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I also used to like him or at least respected him a bit more, I think the best way I can put it is that he seems lost in his own sauce. I remember listening to
by Avicebron 4y ago
I also used to like him or at least respected him a bit more, I think the best way I can put it is that he seems lost in his own sauce.
I remember listening to someone describe a conversation they had with him or where he was speaking, and he relayed that Elon was telling them that in his world he can't relate to people because to him its like everyone is a toddler mentally and he has to go down to their level....now, I just fully don't believe that, that sounds like the most contrived "I'm a genius peasants" story imaginable, something out of a movie.
- smt88 4y agoThis comes across in his public persona too. Elon's entire vibe is like a 14 year old who thinks they know everything and everyone else is stupid.
- jmprspret 4y agoI agree but I'm also unsure if he's putting on that persona because his audience has reacted to it in a positive way. Flanderisation, I think they call it?
- themitigating 4y agoMy mom called it "seeking negative attention"
- ascagnel_ 4y agoFlanderisation is a little different -- generally applied to fictional characters, its when a single trait overrides every other aspect of your personality. Ned Flanders on the Simpsons is the inspiration for the term: a character initially created as a foil and mirror for Homer Simpson (kind, calm, and collected where Homer is typically brash, emotional, and chaotic) became a one-note character defined by his faith. I guess you could kind of apply it to Musk in that he seems to revel in being something of a jerk, but (in the view of someone who's been very skeptical of Musk for a while) it's not an all-consuming thing.
- ra7 4y agoThat’s pretty evident with his technobabble. He uses just enough technical buzzwords that impress non-technical folks and acts like he is an expert in every topic he talks about.
- hef19898 4y agoCurrently being in my x-th, and out of order rewatch, of DS9 I kind of blame Star Trek for that. Technobabble, check. Geniusus saving the day and universe, check. Moral superiority, check. Throw in some Tony Stark vibes and you have it. And social media influencing.
- hnaccount141 4y ago> Technobabble, check. Geniusus saving the day and universe, check. Moral superiority, check. It's a shame that these are so often the takeaways from a show that is at its core about a group of people with different skillsets and backgrounds working together with mutual trust and respect to further a common goal.
- hef19898 4y agoI mentioned that it is my x-th tike watching DS9? I like Star Trek, there simply are some aspects that didn't age too well, or that I see differently now. As a comparison, back the day I t liked Babylon 5 better. Tried watching it again and just couldn't the way I can always rewatch ST TNG, DS9 or even Voyager.
- hnaccount141 4y agoApologies, I didn't mean that as a statement about you personally. I more meant to agree that those are aspects of Trek that many latch on to (while missing some of the healthier lessons).
- hef19898 4y agoTrek has a lot of those. Dax as a gender fluid character for example. Or Data being an artificial life form. The risk of the Federation becoming military dictatorship. On the other hand there is the fact that Starfleet is the de-facto military junta, a morally fine one of course. Or moral high horse crap like the prime directive. The overall optimism is good so, and especially DS9 did a good job in showing the ambivalency that comes from ideals meeting real politics. E.g. the arc between Sisko and the Maquis, having Sisko side with, of all people, war criminal Dukat.
- zozbot234 4y agoIt's not that uncommon among people with Asperger-like traits, which Musk has publicly acknowledged in 2021.
- croes 4y agoAcknowledged or claimed?
- lazyeye 4y agoElon would be completely forgiven if his politics were more left-wing than they currently are.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rasfincher 4y agoLike Michael Avenatti?
- Bud 4y agoPlease cite examples to support this, er, rather extraordinary assertion. Which prominent left-wing figures have acted like Elon Musk and have been "completely forgiven"?
- wowokay 4y agoI don’t think they were stating it as in they had examples, they were extrapolating from other left leaning activities like BLM vs Insurrection. Similar aggressive approaches but only insurrection gets attention as bad.
- hef19898 4y agoBLM protested police brutality. Jan 6th wanted to stop / prevent a democratic election process. Seems like different things to me.
- rayiner 4y agoDo you know engineers? I’ve had this conversation I can’t count how many times in my life.
- Avicebron 4y agoI do, I happen to be one, but I've never approached someone who wasn't an engineer like they have the mental capacity of a child (baring literal children). I can't play the cello, but I know music majors who can and they would struggle in Thermo. I don't see how anything but hubris can make someone see differently.
- rayiner 4y ago> I can't play the cello, but I know music majors who can and they would struggle in Thermo. You can use thermo to build civilization, but you can't use a cello to do that! > I don't see how anything but hubris can make someone see differently. We don't know the context of this conversation with Musk. In "just between us engineers" conversations, there's plenty of hubris to go around. It's not just engineers, of course. Many of the highly educated professionals I know will express demeaning opinions about religious people or rural folks after a few drinks. To be clear, I don't think being condescending is a virtue. But I don't see any reason to single Musk out for that specifically. I don't see him talking shit about how stupid everyone is, like many people do.
- zamfi 4y ago> You can use thermo to build civilization, but you can't use a cello to do that! Depends on how you define “civilization”!
- rayiner 4y agoI definite it in terms of inventing air conditioning: https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew-air-conditioning https://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8278085/singapore-lee-kuan-yew...
- kibwen 4y agoIt feels like Elon Musk read that anecdote about how von Neumann spoke with three year-olds as equals, and somehow managed to conclude that the lesson was about expressions of superiority rather than about expressions of empathy.
- planarhobbit 4y agoThe core difference is that von Neumann was a genius and did many, many things single handedly. I feel Musk is a businessman who would take credit for the work done by someone like von Neumann.
- chasd00 4y agowell given enough time who knows how history will judge Musk. Take Bill Gates, anyone working in tech in the 90s knows he's about as ruthless as you can possibly be. Now Gates is known as a saint as he tries to buy his way into heaven.
- kortex 4y agoHe seems to open up more when talking to people he considers "on his level" or at least deeply interested in what he is interested in. Take for example photographer and journalist Tim Dodd. Since Tim has a huge passion for rockets and actually wants to dig into the details of rocket engine cycles, manufacturing scale up - all the stuff Elon finds interesting - he really opens up. That's actually pretty common among those "gifted with mild ASD/ADHD" types, they can't be assed to talk about anything that doesn't pique their interest. I struggled with it a lot until I learned to be more social with other folks' topics of discussion. I think Elon is the logical endpoint of what happens when you have zero pressure to socially accommodate. It does seem like he's increasingly emboldened to act an ass since being crowned world's richest man.
- JKCalhoun 4y agoI watched those interviews on his Everyday Astronaut YouTube channel. Musk looked bored with Tim, was often evasive, gave the appearance of wanting to get away from a fanboy. The few times he would "open up" it was more like a recitation from someone to a disinterested audience — or as though Musk's mind was somewhere else, not really engaged or focused on the interviewer. EDIT: Skimming the two-part interview again, Musk seems to switch between seemingly being engaged to not. Maybe it is because the interview went on really long and appears to be uncut.
- kortex 4y agoThat's charitable. That was a really long interview/behind the scenes. I also interpreted it mostly as being tired (he normally works obscene hours and around this time he was particularly burning both ends). I think it's telling that he didn't tell Tim to scram or he even got that close of a look at all. If he wanted to get away, he could have easily done so. The disparity is even more obvious in the pressers when reporters ask typical reporter questions, vs when someone (often Tim, but there are others) asks something technical.
- rayiner 4y ago> The disparity is even more obvious in the pressers when reporters ask typical reporter questions, vs when someone (often Tim, but there are others) asks something technical. Can you even imagine being Musk and running an EV company and a rocket company and having to field questions from your typical journalists? Like that Q from a journalist about why the new image of the black home at the center of our galaxy is so blurry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31353677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31353677.
- alasdair_ 4y ago> I also used to like him or at least respected him a bit more, I think the best way I can put it is that he seems lost in his own sauce. Agreed. Musk has gone full Assange.
- mschuster91 4y agoAt least for Assange, one can say that being holed up for years in an embassy room and now having to face decades in an US prison (or even the death penalty!) isn't going to make anyone feel well.
- reacharavindh 4y agoI would have genuinely laughed out loud if someone said that to my face. My reaction would have been to give him a reality check - "My man, you may know some things, but definitely don't know it all!". Perhaps, also ask him - "Have you considered that some of those people considered talking to you as dealing with a toddler who thinks he knows it all?"
- johannes1234321 4y agoThen he laughs, turns away and talks to somebody else and leaves. He will still feel superior and not waste time. See for instance https://youtu.be/ye8zcgxWMDc https://youtu.be/ye8zcgxWMDc where he only stays as it's a major presse event (the guy buy his side was running for chancellor to succeed Merkel; and yeah the questions were "dumb" but with your questions you won't get a better response)
- Cthulhu_ 4y agoThat'll definitely teach him a lesson, I'm sure it would make him reflect on his behaviour and will make him a changed man.
- weego 4y agoHe's just a Steve Jobs who doesn't know to keep his worst traits hidden from the public eye.
- hef19898 4y agoMore like tye worst version of Jobs before his firing from Apple. And not just hiding his worst traits, but also unable of keepong them in check.
- bko 4y agoHow has he lost his sauce? He's actually delivering on his two major companies. He's shipping electric cars at an insane growth rate. He's doing what car companies had 100 years to do and still can't get right in the US. All the other electric car companies are basically vaporware VC money pits. He's also delivering on SpaceX. I get it, you don't like his politics or share his sense of humor but don't pretend like he's some unhinged twitter personality. Tesla revenue for the quarter ending March 31, 2022 was $18.756B, a 80.54% increase year-over-year. Tesla revenue for the twelve months ending March 31, 2022 was $59.810B, a 74.73% increase year-over-year. Tesla annual revenue for 2021 was $53.823B, a 70.67% increase from 2020. Tesla annual revenue for 2020 was $31.536B, a 28.31% increase from 2019. Tesla annual revenue for 2019 was $24.578B, a 14.52% increase from 2018. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/revenue https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/revenue
- bengale 4y ago> he seems lost in his own sauce I read this as a polite way of saying he's up his own arse, which seems accurate.
- bko 4y agoSure he's arrogant but I wouldn't rank his accomplishments and person hood by tweets. He has an incredible record as an engineering manager and investor and to brush that off is just silly.
- otterley 4y agoI will brush that off, because the character of our leadership matters. It would be a regrettable outcome if our next generation of leaders acts as boorishly as Elon Musk does. We want leaders who inspire others to be the best version of themselves, and that includes treating others with respect and care.
- houseofzeus 4y agoHigh on his own gas.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoMy thoughts on this are that extremely smart, hard-charging people with heavy narcissistic traits are "constrained" in their earlier years by: 1. They still need to follow the basic rules of society, i.e. people haven't started "God-Emperor Elon" memes yet, so not every single person is going to bow down. 2. Before they've achieved amazing success, they aren't 100% confident in their other-wordly abilities. Now, given his success with PayPal, Tesla, and Space-X, it's easy for him to believe his own press. Thus, Elon is now at the point where all of his negative traits are essentially allowed to "run wild" because they are constrained neither by society at large, nor his own doubts.
- unsupp0rted 4y agoI still respect him, probably more every year. I never liked him before and probably won't in the future. I doubt I'd like anybody who's literally dragging humanity into the future, but he is doing that. Whether he's doing it right, or whether he's doing it well is an open question, but no other single person is to this degree shoving humanity forward this often and this much, as far as I know.