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Yeah, I didn't realize this since I guess I've only paid attention to the surface-level facts. But digging deeper, the "people in the know" are now pointing ou

• CPLX 5y ago
  > But there's also the question: will Twitter's board really go to court to force Musk to buy it at $54.20? There's also the question of politics here. Even if Twitter's board is in the legal-right to do so, forcing Musk to become the new owner is bad politics. Is there some kind of politics more important for corporate decision making than claiming the $20bn or so you're entitled to by contract?
  • dragontamer 5y ago
    > Is there some kind of politics more important for corporate decision making than claiming the $20bn or so you're entitled to by contract? Corporate politics are politics like any other. They're very complicated. https://www.engadget.com/musk-twitter-lawsuit-florida-pension-fund-010029248.html https://www.engadget.com/musk-twitter-lawsuit-florida-pensio...
  • HWR_14 5y ago
    > Is there some kind of politics more important for corporate decision making than claiming the $20bn or so you're entitled to by contract? Sure. It's the principle-agent problem. Twitter as a whole might make more money under scenario A, but the people who make that choice on Twitter's behalf might make more money under scenario B. Of course, that's short term thinking if you're a C-level executive. Because scenario A gets you more money at your next job. But if you're thinking about retiring, it could work.
• te_chris 5y ago
  I really don’t understand this comment. You think the Twitter legal team are so dumb to not have negotiated an agreement in their own favour?
  • ProfessorLayton 5y ago
    I don't mean to be snarky but we're talking about the same company that shut down Vine and let TikTok happen. Their decision making has been baffling.
    • vore 5y ago
      You're making a category error. The legal team is not the product team.
    • rchaud 5y ago
      And Tesla has recalled nearly half a million cars mfg between 2017-20[0]. That's a solid percentage of all the cars they've manufactured during that time. I shudder to ask what you think of its leadership. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/30/tesla-recalls-475000-model-3-model-s-electric-cars-over-safety-issues.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/30/tesla-recalls-475000-model-3...
      • spiderice 5y ago
        What? How is Tesla's car quality relevant to this conversation? You're really stretching here.
  • dragontamer 5y ago
    > I really don’t understand this comment. You think the Twitter legal team are so dumb to not have negotiated an agreement in their own favour? Oh, the agreement is absolutely in Twitter's favor if Musk pulls out of the deal. But that doesn't mean *suing Musk* to complete the deal is actually their best move. As usual, the best move is probably some kind of plea-agreement (or starting to sue to get into the position of a plea-bargain), where the details are figured out. --------- There's really no "political benefit" to forcing Elon Musk to become the new owner of Twitter. There's a lot of room for creativity here. Maybe Twitter manages to extract a $2 billion concession or $5 billion concession from Musk (rather than the limited $1 Billion in the deal, since that only applies to very restrictive terms) Or maybe Twitter just bans Elon Musk from their platform for wanton trolling and collects the $1 Billion. Who knows? Just because Twitter's Board is legally allowed to do X, doesn't mean that they will do X. They will use X to threaten Musk into doing Y (and Y is what they really want). I'm not sitting in Twitter's Board of Directors right now, I don't know what their "Plan Y" is. But I have reason to believe that X (ie: forcing Musk to buy Twitter at $54.20) isn't in their best interest.
• liaukovv 5y ago
  If they did that they would get sued by their own investors.
  • minsc_and_boo 5y ago
    Not if the board negotiates a lump sum settlement for breaking the contract instead. That's free money for Twitter shareholders. I don't think people are aware that the Twitter Board knew they were calling his bluff and are going to make him pay one way or another.
    • MrMan 5y ago
      I mostly agree with this
• mediaman 5y ago
  That is indeed the big question. The court case would go on for a long time, and in the meantime they'd be in this weird limbo and the business would suffer. What we're really seeing here is: can a very rich person completely flout a contract, ignore legal obligations he signed, and abuse the legal system to the point that contracts are basically unenforceable against him? Sure, he has no case, and there is no real conventional legal way to wiggle out of this, but that's not really the question, is it? As Matt Levine said in his column today, a merger arb told him that "if you're reading the contract, you've already lost." In all likelihood, it seems the most probable outcome is a modest adjustment of purchase price to further "secure the deal" (whatever that means). But Musk is a bit crazy, so while that's the most likely outcome, it's hard to say it with much confidence.
  • tikiman163 5y ago
    One particularly tricky nuance of contract law is that their must be someone with legal standing who wants the contract to be enforced. If Musk doesn't think he can put the funds together without damaging businesses he cares about more than owning Twitter, then he can pretty much just invoke the $B walk away if he wants to. The Twitter CEO and board were pretty clear they did not think Musk's acquisition was in the best interests of the Company, but they were legally obligated to consider an accept a fair offer of acquisition because it would be in the best interests of the share holders. Suddenly getting $1B without having to accept Musk as the new owner is beneficial to the share holders, and crucially tying up the company in a years long lawsuit to force Musk to acquire Twitter would be expensive, and until the contract is either completed or dissolved Twitter's fund raising options are greatly limited. Suing Musk for wanting out would not be a sound financial move and could even result in Twitter becoming insolvent. Their stock price could crash, their funds to continue the lawsuit exhausted, and most likely under those circumstances Musk would win and immediately turn around and buy Twitter for a far lower price. With that said, the only real question here is what will Musk do under the circumstances? Funding the acquisition could cause his other businesses to suffer or even fail. SpaceX is particularly vulnerable, and it wouldn't take much to end the Borring Company if Musk's finances are in a dangerous position. If he just walks away he's out $1B, assuming they'll allow it. That can't be a super attractive option. Most likely he's going to exhaust every avenue in an attempt to raise the cash without putting his other businesses at risk. But there's a clock on that, and he could end up owing Twitter a shit load if he stalls for too long.
• Bubble_Pop_22 5y ago
  > There's also the possibility of the Twitter Board's incompetence This has been repeated at nauseaum . Just because you don't know their names and aren't shitposting on social media they are not incompetent. They managed to screw Musk over, they basically looked at macroeconomics, regrouped after the initial no and sold Twitter to Musk at the very top of a 13 year old bubble in the making. If you look at Musk carrer each and every time he sold onto bigger fools. Compaq, Ebay and of course all the equity raises of his overvalued businesses. Twitter board managed to screw him over and demonstrate that only idiots don't change their minds, all in one swoop. They have the upper hand now. If everything goes as it should this would be like Trump election loss. Meaning a defeat that makes it so that you don't hear from a guy for a long time. A severe wound and an existential threat to the ego. We can only hope.
  • etrevino 5y ago
    The poster suggested the possibility that they're incompetent to create a counterfactual, not that they are.
    • rchaud 5y ago
      Oddly however, the other counterfactual of Musk being incompetent did not come up. This is after all, a person that paid the SEC $40m and has to have a company lawyer review what he tweets about Tesla.
      • Stupulous 5y ago
        It would not have made sense to discuss Musk's competence in context because Musk doesn't have autonomy over how Twitter chooses to respond to this.
        • Bubble_Pop_22 5y ago
          He has autonomy into buying the absolute top of the 13 year bubble. Locking the purchase price at t minus 4/6 months. In 4/6 months when the acquisition is completed the S&P could be at 3210 and he'd have paid 54.20/share. Or even sub 3000 if inflation becomes deeply entrenched in the economy.
• thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > digging deeper, the "people in the know" are now pointing out that this $1 Billion escape clause is actually very restrictive and unlikely to be invoked. Musk might be forced into buying Twitter at the previously negotiated $54.20 price. Matt Levine had a pretty different take, pointing out that if Elon Musk suddenly appears to be unwilling to buy Twitter, his financing might see that and - suddenly, but perfectly legitimately - evaporate, which would be a valid reason for Musk to walk away. It really is true that lending someone a lot of money to make an investment they aren't interested in is a much worse financial move than lending the same money to the same person to make an investment they are interested in.
  • danielmarkbruce 5y ago
    There is a best efforts covenant. They are in every merger agreement. Musk can't do this without being sued. Look at Section 6.3
  • HWR_14 5y ago
    I mean, if that's true it just goes one step back. Then his action breaking the contract would be to express equivalence or hostility towards the transaction.
  • thedufer 5y ago
    > Matt Levine had a pretty different take, pointing out that if Elon Musk suddenly appears to be unwilling to buy Twitter, his financing might see that and - suddenly, but perfectly legitimately - evaporate, which would be a valid reason for Musk to walk away. That was awhile ago. Since then, the funding agreements have been made public, and Matt's most recent take is that the funding basically can't disappear unless Musk can kill the deal via another route.
• krisoft 5y ago
  > There's also the possibility of the Twitter Board's incompetence. Maybe they don't realize the advantageous position they're in and give up before testing Musk in court? Yeah. Wealthy individuals advised by the best experts can't figure out what is good for them. Only if they would have someone in their orbit who knows how to read hacker news comments. </sarcasm>
  • LNSY 5y ago
    You have a hilarious amount of confidence about the competency of America's oligarchs. Elon is a financial scammer, his money all comes from government subsidies. He ain't as smart as you think he is.
    • HWR_14 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure the comment came from the other direction - that Twitter's board/CEO wasn't so inept they needed to be advised by HN.
    • mensetmanusman 5y ago
      Just like Boeing, Lockheed, GM, etc.
      • semanticist 5y ago
        Those companies don't have people worshipping them like they're a collective of geniuses. Musk's companies certainly aren't any worse than those companies - but they're no better either, and he's no Messiah.
        • OJFord 5y ago
          > he's no Messiah. Saying that on HN is just cruel: you know full well you have exactly the niche in your grip that simultaneously wants to exclaim.. the behavioural tendency of the child that he is, and bears the feeling 'no no, not here'...
    • Sporktacular 5y ago
• unclebucknasty 5y ago
  One thing to consider is that if he can show that something potentially material like the fake account percentage was incorrect, then that may offer him an out. Musk can claim that he relied on these numbers when making the offer. "Material misrepresentation" is the term he'd use and it just might work. There's an implied good faith in every contract, so irrespective of how "strict" the terms are, Twitter may have difficulty enforcing the agreement in this scenario. That is, Twitter would have had to literally disclose that these numbers were unreliable, and have Musk agree under those terms in order to not have a fight on their hands.