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This is the true face of the EU. Anyone who opposes it will be branded as a child molester. Even if the parliament rejects this proposal, the next power hungry

This is the true face of the EU. Anyone who opposes it will be branded as a child molester. Even if the parliament rejects this proposal, the next power hungry authoritarian can simply try again, until eventually one parliament will pass it. You can be either in support of total surveillance, or in support of abolishing the EU. There is no middle ground.

AlbertoGP 4y ago
> Even if the parliament rejects this proposal, the next power hungry authoritarian can simply try again, until eventually one parliament will pass it. Indeed, in the words of the previous President of the European Commission: “We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.” https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 The current President of the European Commission has been a long time advocate for Internet control: “However, in the digital community, her posturing for the EU’s top job has caused concern. In 2000, when Von Der Leyen was Families minister, she advocated for the mandatory blocking of child pornography online via a list of offending websites managed by police authorities. Germany’s Pirate Party claimed that the law would lead to censorship of the internet.” “The outcry that resulted was dubbed the ‘Zensursula’ scandal, blending the German word for censorship (“Zensur”) and her name (“Ursula”). The move was eventually repealed after it being challenged broadly, including a petition that had garnered tens of thousands of signatures.” https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-von-der-leyens-censorship-worries/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-...
- hkwerf 4y ago
  I can finally wear my Zensursula t-shirt again! https://www.getdigital.de/zensursula.html https://www.getdigital.de/zensursula.html
  - q-big 4y ago
    Relevant for the readers who are somewhat fluent in German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4vbdusj7Pk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4vbdusj7Pk
sharken 4y ago
We can't have nice things it seems. Overall EU is a good idea, but total surveillance is a scary, scary concept that must be avoided at all cost, even at the cost of EU as concept.
jotm 4y ago
Oh please, that's like saying "you either become rich or kill yourself". Ridiculous. This kind of shit pops up everywhere, not only the EU. I have no idea what tf is driving it, probably the same thing that turned many countries into dictatorships. Human nature, really, but how these assholes always get into power is a mystery to me.
- DontMindit 4y ago
  N.VV.0 or whatever name you want to give them. Its world wide, its coming and theres no escape
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> This is the true face of the EU. Why is it so popular to bash EU here over non sequitur? is it jealousy or simply anti EU people not being able to mouth their opinions among their EU peers in Europe because they would be laughed at?
- grnmamba 4y ago
  Is that a rhetorical question? I'm bashing the EU because they are trying to create a surveillance state.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > I'm bashing the EU because they are trying to create a surveillance state. If that was true, we would all be worried. Have you ever thought that your paranoia is not proof of anything? Meanwhile: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Uni... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie... I am still worried about facts, especially those carried out by agencies working secretively under practically no control by the people, that sometimes also spy on those same people they are sworn to protect. Anyway, EU is not a State, so EU can't technically build a surveillance State. EU is not the NSA.
    - DontMindit 4y ago
      EU and NSA, same actors, different starting conditions
      - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        > EU and NSA, same actors, different starting conditions that's frankly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read in my entire life. Care to explain what's your rationale behind it? Where's, for example, the European Snowden? Where's proof of EU spying not only allied leaders, which is already bad enough, but the citizens of the country they work for?
Abroszka 4y ago
EU has nothing to do with it. Just look at UK, outside the EU still doing the same thing. It's a global trend. It's more or less irrelevant what kind of country you live in, people are pushing to end E2E encryption.
- grishka 4y ago
  People or governments?
aasasd 4y ago
If you replace ‘EU’ with ‘US’ in that comment, its internal logic and validity does not change whatsoever. So: “You can be either in support of total surveillance, or in support of abolishing the US. There is no middle ground.” I would also guess that you could substitute the EU with any single EU country with the same result. Abolish Germany, abolish France, abolish Italy, abolish all parliaments, there's no middle ground.
_Algernon_ 4y ago
>You can be either in support of total surveillance, or in support of abolishing the EU. Most obvious false dichotomy I've seen. Try harder.

AlbertoGP 4y ago

> Even if the parliament rejects this proposal, the next power hungry authoritarian can simply try again, until eventually one parliament will pass it. Indeed, in the words of the previous President of the European Commission: “We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.” https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker#1999 The current President of the European Commission has been a long time advocate for Internet control: “However, in the digital community, her posturing for the EU’s top job has caused concern. In 2000, when Von Der Leyen was Families minister, she advocated for the mandatory blocking of child pornography online via a list of offending websites managed by police authorities. Germany’s Pirate Party claimed that the law would lead to censorship of the internet.” “The outcry that resulted was dubbed the ‘Zensursula’ scandal, blending the German word for censorship (“Zensur”) and her name (“Ursula”). The move was eventually repealed after it being challenged broadly, including a petition that had garnered tens of thousands of signatures.” https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-von-der-leyens-censorship-worries/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/digital/news/digital-brief-...

hkwerf 4y ago
I can finally wear my Zensursula t-shirt again! https://www.getdigital.de/zensursula.html https://www.getdigital.de/zensursula.html
- q-big 4y ago
  Relevant for the readers who are somewhat fluent in German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4vbdusj7Pk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4vbdusj7Pk

sharken 4y ago

We can't have nice things it seems. Overall EU is a good idea, but total surveillance is a scary, scary concept that must be avoided at all cost, even at the cost of EU as concept.

jotm 4y ago

Oh please, that's like saying "you either become rich or kill yourself". Ridiculous. This kind of shit pops up everywhere, not only the EU. I have no idea what tf is driving it, probably the same thing that turned many countries into dictatorships. Human nature, really, but how these assholes always get into power is a mystery to me.

DontMindit 4y ago
N.VV.0 or whatever name you want to give them. Its world wide, its coming and theres no escape

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> This is the true face of the EU. Why is it so popular to bash EU here over non sequitur? is it jealousy or simply anti EU people not being able to mouth their opinions among their EU peers in Europe because they would be laughed at?

grnmamba 4y ago
Is that a rhetorical question? I'm bashing the EU because they are trying to create a surveillance state.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > I'm bashing the EU because they are trying to create a surveillance state. If that was true, we would all be worried. Have you ever thought that your paranoia is not proof of anything? Meanwhile: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Uni... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie... I am still worried about facts, especially those carried out by agencies working secretively under practically no control by the people, that sometimes also spy on those same people they are sworn to protect. Anyway, EU is not a State, so EU can't technically build a surveillance State. EU is not the NSA.
  - DontMindit 4y ago
    EU and NSA, same actors, different starting conditions
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > EU and NSA, same actors, different starting conditions that's frankly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read in my entire life. Care to explain what's your rationale behind it? Where's, for example, the European Snowden? Where's proof of EU spying not only allied leaders, which is already bad enough, but the citizens of the country they work for?

Abroszka 4y ago

EU has nothing to do with it. Just look at UK, outside the EU still doing the same thing. It's a global trend. It's more or less irrelevant what kind of country you live in, people are pushing to end E2E encryption.

grishka 4y ago
People or governments?

aasasd 4y ago

If you replace ‘EU’ with ‘US’ in that comment, its internal logic and validity does not change whatsoever. So: “You can be either in support of total surveillance, or in support of abolishing the US. There is no middle ground.” I would also guess that you could substitute the EU with any single EU country with the same result. Abolish Germany, abolish France, abolish Italy, abolish all parliaments, there's no middle ground.

_Algernon_ 4y ago

>You can be either in support of total surveillance, or in support of abolishing the EU. Most obvious false dichotomy I've seen. Try harder.