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People are brainwashed to use their privacy as a currency for "free" stuff.

beebeepka 4y ago
In my experience, the vast majority isn't even remotely aware they're paying with their personal information. They just assume some things are free because they have always* been free. * You have to remember that most people joined the internet fairly recently. Like the last decade.
jollybean 4y ago
It's still free, and most people really don't care that Facebook or Google is using their 'behaviour' to show them ads. It's really just not that important to most people.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > people really don't care I won't say you are wrong, as such. In fact 'they' absolutely do care, but just don't understand. I've done tons of research on this, personally and reading all the latest papers and evidence for about 9 years (back to 2013). People _really_ care. However, not to pick on you specifically but here's is a reason I am replying in order to challenge not you but the dangerous idea - the meme/mythology that "people don't care" is pernicious and naturally spread within the social networks that stand to benefit most from it. It even has it's own entire subculture of self-denigration and celebration of surrendering dignity as a badge of honour. You're not wrong, because you've been strongly influenced, and the psychological reasons we parrot the the "people don't care" line are complex and involve each of our own relations to personal boundaries.
nonrandomstring 4y ago
> use their privacy as a currency for "free" stuff There are other currencies. Some of these get mixed up with privacy. Time is a common currency. Flat pack furniture is subsidised by passing the assembly costs to the end user - mostly as time. Reputation, image or likeness is a way to pay. Remember the hairdresser with a window full of free modelling service photographs of smiling clients with great hair? Endorsement is another way to pay with "freelance marketing". Cosmetic and kitchen products (tupperware) often had elaborate endorsement chains or pyramid schemes. Knowledge has long been a "hidden" currency in Free software like Linux. You need to know what you're doing. In all cases some friction arises when the customer doesn't know in advance that payment in one or more "hidden" currencies is required. The vendors mistake is to try hiding it in order to advertise a product as "free". Announcing it up front is actually better, otherwise the customer reacts by seeing the sale as a scam of some kind. Loss of privacy is a just one particularly egregious type of hidden currency scam. It's high time it should be treated by customers and regulators exactly the same as other explicit extractions.
- usrn 4y ago
  I really enjoy assembling flat pack furniture. Me and my SO put Lego kits together for our first few dates and both of us bond well building Ikea furniture because of that I think.
avgcorrection 4y ago
Cliche HN sentimnents aside, it’s not that simple. - Early stage social network: It’s gratis so what’s the harm? They are not big enough to leverage Big Data behavorial analysis or whatever, anyway - Late stage social network: Hey Frank, we’re gonna use a FB group to plan the school and community activities. Oh, you’re not on FB? Why not?
scollet 4y ago
They are not. Companies are abusing data. The services should still be free.
amelius 4y ago
It should be illegal to only offer this type of payment method.

In my experience, the vast majority isn't even remotely aware they're paying with their personal information. They just assume some things are free because they have always* been free. * You have to remember that most people joined the internet fairly recently. Like the last decade.

jollybean 4y ago

It's still free, and most people really don't care that Facebook or Google is using their 'behaviour' to show them ads. It's really just not that important to most people.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
> people really don't care I won't say you are wrong, as such. In fact 'they' absolutely do care, but just don't understand. I've done tons of research on this, personally and reading all the latest papers and evidence for about 9 years (back to 2013). People _really_ care. However, not to pick on you specifically but here's is a reason I am replying in order to challenge not you but the dangerous idea - the meme/mythology that "people don't care" is pernicious and naturally spread within the social networks that stand to benefit most from it. It even has it's own entire subculture of self-denigration and celebration of surrendering dignity as a badge of honour. You're not wrong, because you've been strongly influenced, and the psychological reasons we parrot the the "people don't care" line are complex and involve each of our own relations to personal boundaries.

nonrandomstring 4y ago

> use their privacy as a currency for "free" stuff There are other currencies. Some of these get mixed up with privacy. Time is a common currency. Flat pack furniture is subsidised by passing the assembly costs to the end user - mostly as time. Reputation, image or likeness is a way to pay. Remember the hairdresser with a window full of free modelling service photographs of smiling clients with great hair? Endorsement is another way to pay with "freelance marketing". Cosmetic and kitchen products (tupperware) often had elaborate endorsement chains or pyramid schemes. Knowledge has long been a "hidden" currency in Free software like Linux. You need to know what you're doing. In all cases some friction arises when the customer doesn't know in advance that payment in one or more "hidden" currencies is required. The vendors mistake is to try hiding it in order to advertise a product as "free". Announcing it up front is actually better, otherwise the customer reacts by seeing the sale as a scam of some kind. Loss of privacy is a just one particularly egregious type of hidden currency scam. It's high time it should be treated by customers and regulators exactly the same as other explicit extractions.

usrn 4y ago
I really enjoy assembling flat pack furniture. Me and my SO put Lego kits together for our first few dates and both of us bond well building Ikea furniture because of that I think.

avgcorrection 4y ago

Cliche HN sentimnents aside, it’s not that simple. - Early stage social network: It’s gratis so what’s the harm? They are not big enough to leverage Big Data behavorial analysis or whatever, anyway - Late stage social network: Hey Frank, we’re gonna use a FB group to plan the school and community activities. Oh, you’re not on FB? Why not?

scollet 4y ago

They are not. Companies are abusing data. The services should still be free.

amelius 4y ago

It should be illegal to only offer this type of payment method.