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UBI is the "forever ticket" that insures the status quo when UBI is institutued will be the people in power forevermore. UBI is the means in which the 1% seal t

UBI is the "forever ticket" that insures the status quo when UBI is institutued will be the people in power forevermore. UBI is the means in which the 1% seal their and our fates forever, because there is zero incentive to change or improve a system where all power and decisions are performed by ignored automation for a powerless, uneducated and education-incapable 99%, while the 1% in power wallow in excess.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
How will the 1% in power get others to work for them?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > How will the 1% in power get others to work for them? Tens of millions of Americans can effortlessly live in luxury relative to our ancestors. Most of us on this forum could retire to a poorer country and live comfortably off savings alone. We don’t.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Yes, my question was intended to lead to the answer of “the 1% having to pay them”. As in UBI will give lower wage workers a better negotiating position from which to extract more wealth/power from the 1%.
    - bsenftner 4y ago
      No, that is not how it works. UBI removes any negotiating position; what are the UBI recipients going to do, strike their non-existing jobs? Riot, and trigger the 1% police-thugs? UBI is a terrible idea, and how a human mass execution is setup.
- bsenftner 4y ago
  How do they now? Starvation, place to sleep, criminalizing homelessness. With UBI, the excuses cease and criminalization doubles down. UBI is a trick, folks, do not fall for it!
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  There's little or no reason for most folks to work, or soon will be. It's no longer a market dominated by labor. Factory jobs are a nearly-extinct fraction of what they once were. Office jobs have dried up and pushed 30M people into service (flipping burgers) at a fraction of what they used to earn. When service jobs become automated (happening at a breakneck pace?) then what? "The workers own the means of production" becomes an empty phrase when there are no workers in the plant. Lots of hyperbole about changes caused by UBI, particularly in apocalyptic scenarios. But the alternative may be, let them starve? Because that's a conspiracy-theorists preference?
carapace 4y ago
Let's relieve humanity from the hard-scrabble "earn a living" conditions because A) we can, and B) not doing so is cruel. Maybe we slide into complacency and sloth, but I doubt it. Personally, I think it would free up more time for things like parenting and education, and working out political differences with words, not weapons.
rytill 4y ago
How would UBI make the power gap larger than it already is?
- bsenftner 4y ago
  UBI creates a welfare state with a culture that does not need to work to live, so many would-be STEM professionals simply become tailgate partiers for life. A culture is created as a result of UBI that is detrimental to education and scientific advances.
  - rytill 4y ago
    What if it wasn’t enough to live on, but enough to significantly impact the ability for the poorest to survive? Say $3600/yr = $300/mo. Don’t you think that could increase the pool of STEM candidates from poor families without creating a large new subculture like you’re describing? That being said, I don’t think even a greater UBI would decrease STEM candidacy. UBI would have to be massive before people stop wanting to be in STEM. If anything, the problem would be that we lose the bottom rung of unskilled labor.
    - bsenftner 4y ago
      I'd love to see an outcome as you describe. I'm doubtful.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

How will the 1% in power get others to work for them?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> How will the 1% in power get others to work for them? Tens of millions of Americans can effortlessly live in luxury relative to our ancestors. Most of us on this forum could retire to a poorer country and live comfortably off savings alone. We don’t.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Yes, my question was intended to lead to the answer of “the 1% having to pay them”. As in UBI will give lower wage workers a better negotiating position from which to extract more wealth/power from the 1%.
  - bsenftner 4y ago
    No, that is not how it works. UBI removes any negotiating position; what are the UBI recipients going to do, strike their non-existing jobs? Riot, and trigger the 1% police-thugs? UBI is a terrible idea, and how a human mass execution is setup.
bsenftner 4y ago
How do they now? Starvation, place to sleep, criminalizing homelessness. With UBI, the excuses cease and criminalization doubles down. UBI is a trick, folks, do not fall for it!
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
There's little or no reason for most folks to work, or soon will be. It's no longer a market dominated by labor. Factory jobs are a nearly-extinct fraction of what they once were. Office jobs have dried up and pushed 30M people into service (flipping burgers) at a fraction of what they used to earn. When service jobs become automated (happening at a breakneck pace?) then what? "The workers own the means of production" becomes an empty phrase when there are no workers in the plant. Lots of hyperbole about changes caused by UBI, particularly in apocalyptic scenarios. But the alternative may be, let them starve? Because that's a conspiracy-theorists preference?

carapace 4y ago

Let's relieve humanity from the hard-scrabble "earn a living" conditions because A) we can, and B) not doing so is cruel. Maybe we slide into complacency and sloth, but I doubt it. Personally, I think it would free up more time for things like parenting and education, and working out political differences with words, not weapons.

rytill 4y ago

How would UBI make the power gap larger than it already is?

bsenftner 4y ago
UBI creates a welfare state with a culture that does not need to work to live, so many would-be STEM professionals simply become tailgate partiers for life. A culture is created as a result of UBI that is detrimental to education and scientific advances.
- rytill 4y ago
  What if it wasn’t enough to live on, but enough to significantly impact the ability for the poorest to survive? Say $3600/yr = $300/mo. Don’t you think that could increase the pool of STEM candidates from poor families without creating a large new subculture like you’re describing? That being said, I don’t think even a greater UBI would decrease STEM candidacy. UBI would have to be massive before people stop wanting to be in STEM. If anything, the problem would be that we lose the bottom rung of unskilled labor.
  - bsenftner 4y ago
    I'd love to see an outcome as you describe. I'm doubtful.