one, it’s just that Europeans also have to justify giving that up) Personally, I love the United States. But the US basically can’t compete for me as an employee, because I’m going to take the offer that makes the most rational sense, which, with as things stand, is extremely unlikely to come from an employer in the US.
    - qaq 4y ago
      It doesn't really deprive US companies of anything since all major ones have EU presence. Does deprive US of tax revenue though
markdown 4y ago
> Be an illegal, and you can just walk through the border. This comparison makes no sense. The "legal" waiting years to get citizenship is still far, far ahead of an illegal who just walking across the border, yet you've presented this as if the illegal is somehow being treated better than the legal.
jimbob45 4y ago
Kinda fucked go to only steal away the best and brightest from poorer nations though, no? It’s bad enough that every genius South America produces immigrates to America at the first opportunity. Seems less fucked if we take a broader swath of immigrants than just the geniuses.
- 3qz 4y ago
  They’re not being stolen, they love it. It’s even more fucked that you think the best and brightest should be trapped in the awful countries they were born in
  - jimbob45 4y ago
    I don’t want them trapped at all. However, those countries are never going to rise above “awful” if the top 10% of the population continues to be skimmed off every year.
    - zapataband1 4y ago
      The US exists to funnel resources, military power, etc into the hands of the rich. Using coups, the CIA, and full out wars. The hyper-concentration of wealth that is felt in this country happens on a larger scale with the rest of the world countries funneling their wealth into 'civilized' nations.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
johndfsgdgdfg 4y ago
> Be an illegal, and you can just walk through the border. The funniest part is then the woke crowd would start complaining how _____X group is being discriminated. Impose strict visa requirements like everyone else, then you'll see all the discriminations are gone.
- flavius29663 4y ago
  The current system makes no sense. Legally it's very easy to get in (just have a look at the legal requirements for various visas, there's barely anything) - easier than most countries. Hell, even citizenship is a piece of cake once you have a green card. But in practice it's 10x harder than it looks. I guess they need to control immigration somehow, but passing new laws is hard, so they just fallback to making it a bureaucratic nightmare based on luck. And the most absurd thing of all: Republicans are supposed to be pro-business, so they should support immigration, but don't. Democrats are supposed to look after the low class, but they're willing to let in more and more low wage workers that put pressure on the wages of their voters...and they keep doubling down on this. So you end up with neither R or D caring about highly skilled workers

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Layke1123 4y ago

Why? That used to be the US's exact policy. It's even carved into the Statue of Liberty.

rhexs 4y ago
What? That’s just propaganda — it’s a poem, not a historical record of United States immigration policy. Any county actively seeking to import those in poverty is gonna have a fun time competing on the international stage.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Australia used to be a dumping ground for literal convicts, so maybe the OP has a point
- Layke1123 4y ago
  So all the Irish that came over weren't poor?

rayiner 4y ago

What makes them “better immigrants?” Until the mid 20th century America took the poorest and least educated immigrants and it worked out pretty well. It’s not clear to me that importing other countries’ elites is a better tack.

lumost 4y ago
There is also likely a high correlation between individuals willing to uproot for a better life, and success.
barry-cotter 4y ago
Up until the mid 1800s you had to be rich, at least solidly middle class, to afford the passage across the Atlantic. There’s maybe 70 years of uncontrolled immigration not gated by very high costs before immigration became unpopular enough for restrictions to become large.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Poor immigrants took on debt or worked as indentured servants to afford passage, just like today: https://www.hsp.org/sites/default/files/legacy_files/migrated/germanstudentreading.pdf https://www.hsp.org/sites/default/files/legacy_files/migrate... “One historian described the typical German immigrant as a poor farmer or artisan who arrived around 1750 with a wife and two children. They were most likely in debt for the passage across the Atlantic but had family or friends already settled in America. They were affiliated with the Lutheran or Reformed church but only loosely committed to an organized religion. Records indicate that they became prosperous members of the community. However, many were too poor to pay the transatlantic passage so as many as one-half to two-third of German immigrants came to Pennsylvania as indentured servants or redemptioners, as Germans called them.”
onetimeusename 4y ago
My mom's parents immigrated in the late 1950s (from a recently impoverished country despite having advanced degrees) and they were required to show proof of having a job, proof of having healthcare, and proof having enough savings among other things I am sure, or so I was told (I think the requirements can be verified online if in doubt). They would have qualified as poor I imagine since they came with nothing and were fleeing their country. But there were completely different requirements back then. There are various ways one can immigrate to the US now, such as H-1B, DV, asylum, illegally, etc. I think only H-1B requires proof of employment before entering. I think the requirements previously may have filtered a lot of people in spite of education and net worth. Also, I am not sure what qualifies as being educated back then since having a bachelor's degree was a lot less common than it is now.

sgjohnson 4y ago

As a European, who’d love to move to the US, I perfectly agree. (Except about the points system, because it’s completely arbitrary, imho the only qualification should be either an advanced degree, or a lined up job offer, subject to annual per country cap, because otherwise it could get completely out of hand) Going through the L1B or H1B route is below me (as you’re tied to an employer with all the issues that entails, not to mention the H1B lottery, or the fact that to even qualify for a L1B I’d have to already work for the same employer for a year, and then hope they are willing to transfer me is absolutely ridiculous). And basically nobody is going to sponsor me for a EB-2 outright. So we’re just applying for the DV lottery every year. If we win, we’ll move to the States. Otherwise we’re not going through the meat grinder that is the US immigration system. I’m actually not sure what the latest rules are, but what I recall that H1B spouses can’t even get a work permit until there’s an approved I-140 (Green card petition), so H1B route is a complete showstopper. How desperate do you have to be to go through that?

qaq 4y ago
Well EU is not exactly the worst place in the world...
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  My point exactly. The US is completely incapable of competing for non-top-level talent from the EU. Very few Europeans in their right mind would consider going through the meat grinder that the US immigration system is, not least of which is the bad rep the US gets for not having a single payer healthcare system (not that it should have one, it’s just that Europeans also have to justify giving that up) Personally, I love the United States. But the US basically can’t compete for me as an employee, because I’m going to take the offer that makes the most rational sense, which, with as things stand, is extremely unlikely to come from an employer in the US.
  - qaq 4y ago
    It doesn't really deprive US companies of anything since all major ones have EU presence. Does deprive US of tax revenue though

markdown 4y ago

> Be an illegal, and you can just walk through the border. This comparison makes no sense. The "legal" waiting years to get citizenship is still far, far ahead of an illegal who just walking across the border, yet you've presented this as if the illegal is somehow being treated better than the legal.

jimbob45 4y ago

Kinda fucked go to only steal away the best and brightest from poorer nations though, no? It’s bad enough that every genius South America produces immigrates to America at the first opportunity. Seems less fucked if we take a broader swath of immigrants than just the geniuses.

3qz 4y ago
They’re not being stolen, they love it. It’s even more fucked that you think the best and brightest should be trapped in the awful countries they were born in
- jimbob45 4y ago
  I don’t want them trapped at all. However, those countries are never going to rise above “awful” if the top 10% of the population continues to be skimmed off every year.
  - zapataband1 4y ago
    The US exists to funnel resources, military power, etc into the hands of the rich. Using coups, the CIA, and full out wars. The hyper-concentration of wealth that is felt in this country happens on a larger scale with the rest of the world countries funneling their wealth into 'civilized' nations.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

johndfsgdgdfg 4y ago

> Be an illegal, and you can just walk through the border. The funniest part is then the woke crowd would start complaining how _____X group is being discriminated. Impose strict visa requirements like everyone else, then you'll see all the discriminations are gone.

flavius29663 4y ago
The current system makes no sense. Legally it's very easy to get in (just have a look at the legal requirements for various visas, there's barely anything) - easier than most countries. Hell, even citizenship is a piece of cake once you have a green card. But in practice it's 10x harder than it looks. I guess they need to control immigration somehow, but passing new laws is hard, so they just fallback to making it a bureaucratic nightmare based on luck. And the most absurd thing of all: Republicans are supposed to be pro-business, so they should support immigration, but don't. Democrats are supposed to look after the low class, but they're willing to let in more and more low wage workers that put pressure on the wages of their voters...and they keep doubling down on this. So you end up with neither R or D caring about highly skilled workers