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Is higher education the issue here? I know people with higher education that are willing to mute people with different opinions, I know people with higher educa

Is higher education the issue here? I know people with higher education that are willing to mute people with different opinions, I know people with higher education who fail to understand basic things, I think higher education gives you the expertise in a certain field, as you said, higher education creates machines that can help shareholders get rich, as italian I've read a lot about italian universities being ranked 1/1000th lower than US universities, but then I've lived with US people from Harvard in Berlin, it's of course just two example, but I was even questioning how the hell they survived that much, in sense that I had a flatmate asking how the trash bin worked, how the microwave worked or how the oven worked, with little to no awareness of the world, it's weird but yeah I think education from top universities is good for money but it has little to do with daily needed intelligence

staticassertion 4y ago
> Access to education is currently the most conclusive factor explaining disparities in intelligence, according to Ritchie. In a separate study that has not been released, he and his colleagues looked at existing research in an effort to demonstrate that staying in school longer directly equates to higher IQ scores.
- lnxg33k1 4y ago
  Yes, I see, there is a study with some conclusions, but that doesn't mean that one has to ignore his life experiences, also because I would like to see what were the parameters of the tests, I have also other examples of people with higher education failing to understand how democracy basically works and wishing people with different ideas wouldn't vote, so yeah probably the study is right, and the parameters were general, I just find people with higher education more specialised but less functional in day to day stuff
Mandelmus 4y ago
> italian universities being ranked 1/1000th lower than US universities I don't even know what that means. That sounds like they'd be ranked only a tenth of a percent lower than US universities, which doesn't jive with the rest of your point.
torginus 4y ago
University rankings are mainly driven by their research impact which does not directly correlate with the quality of their undergrads.
- WanderPanda 4y ago
  Would be great if this was true but they are using many factors. When I actually sorted by research impact I got a quite different ranking the last time I checked
  - torginus 4y ago
    https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings/methodology https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings... QS World University rankings assigns 40% to Academic reputation, and 20% to Citations per faculty, so it's pretty dominant.
    - mateo1 4y ago
      Going on a tangent, when did people stop citing misguided, erroneous and outright wrong publications as part of their own research into the subject?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
TimPC 4y ago
Seeing as most the studies mentioned Norway which has a perfectly healthy and functional university system that doesn’t leave people in debt, I doubt it. Going to University doesn’t affect IQ much, IQ is not learned.
- fishnchips 4y ago
  IQ may or may not be learned but IQ tests are very much a skill. The difference between my first test and the second one was almost 30 points. These were not too far apart but the second time I simply knew what to expect.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    this is so under appreciated. I consider myself a person of average intelligence who learned very early on that preparation can set me ahead of the group. I practiced interviewing, public speaking, coding, writing, test taking, etc, and it's helped immensely. I mean, most tests tip their hand later, which allows you to go back and revise earlier answers. most writing is formulaic, you just have to find a good example. any system that you are evaluated by can be learned. To prep for grad entrance exams, I wroke up early every Friday, got ready, drove around, sat down and took a timed practice exam at 930 sharp. all to emulate my Friday 900am exam appointment. I got the score I wanted.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      None of those things are IQ tests. You just listed a bunch of things that explicitly are possible to study for. Well designed IQ tests can not be studied for, they're just measuring your pattern recognition ability, not any knowledge you have.
    - hirvi74 4y ago
      > any system that you are evaluated by can be learned. "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure" -- Goodhart's Law
  - kergonath 4y ago
the_lonely_road 4y ago
In a foreign country asking your flatmate how to operate the foreign appliances instead of wasting your time on trial and error or looking it up, likely also in a foreign language, is an example of not being intelligent?
- est31 4y ago
  Yeah i'm in a foreign country now, and despite the laundromat was made by a German company, where I'm originally from, I had to ask locals to explain to me what the buttons meant, because there was no manual on the internet, and it was different to German ones (there's a phpbb forum where one guy DMs u pdfs for your model, but I didn't want to bother signing up). Haven't went to Harvard tho.
bakuninsbart 4y ago
I think top schools like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford etc. can serve as excellent environments for people to reach their full potential, but due to cultural reasons and funding, they are willing to make large compromises on who can get a degree there. Going to Harvard doesn't mean you are intelligent, but I've seldomly seen such high density of super clever people as at these top schools.
randomdata 4y ago
> Is higher education the issue here? His premise is that higher education offers little to no value. What theoretical value a higher education might provide is squandered because people are too busy living their lives, namely working to make ends meet, in order to leverage it. This certainly has proven true economically as we can see that incomes held stagnant through the rise of post-secondary attainment, contrary to assumptions of the past that speculated that college graduates would be able to earn more as a result of having a higher education. Similarly, and perhaps related to, he posits the features tested by IQ are not being practiced because people are too busy to carry out that practice.

staticassertion 4y ago

> Access to education is currently the most conclusive factor explaining disparities in intelligence, according to Ritchie. In a separate study that has not been released, he and his colleagues looked at existing research in an effort to demonstrate that staying in school longer directly equates to higher IQ scores.

lnxg33k1 4y ago
Yes, I see, there is a study with some conclusions, but that doesn't mean that one has to ignore his life experiences, also because I would like to see what were the parameters of the tests, I have also other examples of people with higher education failing to understand how democracy basically works and wishing people with different ideas wouldn't vote, so yeah probably the study is right, and the parameters were general, I just find people with higher education more specialised but less functional in day to day stuff

Mandelmus 4y ago

> italian universities being ranked 1/1000th lower than US universities I don't even know what that means. That sounds like they'd be ranked only a tenth of a percent lower than US universities, which doesn't jive with the rest of your point.

torginus 4y ago

University rankings are mainly driven by their research impact which does not directly correlate with the quality of their undergrads.

WanderPanda 4y ago
Would be great if this was true but they are using many factors. When I actually sorted by research impact I got a quite different ranking the last time I checked
- torginus 4y ago
  https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings/methodology https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-world-university-rankings... QS World University rankings assigns 40% to Academic reputation, and 20% to Citations per faculty, so it's pretty dominant.
  - mateo1 4y ago
    Going on a tangent, when did people stop citing misguided, erroneous and outright wrong publications as part of their own research into the subject?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

TimPC 4y ago

Seeing as most the studies mentioned Norway which has a perfectly healthy and functional university system that doesn’t leave people in debt, I doubt it. Going to University doesn’t affect IQ much, IQ is not learned.

fishnchips 4y ago
IQ may or may not be learned but IQ tests are very much a skill. The difference between my first test and the second one was almost 30 points. These were not too far apart but the second time I simply knew what to expect.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  this is so under appreciated. I consider myself a person of average intelligence who learned very early on that preparation can set me ahead of the group. I practiced interviewing, public speaking, coding, writing, test taking, etc, and it's helped immensely. I mean, most tests tip their hand later, which allows you to go back and revise earlier answers. most writing is formulaic, you just have to find a good example. any system that you are evaluated by can be learned. To prep for grad entrance exams, I wroke up early every Friday, got ready, drove around, sat down and took a timed practice exam at 930 sharp. all to emulate my Friday 900am exam appointment. I got the score I wanted.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    None of those things are IQ tests. You just listed a bunch of things that explicitly are possible to study for. Well designed IQ tests can not be studied for, they're just measuring your pattern recognition ability, not any knowledge you have.
  - hirvi74 4y ago
    > any system that you are evaluated by can be learned. "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure" -- Goodhart's Law
- kergonath 4y ago

the_lonely_road 4y ago

In a foreign country asking your flatmate how to operate the foreign appliances instead of wasting your time on trial and error or looking it up, likely also in a foreign language, is an example of not being intelligent?

est31 4y ago
Yeah i'm in a foreign country now, and despite the laundromat was made by a German company, where I'm originally from, I had to ask locals to explain to me what the buttons meant, because there was no manual on the internet, and it was different to German ones (there's a phpbb forum where one guy DMs u pdfs for your model, but I didn't want to bother signing up). Haven't went to Harvard tho.

bakuninsbart 4y ago

I think top schools like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford etc. can serve as excellent environments for people to reach their full potential, but due to cultural reasons and funding, they are willing to make large compromises on who can get a degree there. Going to Harvard doesn't mean you are intelligent, but I've seldomly seen such high density of super clever people as at these top schools.

randomdata 4y ago

> Is higher education the issue here? His premise is that higher education offers little to no value. What theoretical value a higher education might provide is squandered because people are too busy living their lives, namely working to make ends meet, in order to leverage it. This certainly has proven true economically as we can see that incomes held stagnant through the rise of post-secondary attainment, contrary to assumptions of the past that speculated that college graduates would be able to earn more as a result of having a higher education. Similarly, and perhaps related to, he posits the features tested by IQ are not being practiced because people are too busy to carry out that practice.