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> We face what could be the greatest predicament humankind has ever encountered: feeding the world without devouring the planet. Already, farming is the world’s

> We face what could be the greatest predicament humankind has ever encountered: feeding the world without devouring the planet. Already, farming is the world’s greatest cause of habitat destruction, the greatest cause of the global loss of wildlife and the greatest cause of the global extinction crisis. It’s responsible for about 80% of the deforestation that’s happened this century. Of 28,000 species known to be at imminent risk of extinction, 24,000 are threatened by farming. Only 29% of the weight of birds on Earth consists of wild species: the rest is poultry. Just 4% of the world’s mammals, by weight, are wild; humans account for 36%, and livestock for the remaining 60%. > ... While 1% of the world’s land is used for buildings and infrastructure, crops occupy 12% and grazing, the most extensive kind of farming, uses 28%. Only 15% of land, by contrast, is protected for nature. Yet the meat and milk from animals that rely solely on grazing provide just 1% of the world’s protein. It's unreal when framing this as the "greatest predicament humankind has ever encountered" and all the stats pointing to intensive animal agriculture as the obvious problem that "eat less meat" isn't entertained as a serious option. We're literally growing food to feed to animals that we bred ourselves, while losing ~90% of the calories in the process instead of eating crops directly when meat isn't required to be healthy. I don't share the high hopes people have with things like lab grown meat either as we've been waiting for years for it to arrive at scale and affordable, and it's not going to replace all the cuts of meat people want. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets "If everyone shifted to a plant-based diet we would reduce global land use for agriculture by 75%. This large reduction of agricultural land use would be possible thanks to a reduction in land used for grazing and a smaller need for land to grow crops."

Melatonic 4y ago
Fungi in general are amazing - it blows me away that in western culture we place such little emphasis on their consumption. There are three kingdoms (for the most part) that we can choose to consume - Plants, Animals, Fungi. And yet we just almost ignore the third one for what reason again? Many mushrooms are also a great meat alternative and have tons of health benefits not found elsewhere and can be great for the environment. They are, for the most part, less concentrated in protein than animals but still much higher than most plants.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  > They are, for the most part, less concentrated in protein than animals but still much higher than most plants. According to Wikipedia, mushrooms generally have less than 5% protein. Almost every plant food I checked was higher, including wheat (15%), corn (10%), rice (8%), and potatoes (9%). (from United States Department of Agriculture). Protein rich plants like lentils, soybeans, and nuts are upwards of 30%.
- meetups323 4y ago
  Some meat substitutes use fungus. IMO they tend to produce the best chicken substitutes, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn
QuikAccount 4y ago
> We're literally growing food to feed to animals that we bred ourselves, while losing ~90% of the calories in the process instead of eating crops directly when meat isn't required to be healthy. Most animal feed is the byproduct of things we are not eating[1]. This same study also address the land use concern. Most of it is not fit to grow crops with. I agree that people should reduce meat consumption but I find the general framing around this topic to be dishonest. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22119...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- seanwilson 4y ago
  How does this contradict the 75% land reduction link where they take into account land used for animal crops? They cite this study too so they're aware of it and cover that "Less than half – only 48% – of the world’s cereals are eaten by humans. 41% is used for animal feed, and 11% for biofuels".
cato_the_elder 4y ago
> "eat less meat" isn't entertained as a serious option It's simply baffling that this always gets brought up without stating the obvious fact that many people love to eat meat, and have no obligation to put up with the boring diet these policies would impose on them. And I think this is yet another reason that the naive libertarian attitude of "I just wanna grill" (which I am also guilty of subscribing to until a few years ago) is a recipe for disaster. If we don't actively stand against these policies, soon the only thing you can grill would be veggies. Some think this is unlikely to happen. But the paper straws debacle tells us that a vocal minority can impose these things on others. And remember that Japan was vegetarian for centuries before the Great Emperor Meiji liberated them from the ideology [1]. [1]: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japan-meat-ban https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japan-meat-ban
- ehejdud 4y ago
  I find your opinion on it baffling as well. The obvious fact is that is a selfish attitude. Do what you want, but that is a fact. I don't think the animals feel very liberated either if you consider other life forms.
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  You can love to eat meat, but still eat less of it. Many Americans are eating meat for literally every meal of the day, 7 days a week. That's complete overkill and one may even get more enjoyment out of meat by cutting back slightly on consumption. And I'm not sure where you get that "eat less meat" would be imposed on people, as opposed to individuals just choosing to eat less meat(like I have). The "I need to eat meat every meal" crowd reminds me of a morbidly-obese person saying "I just like food more than you do". Maybe in limited circumstances it is true, but for the most part it seems more like a pathological dependence rather than harmless desire.
  - voisin 4y ago
    > You can love to eat meat, but still eat less of it. Many Americans are eating meat for literally every meal of the day, 7 days a week. And this tends to mean eating low quality meat. Eat less, but higher quality.

Melatonic 4y ago

Fungi in general are amazing - it blows me away that in western culture we place such little emphasis on their consumption. There are three kingdoms (for the most part) that we can choose to consume - Plants, Animals, Fungi. And yet we just almost ignore the third one for what reason again? Many mushrooms are also a great meat alternative and have tons of health benefits not found elsewhere and can be great for the environment. They are, for the most part, less concentrated in protein than animals but still much higher than most plants.

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
> They are, for the most part, less concentrated in protein than animals but still much higher than most plants. According to Wikipedia, mushrooms generally have less than 5% protein. Almost every plant food I checked was higher, including wheat (15%), corn (10%), rice (8%), and potatoes (9%). (from United States Department of Agriculture). Protein rich plants like lentils, soybeans, and nuts are upwards of 30%.
meetups323 4y ago
Some meat substitutes use fungus. IMO they tend to produce the best chicken substitutes, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn

QuikAccount 4y ago

> We're literally growing food to feed to animals that we bred ourselves, while losing ~90% of the calories in the process instead of eating crops directly when meat isn't required to be healthy. Most animal feed is the byproduct of things we are not eating[1]. This same study also address the land use concern. Most of it is not fit to grow crops with. I agree that people should reduce meat consumption but I find the general framing around this topic to be dishonest. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22119...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
seanwilson 4y ago
How does this contradict the 75% land reduction link where they take into account land used for animal crops? They cite this study too so they're aware of it and cover that "Less than half – only 48% – of the world’s cereals are eaten by humans. 41% is used for animal feed, and 11% for biofuels".

cato_the_elder 4y ago

> "eat less meat" isn't entertained as a serious option It's simply baffling that this always gets brought up without stating the obvious fact that many people love to eat meat, and have no obligation to put up with the boring diet these policies would impose on them. And I think this is yet another reason that the naive libertarian attitude of "I just wanna grill" (which I am also guilty of subscribing to until a few years ago) is a recipe for disaster. If we don't actively stand against these policies, soon the only thing you can grill would be veggies. Some think this is unlikely to happen. But the paper straws debacle tells us that a vocal minority can impose these things on others. And remember that Japan was vegetarian for centuries before the Great Emperor Meiji liberated them from the ideology [1]. [1]: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japan-meat-ban https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japan-meat-ban

ehejdud 4y ago
I find your opinion on it baffling as well. The obvious fact is that is a selfish attitude. Do what you want, but that is a fact. I don't think the animals feel very liberated either if you consider other life forms.
oh_sigh 4y ago
You can love to eat meat, but still eat less of it. Many Americans are eating meat for literally every meal of the day, 7 days a week. That's complete overkill and one may even get more enjoyment out of meat by cutting back slightly on consumption. And I'm not sure where you get that "eat less meat" would be imposed on people, as opposed to individuals just choosing to eat less meat(like I have). The "I need to eat meat every meal" crowd reminds me of a morbidly-obese person saying "I just like food more than you do". Maybe in limited circumstances it is true, but for the most part it seems more like a pathological dependence rather than harmless desire.
- voisin 4y ago
  > You can love to eat meat, but still eat less of it. Many Americans are eating meat for literally every meal of the day, 7 days a week. And this tends to mean eating low quality meat. Eat less, but higher quality.