6 ms·

I get some public services need the tax money to function. But governments nowadays tax people beyond oblivion, specially in Europe.

speedgoose 4y ago
The average European has a good quality of life though.
- seibelj 4y ago
  Yeah it’s crazy why anyone emigrates from Europe to the US
  - chii 4y ago
    it's hard to get high wages in europe compared to america. So it makes sense to work in america for a while, save and invest, and eventually come back to europe to retire or live a more leisurely lifestyle.
    - seibelj 4y ago
      But their lifestyle is so much worse the moment they step foot in America
      - bowsamic 4y ago
      - mrep 4y ago
        This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone has the same lifestyle preferences as you do.
      - SZJX 4y ago
        That sounds like such an ideology-driven answer. Wonder if you’ve actually personally experienced working and living in both places.
  - version_five 4y ago
    This is pretty ignorant. Assuming your comment is based on a actual experience in both places (and ignoring how heterogeneous "Europe" and "the US" are), the comment is still equivalent to saying "it's crazy that someone has different priorities than me"
  - speedgoose 4y ago
    To improve their life? Immigration of qualified workers is a bit different.
  - 0daystock 4y ago
    - seibelj 4y ago
      I think my sarcasm is too dry in this thread
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Literally any EU country has a constitution, and follow the EU convention on human rights. Your rights are recognised, protected and that can't be changed without at least a supermajority, usually more. What's the difference?
      - 0daystock 4y ago
        I tried to explain but Europeans got extremely butthurt and flagged my comments.
    - Aachen 4y ago
      You'd probably love to learn of the European Convention on Human Rights. These rights go on top of whatever EU member states might have in their national laws. And it has its own independent court (ECHR).
      - 0daystock 4y ago
- dcolkitt 4y ago
  Americans enjoy substantially higher material consumption than their European counterparts. The US has 85% higher household consumption expenditures than France (about the median of the EU15). The difference between the US and France is about equivalent to the difference between France and Mexico. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...
  - speedgoose 4y ago
    Is it common to associate quality of life and consumption? I’m sure there is some correlation but it seems a bit strange, especially when you think about things France has such as universal free healthcare or free access to good education.
  - lioeters 4y ago
    "Good quality of life" is not the same as "higher material consumption", though the former is unquantifiable and subjective. As someone who has lived about equal amount of time in the U.S., I'd say I have better quality of life in Europe but less material consumption.
  - lexapro 4y ago
    Median wealth per adult in the US: $79,274 Median wealth per adult in France: $133,559 Mean wealth per adult is reversed (much higher in the US), because a few US billionaires are really really rich. But unless you're one of the few lucky billionaires, you're doing better living in France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
    - refurb 4y ago
      That’s the Credit Suisse report that includes things like natural resources. It’s entirely unrelated to actual individual wealth. So Canada gets credit for its uranium reserves and then divides it across the population. No relation whatsoever to actual cash in the bank. “ These figures are influenced by real estate prices, equity market prices, exchange rates, liabilities, debts, adult percentage of the population, human resources, natural resources and capital and technological advancements, which may create new assets or render others worthless in the future.”
- 0daystock 4y ago
  Meanwhile, the quality of life in America is great, not merely "good".
iamben 4y ago
Counterpoint - in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me. The place is generally tidy, amenities are good, emergency services efficient, roads good etc. (I appreciate there's always exceptions to this). I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state. My taxes cover this, and also cover those that can't pay. As such, life is (I expect) much better for those with less than it was a hundred years ago and society is probably happier and more stable as a whole. I don't know if we have it completely correct and there's definitely a balancing act. There's also growing inequality. But what's the right amount of tax to pay? Not referencing you directly, but I often see crypto threads that call for the government to "keep their hands of my money" - and I wonder if these people would still say the same thing when their bins weren't emptied, or the roads were so full of potholes the lambo couldn't drive on them etc etc.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  > society is probably happier and more stable as a whole. The pill capital of the world? Who can't decide which international alliances to run with? I was with you until this.
  - iamben 4y ago
    Than it was 100 years ago? I am by no means suggesting we have it right, but widening the gap between have an have not and then saying "we have, we're ok - you look after yourself" isn't exactly a recipe for stability.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  > in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me. Where the hell do you live in the UK because that’s certainly not true in Birmingham. I moved to Germany and got orthopaedics, MRI, and physio in the space of 3 weeks. Would have taken months in the UK during COVID. Have you actually tried using the NHS? > I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state. Also not true, the conservative government are very aggressive about taking away benefits
can16358p 4y ago
That was my concern too. Governments already have WAY TOO MUCH power and the last thing we should be doing is to make governments richer. Don't know about Germany but in my country government is corrupted and and tax paid is going straight into corruption. While mine is one of the worse, it's definitely not the only one. Do not support corruption.
vanviegen 4y ago
Incoming has been taxed for a long time. If new ways of obtaining such incoming arrise (crypto), wouldn't it be unfair not to tax them? That has little to do with greedy governments.

speedgoose 4y ago

The average European has a good quality of life though.

seibelj 4y ago
Yeah it’s crazy why anyone emigrates from Europe to the US
- chii 4y ago
  it's hard to get high wages in europe compared to america. So it makes sense to work in america for a while, save and invest, and eventually come back to europe to retire or live a more leisurely lifestyle.
  - seibelj 4y ago
    But their lifestyle is so much worse the moment they step foot in America
    - bowsamic 4y ago
    - mrep 4y ago
      This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone has the same lifestyle preferences as you do.
    - SZJX 4y ago
      That sounds like such an ideology-driven answer. Wonder if you’ve actually personally experienced working and living in both places.
- version_five 4y ago
  This is pretty ignorant. Assuming your comment is based on a actual experience in both places (and ignoring how heterogeneous "Europe" and "the US" are), the comment is still equivalent to saying "it's crazy that someone has different priorities than me"
- speedgoose 4y ago
  To improve their life? Immigration of qualified workers is a bit different.
- 0daystock 4y ago
  - seibelj 4y ago
    I think my sarcasm is too dry in this thread
  - sofixa 4y ago
    Literally any EU country has a constitution, and follow the EU convention on human rights. Your rights are recognised, protected and that can't be changed without at least a supermajority, usually more. What's the difference?
    - 0daystock 4y ago
      I tried to explain but Europeans got extremely butthurt and flagged my comments.
  - Aachen 4y ago
    You'd probably love to learn of the European Convention on Human Rights. These rights go on top of whatever EU member states might have in their national laws. And it has its own independent court (ECHR).
    - 0daystock 4y ago
dcolkitt 4y ago
Americans enjoy substantially higher material consumption than their European counterparts. The US has 85% higher household consumption expenditures than France (about the median of the EU15). The difference between the US and France is about equivalent to the difference between France and Mexico. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...
- speedgoose 4y ago
  Is it common to associate quality of life and consumption? I’m sure there is some correlation but it seems a bit strange, especially when you think about things France has such as universal free healthcare or free access to good education.
- lioeters 4y ago
  "Good quality of life" is not the same as "higher material consumption", though the former is unquantifiable and subjective. As someone who has lived about equal amount of time in the U.S., I'd say I have better quality of life in Europe but less material consumption.
- lexapro 4y ago
  Median wealth per adult in the US: $79,274 Median wealth per adult in France: $133,559 Mean wealth per adult is reversed (much higher in the US), because a few US billionaires are really really rich. But unless you're one of the few lucky billionaires, you're doing better living in France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...
  - refurb 4y ago
    That’s the Credit Suisse report that includes things like natural resources. It’s entirely unrelated to actual individual wealth. So Canada gets credit for its uranium reserves and then divides it across the population. No relation whatsoever to actual cash in the bank. “ These figures are influenced by real estate prices, equity market prices, exchange rates, liabilities, debts, adult percentage of the population, human resources, natural resources and capital and technological advancements, which may create new assets or render others worthless in the future.”
0daystock 4y ago
Meanwhile, the quality of life in America is great, not merely "good".

iamben 4y ago

Counterpoint - in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me. The place is generally tidy, amenities are good, emergency services efficient, roads good etc. (I appreciate there's always exceptions to this). I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state. My taxes cover this, and also cover those that can't pay. As such, life is (I expect) much better for those with less than it was a hundred years ago and society is probably happier and more stable as a whole. I don't know if we have it completely correct and there's definitely a balancing act. There's also growing inequality. But what's the right amount of tax to pay? Not referencing you directly, but I often see crypto threads that call for the government to "keep their hands of my money" - and I wonder if these people would still say the same thing when their bins weren't emptied, or the roads were so full of potholes the lambo couldn't drive on them etc etc.

aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
> society is probably happier and more stable as a whole. The pill capital of the world? Who can't decide which international alliances to run with? I was with you until this.
- iamben 4y ago
  Than it was 100 years ago? I am by no means suggesting we have it right, but widening the gap between have an have not and then saying "we have, we're ok - you look after yourself" isn't exactly a recipe for stability.
bowsamic 4y ago
> in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me. Where the hell do you live in the UK because that’s certainly not true in Birmingham. I moved to Germany and got orthopaedics, MRI, and physio in the space of 3 weeks. Would have taken months in the UK during COVID. Have you actually tried using the NHS? > I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state. Also not true, the conservative government are very aggressive about taking away benefits

can16358p 4y ago

That was my concern too. Governments already have WAY TOO MUCH power and the last thing we should be doing is to make governments richer. Don't know about Germany but in my country government is corrupted and and tax paid is going straight into corruption. While mine is one of the worse, it's definitely not the only one. Do not support corruption.

vanviegen 4y ago

Incoming has been taxed for a long time. If new ways of obtaining such incoming arrise (crypto), wouldn't it be unfair not to tax them? That has little to do with greedy governments.