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My co-founder from a past startup and I were once pitching a well-known investor. He put his feet up on the table and pulled out his phone. My co-founder pause

My co-founder from a past startup and I were once pitching a well-known investor. He put his feet up on the table and pulled out his phone. My co-founder paused, and very calmly said something like "X, if this isn't a good use of your time then tell us so we don't waste ours, either". He immediately put his feet down, his phone face down on the table, and politely paid attention the rest of the pitch. He obviously didn't invest but we walked out of there with our heads held high.

TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
i've found alot of people do this and it's accepted in alot of places but others find it really rude. When i worked at Tesla everyone was on their laptops answering emails/ working in meetings. I don't think it takes your full attention to listen to someone, but i guess it's a bit different if you were just pitching him and not a room full of people.
- Flankk 4y ago
  "Walk out of a meeting or drop off a call as soon as it is obvious you aren't adding value. It is not rude to leave, it is rude to make someone stay and waste their time."
  - TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
    yeah, but sometimes i do need to be vaguely aware of whats being discussed. Rapidly changing from topic to topic but having everyone in a conference room while everyone is working is highly effective. People can jump in and give input on the topic they were half listening too. How many times someone has said "Oh, i have a supplier for that" or "I wrote a script for that". The above example is really off topic from "He was on his phone while we were pitching" but i think it applies to the fact that smart people are actually really good at multi-tasking, bad a social ques and norms but you shouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Walk out of a meeting is one thing. start doing other work in the meeting is different
  - rpastuszak 4y ago
    What worked in some of my previous orgs: - During a retro decide to have a quota of meetings left early/skipped as a team action/working agreement. - Keep inviting people as you are, but mark everyone as optional. - No phones, no laptops (unless they're for taking notes)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Oddskar 4y ago
  > I don't think it takes your full attention to listen to someone I disagree to this with every fiber of my being. If you're multitasking doing something that requires anything beyond mechanical tasks then you're not really listening. I challenge you to actually try and listen to a person with a completely silenced mind. It's surprisingly hard.
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    "If you're multitasking doing something that requires anything beyond mechanical tasks then you're not really listening." I often listen to podcasts and videos on 2x or even 3x speed because the speaker talks so slow. When they talk slow and the amount of information they're relaying is relatively low or mostly familiar, my mind tends to drift and I can actually multitask relatively well. It's when I speed up the rate at which they're speaking that it becomes more difficult to multitask, until at last I really need to concentrate in order to follow what they're saying and then my focus remains glued to the speaker. That said, I do think it's rude to focus on anything else when one is interviewing someone. They should have your full attention, or you shouldn't be there.
aunty_helen 4y ago
I had something similar where the staff member at a Vc firm welcomed us with “there’s just been another meeting called in the office next to me, you guys go ahead with your pitch and I’ll just keep and ear out for what’s going on over there” We could’ve pitched to ourselves on a blank zoom call and come out more confidente. The worst part, we spent a bit of time on that presentation and really tried to make it less boring. Fuck you Icehouse ventures.
- daenz 4y ago
  Should have just walked out. If you take the role of someone who will be humiliated like that, then you will be treated that way. You made the most of it by using it as practice, but you also painted yourselves as people who were desperate for scraps. Remember, you are the prize, not them (to an extent). Don't lower your value in their eyes.
  - aunty_helen 4y ago
    To be honesty, it meant a lot to us to be there and in the moment I just wasn't able to process what was actually happening. The NZ startup funding scene is bare and so the guys with money now think they're gods. But very true, ultimate beta move.
    - daenz 4y ago
      Don't be too hard on yourself. As long as you learn from it and use it for the next encounters, it is a net gain. What happened with your startup btw?
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      Yeah encouraging more founders to hop on a flight to california.
wazoox 4y ago
Ah yeah, I remember that guy that was supposedly the investor's expert that we met right after lunch.Obviously his meal was copious and also helped with large servings of alcoholic beverage, so after 15 minutes of our explanations (we were sitting in front of him at his desk) he started snoring audibly with his head down on his chest... We looked at each other and waited for a solid minute before trying to wake him up with some gentle coughing.
daenz 4y ago
Sounds like a "shit test", as in "how much shit will these people take." It's a blunt way to understand if someone will be pushed around. I don't know if this was his purpose, but you don't want to invest in someone who will get pushed around and taken advantage of.
- rpastuszak 4y ago
  Hehe, that's such a macho way of thinking. I have a little tingling sensation that we could use more women in positions of power in tech. We might benefit from slightly different ways of thinking about working with fellow human beings. (In case that wasn't clear, I agree with your point. I'm just a bit sad about the language and mindset you're describing!)
  - daenz 4y ago
    >Hehe, that's such a macho way of thinking. I have a little tingling sensation that we could use more women in positions of power in tech. If you look up the origin of the phrase "shit test", you will find a lot of irony in this statement :)
    - rpastuszak 4y ago
      Yes, I knew about it when I wrote the comment. I guess men are just better at this!
    - bGl2YW5j 4y ago
      The majority of references I could find were on Urban Dictionary and other ‘how to not be a beta’ type sites. Hardly reputable sources or places that stand up for women.
  - GeorgeWBasic 4y ago
    You think women don't do shit tests?
- walrus01 4y ago
  you also don't want to take investment money from the sort of VC egotist who thinks running a "shit test" is a standard operating procedure. treat people with respect or just don't schedule the meeting at all in the first place.
ergocoder 4y ago
The wording is a bit confrontational. I'd just ask if this is a good time. Otherwise, we can reschedule. Then, I can decide later whether I will actually reschedule. It is never a good idea to add shading like that.
- throwaway_1928 4y ago
  Or not confrontational enough.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I dont think it is shade, it is direct and to the point.
- saila 4y ago
  The advice to not add "shade" seems to be predicated on some perceived power differential, but everyone's time is equally valuable. Regardless, I don't see any shade. It's just direct and to the point.
  - ergocoder 4y ago
    "Shade" is subjective. It is better to ensure there is no shade at all. > perceived power differential Not really. It is game theory. You earn nothing by throwing shade apart from emotional satisfaction. It is only beneficial to go above and beyond to ensure nobody feels any shade to anybody. You never what you will need in the future. > everyone's time is equally valuable Trying to repeat a tautological statement is a shade, IMO.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      Game theory without taking human memory and emotion is flawed. If you never see the person again and you've held your head high you will feel more confident. If you play game theory the emotional damage might haunt your next interview.
      - 4y ago

TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago

i've found alot of people do this and it's accepted in alot of places but others find it really rude. When i worked at Tesla everyone was on their laptops answering emails/ working in meetings. I don't think it takes your full attention to listen to someone, but i guess it's a bit different if you were just pitching him and not a room full of people.

Flankk 4y ago
"Walk out of a meeting or drop off a call as soon as it is obvious you aren't adding value. It is not rude to leave, it is rude to make someone stay and waste their time."
- TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
  yeah, but sometimes i do need to be vaguely aware of whats being discussed. Rapidly changing from topic to topic but having everyone in a conference room while everyone is working is highly effective. People can jump in and give input on the topic they were half listening too. How many times someone has said "Oh, i have a supplier for that" or "I wrote a script for that". The above example is really off topic from "He was on his phone while we were pitching" but i think it applies to the fact that smart people are actually really good at multi-tasking, bad a social ques and norms but you shouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Walk out of a meeting is one thing. start doing other work in the meeting is different
- rpastuszak 4y ago
  What worked in some of my previous orgs: - During a retro decide to have a quota of meetings left early/skipped as a team action/working agreement. - Keep inviting people as you are, but mark everyone as optional. - No phones, no laptops (unless they're for taking notes)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Oddskar 4y ago
> I don't think it takes your full attention to listen to someone I disagree to this with every fiber of my being. If you're multitasking doing something that requires anything beyond mechanical tasks then you're not really listening. I challenge you to actually try and listen to a person with a completely silenced mind. It's surprisingly hard.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "If you're multitasking doing something that requires anything beyond mechanical tasks then you're not really listening." I often listen to podcasts and videos on 2x or even 3x speed because the speaker talks so slow. When they talk slow and the amount of information they're relaying is relatively low or mostly familiar, my mind tends to drift and I can actually multitask relatively well. It's when I speed up the rate at which they're speaking that it becomes more difficult to multitask, until at last I really need to concentrate in order to follow what they're saying and then my focus remains glued to the speaker. That said, I do think it's rude to focus on anything else when one is interviewing someone. They should have your full attention, or you shouldn't be there.

aunty_helen 4y ago

I had something similar where the staff member at a Vc firm welcomed us with “there’s just been another meeting called in the office next to me, you guys go ahead with your pitch and I’ll just keep and ear out for what’s going on over there” We could’ve pitched to ourselves on a blank zoom call and come out more confidente. The worst part, we spent a bit of time on that presentation and really tried to make it less boring. Fuck you Icehouse ventures.

daenz 4y ago
Should have just walked out. If you take the role of someone who will be humiliated like that, then you will be treated that way. You made the most of it by using it as practice, but you also painted yourselves as people who were desperate for scraps. Remember, you are the prize, not them (to an extent). Don't lower your value in their eyes.
- aunty_helen 4y ago
  To be honesty, it meant a lot to us to be there and in the moment I just wasn't able to process what was actually happening. The NZ startup funding scene is bare and so the guys with money now think they're gods. But very true, ultimate beta move.
  - daenz 4y ago
    Don't be too hard on yourself. As long as you learn from it and use it for the next encounters, it is a net gain. What happened with your startup btw?
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    Yeah encouraging more founders to hop on a flight to california.

wazoox 4y ago

Ah yeah, I remember that guy that was supposedly the investor's expert that we met right after lunch.Obviously his meal was copious and also helped with large servings of alcoholic beverage, so after 15 minutes of our explanations (we were sitting in front of him at his desk) he started snoring audibly with his head down on his chest... We looked at each other and waited for a solid minute before trying to wake him up with some gentle coughing.

daenz 4y ago

Sounds like a "shit test", as in "how much shit will these people take." It's a blunt way to understand if someone will be pushed around. I don't know if this was his purpose, but you don't want to invest in someone who will get pushed around and taken advantage of.

rpastuszak 4y ago
Hehe, that's such a macho way of thinking. I have a little tingling sensation that we could use more women in positions of power in tech. We might benefit from slightly different ways of thinking about working with fellow human beings. (In case that wasn't clear, I agree with your point. I'm just a bit sad about the language and mindset you're describing!)
- daenz 4y ago
  >Hehe, that's such a macho way of thinking. I have a little tingling sensation that we could use more women in positions of power in tech. If you look up the origin of the phrase "shit test", you will find a lot of irony in this statement :)
  - rpastuszak 4y ago
    Yes, I knew about it when I wrote the comment. I guess men are just better at this!
  - bGl2YW5j 4y ago
    The majority of references I could find were on Urban Dictionary and other ‘how to not be a beta’ type sites. Hardly reputable sources or places that stand up for women.
- GeorgeWBasic 4y ago
  You think women don't do shit tests?
walrus01 4y ago
you also don't want to take investment money from the sort of VC egotist who thinks running a "shit test" is a standard operating procedure. treat people with respect or just don't schedule the meeting at all in the first place.

ergocoder 4y ago

The wording is a bit confrontational. I'd just ask if this is a good time. Otherwise, we can reschedule. Then, I can decide later whether I will actually reschedule. It is never a good idea to add shading like that.

throwaway_1928 4y ago
Or not confrontational enough.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
I dont think it is shade, it is direct and to the point.
saila 4y ago
The advice to not add "shade" seems to be predicated on some perceived power differential, but everyone's time is equally valuable. Regardless, I don't see any shade. It's just direct and to the point.
- ergocoder 4y ago
  "Shade" is subjective. It is better to ensure there is no shade at all. > perceived power differential Not really. It is game theory. You earn nothing by throwing shade apart from emotional satisfaction. It is only beneficial to go above and beyond to ensure nobody feels any shade to anybody. You never what you will need in the future. > everyone's time is equally valuable Trying to repeat a tautological statement is a shade, IMO.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Game theory without taking human memory and emotion is flawed. If you never see the person again and you've held your head high you will feel more confident. If you play game theory the emotional damage might haunt your next interview.
    - 4y ago