3 ms·

This guy misses the point - classic pro Oil & Gas rant on how they are the boogie man. The point is that we don't want to be beholden to oil and gas going forw

This guy misses the point - classic pro Oil & Gas rant on how they are the boogie man. The point is that we don't want to be beholden to oil and gas going forward. Look at all the campaigns to put out misinformation about oil and gas by the Oil Majors (since the 1980s). Yes Oil and Gas is part of the economy and all of its various products, but let's not make it the lynchpin and let's decarbonize our energy systems. Every time these guys (oil executives or proxies) open their mouths you really see how much they don't understand the landscape outside of oil and gas industry. Also remember this a polished message, I'd be curious to see their backroom conversations...

slowmovintarget 5y ago
How does one make a plastic jacket without plastic? Delivery and shipping aside, the basic raw materials for plastics come from the petrochemical industry colloquially referred to as "Oil & Gas." Personally, I'd be in favor of banning plastics from garments as they are the single largest source of microplastic pollution and non-recyclable consumer goods on the market. But if you make plastic garments, you're part of the precipitate.
- admax88qqq 5y ago
  Maybe you dont make a plastic jacket without plastic. Buy maybe you don't burn tons of oil in cars and planes you can maken a shit ton of plastic jackets without spewing nearly as many greenhouse gasses. Decarbonize doesn't mean we have to use 0 oil, it means we have to use way less.
- droopyEyelids 5y ago
  What is odd to me, is that they call out North Face instead of Patagonia- Patagonia is working hard to ensure their clothing is ONLY plastic, trying to completely remove all natural fibers and materials from their offerings. North face still has plenty of cotton and wool options.
  - neon_electro 5y ago
    Source for this? I've typically been happy to buy pre-owned Patagonia clothes from their own pre-owned store, but I hadn't heard this news.
  - telotortium 5y ago
    Pretty sure Patagonia is trying to make their clothing only plastic so that it's easier to recycle - recycling a homogeneous material is not too hard, but recycling a blend of polyester and cotton (or whatever) is uneconomical.
- snowwrestler 5y ago
  In the short run, you try to make new plastic jackets out of old plastic: https://www.patagonia.com/our-footprint/recycled-polyester.html https://www.patagonia.com/our-footprint/recycled-polyester.h... In the long run, there’s really no reason plastics can’t be made directly from recent organic matter. Starting with oil gives you an energetic boost, but if you’ve got clean energy to spare, in theory you don’t need it. In practice though, it’s hard and there is a long way to go. It’s hard to imagine how one would get similar performance from non-plastic garments. Before plastic, top-notch outer wear was oiled cotton canvas. But you are right about microplastic pollution.
- oconnore 5y ago
  Plastic can be synthesized via syngas (a mix of hydrogen and carbon monoxide), which itself can be produced through sustainable mechanisms like biofuels or hydrogen electrolysis and CO2 capture. That process starts from a lower energy level than starting from methane or oil, and so overall its more expensive. We would have to be willing to commit to generating a "surplus" of carbon-free power (e.g. nuclear, wind, solar) to support that sort of manufacturing, but it would be possible. Also, a great thing about running electrochemical processes off of a periodic energy source like solar or wind is that the economics are easy to load-shift -- you care about the aggregate work output, not the consistency of work output.
- Melatonic 5y ago
  The problem is that for some garments plastic really is just a far superior textile performance wise. I agree that microplastic pollution is a huge problem but I think a better method would be to find ways to minimize the shedding of plastics from a garment than completely banning it. Some "plastic" garments also shed MUCH more than others (basically the extra extra soft and fuzzy polyester fleece garments are the worst) while others shed very little and also need less washing as well (such as a waterproof shell)
throw93232 5y ago
》The point is that we don't want to be beholden to oil and gas going forward. Perhaps we could have a referendum about it.

slowmovintarget 5y ago

How does one make a plastic jacket without plastic? Delivery and shipping aside, the basic raw materials for plastics come from the petrochemical industry colloquially referred to as "Oil & Gas." Personally, I'd be in favor of banning plastics from garments as they are the single largest source of microplastic pollution and non-recyclable consumer goods on the market. But if you make plastic garments, you're part of the precipitate.

admax88qqq 5y ago
Maybe you dont make a plastic jacket without plastic. Buy maybe you don't burn tons of oil in cars and planes you can maken a shit ton of plastic jackets without spewing nearly as many greenhouse gasses. Decarbonize doesn't mean we have to use 0 oil, it means we have to use way less.
droopyEyelids 5y ago
What is odd to me, is that they call out North Face instead of Patagonia- Patagonia is working hard to ensure their clothing is ONLY plastic, trying to completely remove all natural fibers and materials from their offerings. North face still has plenty of cotton and wool options.
- neon_electro 5y ago
  Source for this? I've typically been happy to buy pre-owned Patagonia clothes from their own pre-owned store, but I hadn't heard this news.
- telotortium 5y ago
  Pretty sure Patagonia is trying to make their clothing only plastic so that it's easier to recycle - recycling a homogeneous material is not too hard, but recycling a blend of polyester and cotton (or whatever) is uneconomical.
snowwrestler 5y ago
In the short run, you try to make new plastic jackets out of old plastic: https://www.patagonia.com/our-footprint/recycled-polyester.html https://www.patagonia.com/our-footprint/recycled-polyester.h... In the long run, there’s really no reason plastics can’t be made directly from recent organic matter. Starting with oil gives you an energetic boost, but if you’ve got clean energy to spare, in theory you don’t need it. In practice though, it’s hard and there is a long way to go. It’s hard to imagine how one would get similar performance from non-plastic garments. Before plastic, top-notch outer wear was oiled cotton canvas. But you are right about microplastic pollution.
oconnore 5y ago
Plastic can be synthesized via syngas (a mix of hydrogen and carbon monoxide), which itself can be produced through sustainable mechanisms like biofuels or hydrogen electrolysis and CO2 capture. That process starts from a lower energy level than starting from methane or oil, and so overall its more expensive. We would have to be willing to commit to generating a "surplus" of carbon-free power (e.g. nuclear, wind, solar) to support that sort of manufacturing, but it would be possible. Also, a great thing about running electrochemical processes off of a periodic energy source like solar or wind is that the economics are easy to load-shift -- you care about the aggregate work output, not the consistency of work output.
Melatonic 5y ago
The problem is that for some garments plastic really is just a far superior textile performance wise. I agree that microplastic pollution is a huge problem but I think a better method would be to find ways to minimize the shedding of plastics from a garment than completely banning it. Some "plastic" garments also shed MUCH more than others (basically the extra extra soft and fuzzy polyester fleece garments are the worst) while others shed very little and also need less washing as well (such as a waterproof shell)

throw93232 5y ago

》The point is that we don't want to be beholden to oil and gas going forward. Perhaps we could have a referendum about it.